[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

• Added Swap Hero. This cannot be used after creeps spawn or in SD. Accessible via right click on heroes in the scoreboard.

Took them long enough. Too bad it's disabled in -sd, I'll never play that mode.

Yeah, I have no idea why they removed swap from SD. It's about the only mode where I'd consider it even marginally useful, besides maybe RD. I guess it could have use in AP but that implies teamwork and picking heroes to counter/prevent combos on the enemy and... haha, like that ever fucking happens in pubs.

[Ultraviolet Harmonies]

Yeah, I have no idea why they removed swap from SD. It's about the only mode where I'd consider it even marginally useful, besides maybe RD. I guess it could have use in AP but that implies teamwork and picking heroes to counter/prevent combos on the enemy and... haha, like that ever fucking happens in pubs.

When playing with friends we can now win even if they random Nevermore.

[PizzaSHARK]

First game of the night, waited ~10 minutes before the game actually started, five games in a row went to 9/10 before someone bailed. SD, get Sven to pair with our instalock VS, we both go bot and their Clinkz gives VS first blood at 00:08. Comes back to lane, dies again about ten seconds later, and then immediately abandons.

By time the 5 minute timer is up the score's 3-5 so they actually weren't doing too badly (their mid solo Bane ganked our solo top Naix twice and I can't remember where the third kill was) once that feeder Clinkz left, but their Tiny bails out anyway, no way they can win a 3v5.

Christ, why is it so hard to find decent games? Either we get stomped or they get stomped, never an even game.

Dunno, they did kind of get screwed on picks. They had good heroes but nothing that synergized like Ursa+Naix (Open Wounds, gz Ursa heals to full and instagibs whoever Naix snared) or VS+Sven (free guaranteed first blood.) SD's like that, I guess.

[Lysah]

The weird part is MMR puts trash(according to lysah) to page 16. Page 16 means you have more than average MMR because I hardly ever see less then 400 pages. In fact, page 16 is a very good position.

When I play, the difference between page 2/3 and 16 is a decent game versus a 36-3 stomp. Page 2/3 just means EVERYONE is high MMR, page 16 means my team is probably way, way below me and I'm massively bringing up the average, prepare for either a huge stomp by them crushing my teammates or a huge stomp by me crushing their teammates.

I mean, it's just mathematics at this point.

[PizzaSHARK]

When I play, the difference between page 2/3 and 16 is a decent game versus a 36-3 stomp. Page 2/3 just means EVERYONE is high MMR, page 16 means my team is probably way, way below me and I'm massively bringing up the average, prepare for either a huge stomp by them crushing my teammates or a huge stomp by me crushing their teammates.

I mean, it's just mathematics at this point.

That's what it seems like a lot of my games are like - there's one, maybe two competent players on each team and the rest are a bunch of idiots and whoever has fewer idiots usually wins, and usually wins big.

I wonder if it'll improve any once DotA 2 goes public release.

[Kurdiern]

That's what it seems like a lot of my games are like - there's one, maybe two competent players on each team and the rest are a bunch of idiots and whoever has fewer idiots usually wins, and usually wins big.

I wonder if it'll improve any once DotA 2 goes public release.

Pretty sure that's every MOBA game. Once it get's past 20 minutes, it's a throwing contest for both sides.

[Deleted]

That's what it seems like a lot of my games are like - there's one, maybe two competent players on each team and the rest are a bunch of idiots and whoever has fewer idiots usually wins, and usually wins big.

Define 'idiots'. Are idiots people who are doing bad, miss a few skillshots and get ganked several times by this horrible stealth hero? Or are idiots those people who scream ''IM GONA AFK AT FOUNTAIN, GOOD LUCK NOOBS LOL'' if their lane partner dies once?

If it's the latter, it'll get resolved when you reach a higher matchmaking value. The better you get the better people you are being grouped with, and also the more people who actually want to play the game and put some afford in. The first however is a different cookie.

