1. #2381
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvayra View Post
    If the stats are not recorded people will make 4 man teams with a 5th being a throw-away account (game is f2p) and if they lose they make the 5th abandon so they wont get a lose and voila, people with 100% win rate

    As for staying and fighting 4vs5 i used to do that until i figured if i leave and lose the game after 10-15 minutes it should be way better then staying and losing it after 50-60
    The only saving grace is that when the first person abandons everyone else can bail out without consequence. If wins and losses meant anything, I could understand not wanting to get pegged with a loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  2. #2382
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Saw an interesting idea on Reddit. Instead of being 24 hour blocks, low priority for reports/abandons would be per-game, and you would be required to play a full game, from beginning to completion. So instead of just doing something else for 24 hours, you have to play two or three or five or eight or however many full-length low priority games.

    I still haven't seen a good answer towards doing something about grouped people chain reporting you just because they can, though.
    I already had that idea a long time ago D=

    DC/abandon and get hours played/games played debuff rather than just time elapsed. A real penalty you can't just wait off and have no way of getting around. They only risk people afking through the debuff games, but they can just flat out ban people who try to get around punishments like that.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-08-23 at 02:10 PM.
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  3. #2383
    Pandaren Monk
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    I used to play Doomy as nuker support, and now I realize that its not as good of a build as Devour/Scorched Earth. With Phase boots and scorched earth, people can't really outrun you, and devour+easy farming hero = quick radiance, especially if you get in some good ganks on Doom's lane. Radiance and Scorched earth give a TON of early dps and he can pick up crit from eating a creep. I almost don't even level LVL death anymore. It's too unreliable. Yeah, there are sometimes where its like a 500 damage nuke, but a lot of the time it is a mediocre one, and its a lot of wasted carry potential. Though, because of his lack of armor I usually pick up a medallion or an early chainmail to make into a blademail, because he is squishy as all hell. (like 0 base armor...)

  4. #2384
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I used to play Doomy as nuker support, and now I realize that its not as good of a build as Devour/Scorched Earth. With Phase boots and scorched earth, people can't really outrun you, and devour+easy farming hero = quick radiance, especially if you get in some good ganks on Doom's lane. Radiance and Scorched earth give a TON of early dps and he can pick up crit from eating a creep. I almost don't even level LVL death anymore. It's too unreliable. Yeah, there are sometimes where its like a 500 damage nuke, but a lot of the time it is a mediocre one, and its a lot of wasted carry potential. Though, because of his lack of armor I usually pick up a medallion or an early chainmail to make into a blademail, because he is squishy as all hell. (like 0 base armor...)
    Try armlet. Insane survivability if you can double tap it and it gives you health/armor/damage/some speed. All around great item for any strength hero to be honest.
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  5. #2385
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    Yeah I've actually been randomed Alchemist twice in the past 2 days (I've started randoming every game). One of my friends is convinced he is the worst hero in the game because of the way his stun can backfire, and I'm sure I've already talked about it in this thread. I was actually thinking that armlet is probably ridiculous on him, considering his ult gives a shit ton of health and health regen. I'm thinking from now on I'll probably go Armlet - Vlads - Halberd/Basher on him. I really like how good of a farming hero he is, and how good Acid Spray is. It does suck that his stun can backfire so easily (any long duration silence kinda shits on you) but eh, his other skills are really strong in my opinion.

  6. #2386
    Get blink or lothar's as with any other positional hero. Both give you the ability to guarantee your stun hits something.

    Alch also meshes really with with attack speed and bash, you can get his level 3 ultimate down to .3 attack speed which will pretty much stunlock anything. Alchemist can take on carries easily, people who think he's bad are bad. He can pull two or thee jungle camps at once and clear them all instantly and farm lanes from extreme range and safety...really can't stop a good Alch player from getting items and he is scary once he has them. Alch mid > radiance > tank used to be quite common.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-08-23 at 08:58 PM.
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  7. #2387
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Get blink or lothar's as with any other positional hero. Both give you the ability to guarantee your stun hits something.

