[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

As far as heroes without delay, it depends. If we want to say overall, both spell and attack I'd say Sniper mostly because the spell animation isn't going to be encountered that often and the attack one is nearly instantaneous. Invoker has no spell delay. Tiny and Rubick a very short one. I'm not sure just how good Pudge's is but I think it flows very well for him. As for people with short attack animations, Gyro and Sniper come to mind and after that I think it all starts to enter "upper average" like Veno.

Bane has one of the best ranged attack animations, plus great base damage. Him and SD are a breeze to last hit on.

[Lysah]

Leshrac > rest

[Deleted]

DotA 2 is a direct port from the DotA mod from Warcraft 3. The Warcraft 3 engine simply couldn't handle certain things and some of these delays became 'normal' for certain heroes. It's a bit hard to explain. Some abilities are also intentionally 'slow' because they would be too strong if they didn't like Earthshaker's Fissure.

I can't really answer your second question to be honest. I know plenty of heroes that to me personally feel extremely responsive and instant, whether other people experience that as well is something I don't know.

Oh okay didn't know that. I don't remember any delay on DOTA1 but it was really long time ago i was playing it.

[PizzaSHARK]

Leshrac > rest

Haven't played him much, Rubick 2 gud.

[Lysah]

Haven't played him much, Rubick 2 gud.

No wai, Leshrac is one of...one heroes with four nukes? All of them AoE as well, PLUS he has a fast base movespeed, 600 range, and a decently fast animation. He's int carry on steroids, edict alone can kill a tower in one creep wave or do like 900 damage to a single hero. And building into lightning storm at low level can force just about anyone out of lane...and he doesn't even give Rubick a good spell to steal :x

[Deleted]

Did anyone watch coL vs. CLG yesterday?

That CLG Rubick play made me all warm and fuzzy inside... Too bad Misery threw game 3 hard after that.

[PizzaSHARK]

No wai, Leshrac is one of...one heroes with four nukes? All of them AoE as well, PLUS he has a fast base movespeed, 600 range, and a decently fast animation. He's int carry on steroids, edict alone can kill a tower in one creep wave or do like 900 damage to a single hero. And building into lightning storm at low level can force just about anyone out of lane...and he doesn't even give Rubick a good spell to steal :x

wat

Rubick's amazing with any of Lesh's abilities, Split Earth without the 2 year cast animation is OP as fuck.

Rubick can have 492 move speed with Tranquil Boots + Drums + Eul's, ridiculous for positioning, and add either Bottle or Soul Ring and you never run out of mana. Burrowstrike in, Track the target you're gonna kill, cyclone/ghost scepter when they try to kill you, and run around and basically be a dick to them all game. Fade Bolt pushes the fuck out of lanes giving him fairly decent rune control, though since he lacks a blink or ms steroid without stealing one he's not the best at rune control, but Rubick's really good at controlling creep wave positioning. -32 damage at the 15-20 minute range also pretty much takes carries out of the fight, and +20 MR for his team in the 20-30 minute range really hurts any kind of nuke-based hero, especially ones that rely on burst like Lion/Lina/QoP. Rubick's OP as fuck once you figure out how to play him.

But yeah, Lesh is really good, which is why he's so common in pro, but Rubick's becoming increasingly common now that EU teams figured out what the CN teams already knew. I was excited to see PB run Dragon Knight in their last game vs Mouz - maybe EU teams are also becoming aware of how good DK is (like a Chaos Knight, but better.)

Lesh+Sand King lane is ridiculously good. Rubick's one of the only heroes that's effective against both heroes once laning phase ends. Lesh+SK will farm pretty much any lane, but once laning phase ends Rubick will spend the rest of the game dicking them.

[Lysah]

Meh, people will figure out how easy it is to stop Rubick from getting a useful spell eventually as well.

[PizzaSHARK]

Meh, people will figure out how easy it is to stop Rubick from getting a useful spell eventually as well.

The only way to do that is to put 1 point into a skill and ignore it, but that's potentially screwing yourself in order to only potentially hurt Rubick. Level 1 Anchor Smash is worthless, but good luck getting decent farm on Tide in an even game without it being maxed. Level 1 Lightning ain't worth squat, but you're delaying a third point in Edict or a second point in Split Earth to get it, and it's not a guarantee you'll prevent Rubick from stealing something.

Sandstorm is still useful, Meld is still useful, etc etc etc. Playing Rubick is about knowing how to maximize what you've got, not completely relying on getting a specific spell. You pick Rubick because he really hurts the effectiveness of nukers in the midgame and basically makes Veil of Discord a waste of money (eat a dick, Sand King), and because he's amazingly versatile. He can be laned anywhere, solo or duo or triple, can be played as a semi-carry or a support, he has a disable that can reposition enemies, a chain lightning that significantly reduces attack damage, and I'd say one of the best friendly auras in the game. He also benefits from a wide variety of items. Haven't tried an INT carry build like with Orchid yet, but maybe I'll try it sometime for shits and giggles, I doubt it'd work though.

The big thing with Rubick is learning how to use whatever you can steal even if it's not what you wanted. Ravage is pretty fancy but if you got Anchor Smash, go farm the fuck out of some creep waves instead, or run in and watch the enemy carry be useless for 6 seconds with a Fade Bolt + Anchor Smash combo. Steal Conversions and eat a tower or a jungle, or go combo Malefice with TK and get a guaranteed kill on someone.