Watching your team member miss an to you very obvious Pudge hook is very frustrating, that thing should have been easy to land and that idiot just messed it up! But maybe he was expecting the hook to get juked, maybe he tried to throw it into your opponent's path, or maybe he wasn't expecting his support to run infront of that obvious hook. I too sometimes watch one of my older replays and see myself miss an extremely obvious Impale as Nyx for example. I look like a total retard in that clip, but what went through my mind at that time was that I tried landing it on the opponent's support and carry for example, instead of missing the carry and only landing the support this time. Things happen, and things don't always go as planned.

It's also very, very difficult to come back from a lane where you as a support are being ganked several times by this Riki and Vengeful Spirit. You're not getting the gold to buy wards or dust, you can't see it coming, and they will just dive you far under the tower. Your options are being an idiot and getting ganked over and over, or being an idiot and leeching experience from your other lanes. Both of those options, as you guessed it, will result in you looking like an idiot.

You can't cure people being stupid, but don't forget you're not playing against bots. You're playing against other people who are roughly as good as you are. What would you do if you're a fed carry and you see that low level support walk around on low health? I know what I would do, I would dive the hell out of him and grab my early midgame items.


I hope this got my point across since English is not my main language. But sadly the horrible community will never be cured, welcome to moba games.

[Duronos]

So I played a game and I actually did with the exception of early stages I was the "fuck you" player where I was so bad you could say that to me without giving a shit. I picked it up towards mid game... I actually didn't like it to much and we won, it just felt far to slow for me and I do have MOBA experience and I picked it pretty fast after the early game.

Is it just me or is CS extremely important in this game? That actually wasn't a problem, I think the problem for me was how the game naturally felt and my brother also felt the same way about it. I does feel kind of slow and a bit non-responsive sometimes but that is just my opinion, they really did well and I know others such as you guys in the thread love it and I respect that but for now it's not my cake from a cake shop. I'll give it a few more tries though.

[Ultraviolet Harmonies]

Is it just me or is CS extremely important in this game? That actually wasn't a problem, I think the problem for me was how the game naturally felt and my brother also felt the same way about it. I does feel kind of slow and a bit non-responsive sometimes but that is just my opinion, they really did well and I know others such as you guys in the thread love it and I respect that but for now it's not my cake from a cake shop. I'll give it a few more tries though.

Gold is incredibly important for certain heroes. Even more important is to spend it correctly. Using the forest correctly for creep pulling, stacking ancients and large creep camps to maximize farm and learning not to block the spawns takes a lot of practice. More experienced players tend to spend less time farming and more time roaming the map for kills.

What you're feeling is turnspeed, and a larger map. Coming from LoL with no prior DotA-experience, I'd wager it'd take you five-six games before you get a jist of it. I've never played League of Legends at a very high level (I was 1600 something?), so I can't really compare the two games. I can promise you one thing however: stick with it, and you'll have a blast. In a while.

[hailey]

As far as I'm concerned dota 2 match making is just one of the inexplicable mysteries of life. You'll get people who it seems have never played the game in their lives (but have 300 wins somehow) and you'll get competent people who know how to play, their role in the game, your role in the game, etc. Sometimes both teams will have those people and it will be a good game.

You just have to roll with it. The bad players are usually the least receptive to advice. It sounds cynical but if I see something flat out stupid in the first 5-10 minutes I mentally check out of the game. It's not worth it. I used to try to offer advice or suggestions, but maybe two people in 500 games have done anything but act passive-aggressive if not flat out abusive in response. Then I became the bitter player throwing out insults. Now I just set some fun goal to occupy my time like having a higher cs than my entire team, or just doing the best I can. There's a feeling of hopelessness to it all, that players that are so bad they basically ruin games will probably never improve.

That said there's also people who just plain have bad games, everyone has them. Sometimes luck doesn't go your way and when you could be 4-0 you're 0-4.

[Duronos]

Gold is incredibly important for certain heroes. Even more important is to spend it correctly. Using the forest correctly for creep pulling, stacking ancients and large creep camps to maximize farm and learning not to block the spawns takes a lot of practice. More experienced players tend to spend less time farming and more time roaming the map for kills.

What you're feeling is turnspeed, and a larger map. Coming from LoL with no prior DotA-experience, I'd wager it'd take you five-six games before you get a jist of it. I've never played League of Legends at a very high level (I was 1600 something?), so I can't really compare the two games. I can promise you one thing however: stick with it, and you'll have a blast. In a while.