    Alch also meshes really with with attack speed and bash, you can get his level 3 ultimate down to .3 attack speed which will pretty much stunlock anything. Alchemist can take on carries easily, people who think he's bad are bad. He can pull two or thee jungle camps at once and clear them all instantly and farm lanes from extreme range and safety...really can't stop a good Alch player from getting items and he is scary once he has them. Alch mid > radiance > tank used to be quite common.
    I'd really like to learn Alch, simply for the reasons you stated- though on dota fire the builds don't actually "prioritize" acid. The top rated build has it as one of the last ability (before stats) to be maxed. With what your saying I'm infering a build of something like:
    q is acid
    w is stun
    e is greed
    r is Chem Rage.

    1-6 - q/w/e/qq (or q/w)/r
    7-11 - w(q)/q(w)/ww/e/r
    12-16- e/e/e(stats)/stats(e)/r

  8. #2388
    QWEQQRQWWW>stats/r
    Points in E aren't really necessary as long as you don't stop farming, which you pretty much won't. With soul ring/your ult you pretty much never have to go to base. Win or lose a skirmish? Meh, go acid two camps and pull a third in with your ult on and keep farming.
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  9. #2389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Get blink or lothar's as with any other positional hero. Both give you the ability to guarantee your stun hits something.

    Alch also meshes really with with attack speed and bash, you can get his level 3 ultimate down to .3 attack speed which will pretty much stunlock anything. Alchemist can take on carries easily, people who think he's bad are bad. He can pull two or thee jungle camps at once and clear them all instantly and farm lanes from extreme range and safety...really can't stop a good Alch player from getting items and he is scary once he has them. Alch mid > radiance > tank used to be quite common.
    Is the problem with stun really positioning though? Most of the problems I've encountered (back when I played, it was a channeled stun, so this is all somewhat new to me) were getting long duration silenced or stunlocked like a second into the countdown and not being able to get it off. Maybe its just because heroes like drow or Bloodseeker are really good at shutting his stun down, but thats what I've noticed.

    The last game I played as him I got Mjollnir, Abyssal Blade, Phase boots, and was working towards a Halberd. (They had a drow and jugg carrying. Was trying to stunlock Jugg and disarm her.) His stun is amazign for chasing, but it seems like if you start casting, and Tidehunter blinks in and ults, you kinda just get screwed and nuke yourself if you can't get it off in time. I did lane with a buddy who was Tide though, and let me tell you, one of the funniest lanes ever.

    It was me and him top against Brood solo lane, who rushed a soul ring to spam spiders. This brood must not have realized every spider gives a tick of goblins greed, and that even invisible they take damage from acid. I had like 4 minute phase boots because Tide used his first 200g on sentries, and we gush/acid combo'd brood to death and I killed every single one of her like 10 spiders, plus 2.5 creepwaves, and got the kill on her. Stopping an early game push gives him so much money. Acid makes farming SO easy, especially with a quelling blade, and he is so good against any hard pusher hero like Prophet or Brood. I love how much gold he gets and how well he scales, because of his ult's attack speed increase. A very fun hero, but is Lothar's really worth it just to try and get stuns off? I figured the problem was team comps. For instance, if we had a great initiator, I coulda thrown the stun during the initial chaos of them all running from SK/being stunned by Tide/etc.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-08-23 at 11:33 PM.

  10. #2390
    High Overlord Ultraviolet Harmonies's Avatar
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    They just made stats.dota2.be that much better - The records tab was to me the most interesting one: https://dotabuff.com/players/63677503/records

  11. #2391
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultraviolet Harmonies View Post
    They just made stats.dota2.be that much better - The records tab was to me the most interesting one: https://dotabuff.com/players/63677503/records
    Too bad it's only for the last month or so for now.

    Edit: http://dotaholic.com has pretty nice coverage of your stats too.
    Last edited by eemuman; 2012-08-24 at 02:57 AM.

  12. #2392
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Try armlet. Insane survivability if you can double tap it and it gives you health/armor/damage/some speed. All around great item for any strength hero to be honest.
    Best part is that it builds from Helm of Iron Will, which is fairly cost-efficient and can be purchased from the side shop. You can build Helm of the Dominator with the helmet, disassemble it after you steal a creep and use it to stack ancients/get a kill with it, and then use the Morbid Mask to build Vlad's later, too.