The reason Rubick's OP is because of the extreme versatility his ulti gives him, and because of how it interacts with his existing skills (one is a great pushing skill and decent nuke, the other is a fantastic disable) and his nearly nonexistent cast animation. Rubick with a skill that's usually balanced out by being on a hero with no AOE abilities (Bane) or with an awful cast animation (Leshrac, Omniknight, Earthshaker) is terrifying because he's using that same prized skill without the constraints it's usually placed under.

EDIT: I do think the early EU attempts at using Rubick were piss awful. You don't build Rubick with BKB+Blink and just assume you'll steal Black Hole and get to pretend you're Enigma, you build Rubick with good general use items and just expect the Black Hole to get canceled early. I've been building him like I do CM and it's been working really good. Running around at 492 base move speed (472 for CM) is fucking hilarious.

[Deleted]

wat
I was excited to see PB run Dragon Knight in their last game vs Mouz - maybe EU teams are also becoming aware of how good DK is (like a Chaos Knight, but better.)

CLG ran a DK versus Complexity yesterday and stomped them, even though DK had a rough start against a trilane. I think DK is indeed on the rise in western dota.

[PizzaSHARK]

CLG ran a DK versus Complexity yesterday and stomped them, even though DK had a rough start against a trilane. I think DK is indeed on the rise in western dota.

Yeah, PB ran DK vs Mouz and while they lost that game, DK made a pretty sizable impact despite literally getting fountain dived at 4 minutes in and having to buy Bottle just to survive.

DK's one of those underplayed heroes that people seem to underestimate. He can max Q early for fast farm or max E early if he's up against a hard lane. His stun starts with a fantastic 2.5 sec duration right away so it doesn't even need to be skilled until after his other shit. Level 6 ulti makes him really good vs towers and level 11/16 ulti let him farm stacked ancients for very easy XP/gold. Once he finishes Satanic and BKB he's virtually immortal due to the fact that he steals life from everything his splash attacks hit. Pop Satanic, heal 70% of your HP in 3.5 sec.

Oh, and his stun's one of the best disables in the game with very high uptime - 3.25 sec duration on 9 sec cd, about 36% uptime. It's melee so it sucks for initiating but it's godly when it's part of a chain of disables, and his ulti gives it a modest range.

Usually you see DK farm when ulti is down and force teamfights when ulti is available. Pop ulti, pop BKB, fly in and just tank the fuck out of everything while basically invalidating one of the enemy team's heroes with your stun. Preventing him from farming stacked ancients is pretty crucial because it's how he gets that 25 minute Satanic and two level XP advantage.

[Hermanni]

DK was a top pick in western dota 5 months ago.

[Lysah]

His ult is pretty much always available...it has like 60% or something uptime if he spams it on cooldown?

But yeah, the stacked ancient is predictable play from a DK. Of course, this can also make for some interesting team fights in that area :x

I like the guy, but he's a little too hard carry for me.

[PenguinChan]

Maybe this is just me, but Zeus and his short cast ranges and god awful auto attack animation makes me sad for his playability outside of bots.

[PizzaSHARK]

His ult is pretty much always available...it has like 60% or something uptime if he spams it on cooldown?

But yeah, the stacked ancient is predictable play from a DK. Of course, this can also make for some interesting team fights in that area :x

I like the guy, but he's a little too hard carry for me.

Still waiting for the day Doomy walks up and randomly kills three people before going back to snacking on creeps.

---------- Post added 2012-08-11 at 03:45 AM ----------

Maybe this is just me, but Zeus and his short cast ranges and god awful auto attack animation makes me sad for his playability outside of bots.

Intentional. Zeus is a really strong nuker, you're supposed to largely use Arc Lightning for last hitting. Short cast range is necessary because of how good his spells are. Lightning Bolt provides 3 sec of true sight in a 900 AOE (roughly equivalent to vertical screen width.)

[PenguinChan]

Intentional. Zeus is a really strong nuker, you're supposed to largely use Arc Lightning for last hitting. Short cast range is necessary because of how good his spells are. Lightning Bolt provides 9 sec of true sight in a 900 AOE (roughly equivalent to vertical screen width.)

It's still annoying having that irritating auto-attack timer though.

EDIT: I do understand (To some degree) about the cast ranges. Maybe I'm just spoiled and love long ranges.

[Lysah]

Still waiting for the day Doomy walks up and randomly kills three people before going back to snacking on creeps.[COLOR="red"]

Wait until the rest of the STR lineup is released.

Besides, Lucifer can easily out DPS DK on single target. And if you're standing in a group of five when he's in elder form you deserve the deaths.

[Hermanni]

Can't agree with you this time Manni. I really don't have bad games and I don't make mistakes. As arrogant as that sounds, there are a lot of people (well, maybe not a lot) like me. The number of times I have lost and it has been at all my fault can be counted on one hand in the past 1000 games...I can think of twice, and both times I randomed Necrolyte. I really hate that hero now, he's just weak as piss =/

I don't know what to tell you, I can't really convince you without knowing the MMR rating of everyone I play with. However, if you want to duo queue with me I can guarantee with almost complete certainty that we will get at least one ally who goes 0-8 on his own.

I can take that deal, even if just to see flawless play. I wasn't really talking about game-losing mistakes though and I can only remember one recent such mistake from myself (and that was more myself giving the other team a chance on purpose.)

[Alraml]

Potmbtm are tearing shit up lately

[Kuntantee]

Potmbtm are tearing shit up lately

They are very good for sure but what I noticed that when you ban their fav. hero, they are not that effective.