I thought it was that, is there also a way to make the HUD smaller, I mean jesus it's right in my face. I was playing Riki and is it just me but is stealth OP?

[Deleted]

I thought it was that, is there also a way to make the HUD smaller, I mean jesus it's right in my face. I was playing Riki and is it just me but is stealth OP?

Stealth is an incredibly strong mechanic at lower MMRs because nobody's going to do the sensible thing and:
Pick Slardar.
Get dust.
Get gem.
Or drop a single ward.

[conceit2]

So I played a game and I actually did with the exception of early stages I was the "fuck you" player where I was so bad you could say that to me without giving a shit. I picked it up towards mid game... I actually didn't like it to much and we won, it just felt far to slow for me and I do have MOBA experience and I picked it pretty fast after the early game.

Is it just me or is CS extremely important in this game? That actually wasn't a problem, I think the problem for me was how the game naturally felt and my brother also felt the same way about it. I does feel kind of slow and a bit non-responsive sometimes but that is just my opinion, they really did well and I know others such as you guys in the thread love it and I respect that but for now it's not my cake from a cake shop. I'll give it a few more tries though.

What hero were you playing? A lot of heroes have intentional delay on their skills, which might be why you experience the game as slow paced/non responsive.

[Deleted]

What hero were you playing? A lot of heroes have intentional delay on their skills, which might be why you experience the game as slow paced/non responsive.

Why does they have intentional delay? I hate it. What heroes don't have that delay?

[hailey]

Different heroes have different attack speeds, animations etc. Also different cast times, some things are instant, some have a cast time that people incorrectly attribute to lag or delay. It's intentional and it's not for everyone. It definitely makes the game harder, for instance trying to use raze on shadow fiend is far more difficult in dota than in HoN, which had increased (if not entirely homogenized) turn speeds and animations. Leshrac's stun is harder to land than Torturers, same with Lina, etc etc. It's a game of timing and execution as much as it is action. Mastering these things is the difference between a good player and a great one.

[Deleted]

Why does they have intentional delay? I hate it. What heroes don't have that delay?

DotA 2 is a direct port from the DotA mod from Warcraft 3. The Warcraft 3 engine simply couldn't handle certain things and some of these delays became 'normal' for certain heroes. It's a bit hard to explain. Some abilities are also intentionally 'slow' because they would be too strong if they didn't like Earthshaker's Fissure.

I can't really answer your second question to be honest. I know plenty of heroes that to me personally feel extremely responsive and instant, whether other people experience that as well is something I don't know.

[PizzaSHARK]

Why does they have intentional delay? I hate it. What heroes don't have that delay?

Balance. Initially it was due to limitations with the War3 engine, but because the game has become designed around Omniknight taking a year to cast that Repel or Earthshaker needing a month to pop off that Fissure, it's now a matter of game balance.

[Kuntantee]

Balance. Initially it was due to limitations with the War3 engine, but because the game has become designed around Omniknight taking a year to cast that Repel or Earthshaker needing a month to pop off that Fissure, it's now a matter of game balance.

It's a design choice rather than balance. You can make all spells have no casting delay at the same time make the game balanced. But that's not what the discussion is about. There is a built-in input delay, mind you not casting delay(which increases the skill cap of the game btw) and that, again, has nothing to do with balance. I think it's just the way it is because of wc3 engine or design choice of valve for some reason we don't know.

[Deleted]

Why does they have intentional delay? I hate it. What heroes don't have that delay?

As far as heroes without delay, it depends. If we want to say overall, both spell and attack I'd say Sniper mostly because the spell animation isn't going to be encountered that often and the attack one is nearly instantaneous. Invoker has no spell delay. Tiny and Rubick a very short one. I'm not sure just how good Pudge's is but I think it flows very well for him. As for people with short attack animations, Gyro and Sniper come to mind and after that I think it all starts to enter "upper average" like Veno.

[Lysah]

Attack animation is important. It allows for more skill based game play - you can dodge people's attacks as you see them casting. Furthermore, you can also fake cast. If everything is instant cast people just blow everything all at once and whoever has more gold wins.