    Some guy on Reddit was basically doing the Dota equivalent of armory trolling me because I told him Eul's is a core item on AA. It's reasonably priced at 2800 gold and provides everything AA needs besides health; mana, mana regen, a way to guarantee Cold Feet procs, and movement speed for positioning.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 03:44 AM ----------

    More hilarity from Reddit that a buddy linked to me:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen..._skilled_game/

    The main link is to https://dotabuff.com/matches/35184660

    Basically, the guy playing Anti-Mage queued with two of his clanmates - said it's a "very high" skill game - and they lost the game. Despite making some pretty horrible mistakes (30 CS at 17 mins, damage items instead of Perseverance first for bfury, getting bfury instead of vanguard in a difficult game), he pretty much tries to make everything out to be the fault of the two pubs, ES and AA.

    People on Reddit call him out on his behavior and he runs from the thread he made like his feet are on fire and he's afraid his ass is catching.

    Before he left he did make a response saying that the lanes were ES+AA top versus PA+Rhasta, SD+AM mid versus Invoker+KOTL, and PL solo bot versus solo bot Axe.

    Soloing any melee hero versus Axe is probably a bad idea, so that obviously means PL is going to lose his lane. But why would you run ES and AA together in a lane? Though, really, if it was an AP game (assuming it was), why would you pick AM and PL in the first place? If they'd have picked Lycan or Enigma (or maybe even Profit), it'd basically be a guaranteed win against the enemy team's lineup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  13. #2393
    AA is my most played hero and i rarely buy cyclone
    force staff is so much better overall

  14. #2394
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    AA is my most played hero and i rarely buy cyclone
    force staff is so much better overall
    How so? Eul's is as much for the stats as it is for the activated. Only reason I could see getting a Force Staff instead is if you need to spike someone away from like an Ursa or something, or the enemy team had a disruptor/clockwerk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  15. #2395
    because force staff is always good choice
    euls is situational
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-08-24 at 10:26 AM.

  16. #2396
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    because force staff is ALWAYS good choice
    euls is situational
    Situational how? It guarantees a 3.5 sec stun following the 2.5 sec cyclone, it can be used as a 2.5 sec self-disruption to dodge any number of things, and it has a wonderful array of stats. It IS a little pricey for a hero that's usually a 4 or 5 at 2800 gold, but AA tends to rake in a lot of assists due to his W and his ulti.

    I agree that Eul's is situational on most heroes, but it feels like it should be core on AA in every situation unless you absolutely must have the Force Staff first. Ideally you get both, but I'm guessing that might not be possible in games that end in 35 mins or don't have a lot of assists for you to milk money out of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  17. #2397
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Situational how? It guarantees a 3.5 sec stun following the 2.5 sec cyclone, it can be used as a 2.5 sec self-disruption to dodge any number of things, and it has a wonderful array of stats. It IS a little pricey for a hero that's usually a 4 or 5 at 2800 gold, but AA tends to rake in a lot of assists due to his W and his ulti.

    I agree that Eul's is situational on most heroes, but it feels like it should be core on AA in every situation unless you absolutely must have the Force Staff first. Ideally you get both, but I'm guessing that might not be possible in games that end in 35 mins or don't have a lot of assists for you to milk money out of.
    Euls + Cold Feet can be dodged by a multitude of things, and often cycloning a target just because you want to do the wombo combo will just slow your team down. If you lack disables in your team and your enemies can't easily escape it, it's good, but it's just not always the best choice.

    Also, in dota assist gold is based on proximity with a few exceptions. If an enemy dies near you, you will always get assist gold regardless of whether or not you contributed in any way. The assist stat tracker people sometimes blame for inaccuracy is there just for the purpose of tracking assists, it has no effect on your gold income and whether or not you're getting assist rewards.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  18. #2398
    stats: 10int same as force staff, mana regen is nice but force staff + sobi mask should should be sufficient, bonus MS is meh
    I like to stay behind my team to make it easier to land ult as "point blank" is hard to aim properly (also im always getting stuned after casting 1st projectile or im dead before i can even do it) and AA is soo squishy so going 1st to land cyclone cold feet combo is not a good idea

    its a decent item but as i said force staff is always good choice while i consider buying euls only when im getting good gpm to counter sand king ult (and similar aoe spells)
    or my team already bought more than 2 force staffs
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-08-24 at 11:19 AM.

  19. #2399
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Euls + Cold Feet can be dodged by a multitude of things, and often cycloning a target just because you want to do the wombo combo will just slow your team down. If you lack disables in your team and your enemies can't easily escape it, it's good, but it's just not always the best choice.
    Well, I'd assume that if you're planning on landing a CF stun and your team is present, someone else is going to be pitching in a disable to make sure CF procs, anyway. In that case you'd use Eul's to take the carry or whoever out of the fight, dispel certain buffs (apparently it removes Omni's ulti, among other things), or give yourself 2.5 sec of invincibility.

    On the other hand, I like that having Eul's basically guarantees about 6 full seconds of disables on a single target from a single person on the team. You do lose some damage, but Cold Feet's damage is piss-poor anyway (75 damage per sec for 4 sec, before MR) and I don't think I've ever used it for the damage portion rather than the potential stun. Depending on timing, they've got about 0.5-1.0 sec to move 740 units away from the initial CF point, which doesn't seem likely if you stacked your W in there for the slow and they don't have something like a blink or force staff to bail out.

    Also, in dota assist gold is based on proximity with a few exceptions. If an enemy dies near you, you will always get assist gold regardless of whether or not you contributed in any way. The assist stat tracker people sometimes blame for inaccuracy is there just for the purpose of tracking assists, it has no effect on your gold income and whether or not you're getting assist rewards.
    Makes sense. I know I've received gold for just being nearby when someone died; I guess that's because the assists tracker doesn't seem to count it as an assist unless you actually caused damage to them, so you'd have supports running around trying to get autohits in to ensure they get assist gold otherwise. Does causing damage to the target increase the amount of assist gold earned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    stats: 10int same as force staff, mana regen is nice but force staff + sobi mask should should be sufficient, bonus MS is meh
    I like to stay behind my team to make it easier to land ult as "point blank" is hard to aim properly (also im always getting stuned after casting 1st projectile or im dead before i can even do it) and AA is soo squishy so going 1st to land cyclone cold feet combo is not a good idea

    its a decent item but as i said force staff is always good choice while i consider buying euls only when im getting good gpm to counter sand king ult (and similar aoe spells)
    or my team already bought more than 2 force staffs
    Fair enough.

    I don't really consider the 30 ms to be negligible, though, and it's one of the reasons I'd actually call Eul's better than FS on AA unless your team really needs that FS. Combined with Tranquil Boots (my boots of choice for almost every ranged support except Windrunner and Shadow Demon), AA will float around at 405 ms, which is quite a bit more than most carries (who usually have Treads) and it's not often the boots break since AA has excellent range on all of his spells and thus can safely stay in the back.

    Obviously that extra ms won't do anything if you get jumped on, while FS might get you out, but at the same time, you can CF an enemy and then Eul's yourself, which gives your team 2.5 sec to at least get into position if they can't save you, and forces the enemy to either run quite a distance away to break the CF or eat a 3.5 sec stun.

    I can see where you're coming from, though.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-08-24 at 11:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  20. #2400
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    is Lothar's really worth it just to try and get stuns off?
    Yes. If you have a hard initiator you won't need it, but that's pretty much just TH right now. With that (or blink) you can use your stun on them from outside their CC range - getting bloodraged with your stun ticking down is definitely the start of a bad weekend, but these items resolve that issue. Lothar's also gives you damage and speed, but blink is nearly half the cost and will be a faster buy with a farm hero like Alch. I really hate blink dagger as an item, but I end up buying that about half of the time with Alch. That or Lothar's can really turn a game around, the amount of initiating power you have with just one single target stun can be surprising.


    As for AA, atos > euls
    Cyclone and your cold feet does zero damage. Atos accomplishes the same thing but they still lose 400 health in the process and are attackable the entire time. Atos also gives you health.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-08-24 at 02:16 PM.
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