Storm and Tinker can jungle nowadays maybe give them a try.
Storm and Tinker can jungle nowadays maybe give them a try.
Last edited by pierakor; 2012-09-04 at 11:13 AM.
Battle hunger is definitely absurdly strong, and let's not forget, with just a stout shield he can easily afford to run circles around you drawing creep aggro. The second you stop focusing on him to frantically try to last hit and clear hunger he's on top of you roflhelixing away and you're dead. Not to mention if you don't have a teleport scroll and he can get you to 200-300 health and hit you with another hunger you're also dead.
I still prefer him in the jungle, though, just for the virtually guaranteed gold/exp..it's easy to keep up with the solo lane in levels and ganking mid/side at 6 with hunger/culling can get a kill pretty much all the time. I'm not really sure what kind of team you would put Axe on, but he's not the blink/caller he used to be. Energy boots support Axe is definitely more his niche now...
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-04 at 11:15 AM.
Odd, he's probably one of the hardest carries out there, being able to kill 2-3 people within one chrono when he had farm.
I wouldn't say sniper is a hard carry though. Yes he's got the range, yes he can deal some damage, but he hasn't got any form of cc or an escape mechanism, which is why he's extremely squishy. Hard carries tend to have a proper escape mechanisms - void, spectre, morphling, PA, Magina - they all have got some sort of escape, while range carries do not, which is why melee are preferred.
Oh god how i love when you are on a ownage streak!
My last 3 games has gone like this:
Night Stalker 16/0/5
I am finally getting the hang of the speed after playing HoN since closed beta. I have played about 120 games in Dota2.
sniper can be squishy but this remains to be a team game. It's a minor issue that can be remedied through composition or strategies etc if need be. Many of these melee heroes often uses these escape mechanism to initiation as well, which does put them in further danger. In doing so, they operate within a window of time where they have no advantage. Furthermore, nothing is also to say there won't be situations where escape is not needed thus making increased range more advantageous.
I'm not at all saying sniper is the hardest carry and honestly used him as an example off a whim.
I'm disappointed in the beta of dota 2 played 2 weeks and i doesn't get me to play more and more so i quited.
His ulti is great at ensuring (in pubs, this is more like "stealing") kills and if he gets scepter, he can ulti a creep to give his team a 25% movespeed boost to help them position prior to and during fights.
You can't go wrong with Profit. We saw teams handle him well in TI2 but he's still easily a top-tier hero who is disgustingly strong when played properly, and who can fill virtually any role as long as it involves getting at least SOME farm.If it's true, which it likely is, then I'll have run out of junglers that I can play reliably. Any recommendations? I'm not fond of Enigma at all so he's out of the question.
Played a game as Mirana today where I split farm with Slardar in our lane, and things ended up pretty well. I usually play Mirana as a sort of semi-carry, getting Mjollnir instead of typical carry items. Dunno if it's ideal but it's fun.
Is there even a reason to put more than one point into Mirana's stun? Literally the only thing she gets with extra points is a fairly small amount of damage, and just putting points in stats would result in more total damage from attack speed, damage, and more mana for Starfall spam. Seems like Icefrog's next goal after getting Dota 2 "done" should be to sweep every hero and try and rebalance skills so that none of them are "one-point wonders" or have a situation like Dazzle's Q where putting a 4th point into the skill is effectively wasted.
I'm also wondering about redistributing skill allotments per-point so that some skills are top-heavy - where you get the most benefits from the 3rd and 4th points rather than the 1st or 2nd. Wouldn't mind there being more than one or two ways to build a hero, especially if the multiple ways can all be considered equally viable.
Max starfall first but arrow second if you're going for gank/damage. You leap into melee range of someone, facecheck them with arrow and get a melee range starfall off and you can win a duel against most heroes outright. Go farm supports who can't do a damn thing about the up front 700 damage + decent auto attacks/chase ability for gold.
As far as burst goes for duels/skirmishes leveling arrow is definitely worth it. I find going for max stuns unreliable anyway, even if you're good with skillshots it's pretty much luck once you start standing 2500 yards back, they have a solid five seconds to just step to the left and most people are always moving in lane anyway. Max damage on both nukes and you won't even need the stun for a successful gank anymore.
I would argue most/all heroes have multiple ways of being built. Even "simple" heroes like Leo/SB. Leoric might generally go stun/stats for early game, but I've built him aura/stun as lane support/semijungler to another melee hero before. SB can max his aura first for a more hyper carry farm style, or he can max his charge and get gold by ganking everyone on the map all the time. Juggernaut typically goes BF/stats, but I smashed a game going ward/BF and rushing orchid for storm spirit.
19/20 games you might go stun/BF + stats on leoric/juggernaut, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to play by any means. Not to bring other games into it...but there is much more diversity in DotA2 builds than, say, LoL =p
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-04 at 11:39 PM.
Most heroes seem to only have one or two "good" builds and everything else is pretty much garbage. Like with Veno, you can max W first or E first and each is viable, but maxing Q first is almost never viable, not even in a tri-lane setup. Likewise, there's literally no reason to get more than 3 points into Dazzle's Q - even just +2 stats is better than that 4th point. Likewise, Tree's invisibility really feels like it's best with just the 1 point. You get really long duration with extra points, but fade time, mana cost, and tree distance (how far you can stray from trees before it breaks) all remain constant, so most of the time I just put one point into it and just get stats instead.I would argue most/all heroes have multiple ways of being built. Even "simple" heroes like Leo/SB. Leoric might generally go stun/stats for early game, but I've built him aura/stun as lane support/semijungler to another melee hero before. SB can max his aura first for a more hyper carry farm style, or he can max his charge and get gold by ganking everyone on the map all the time. Juggernaut typically goes BF/stats, but I smashed a game going ward/BF and rushing orchid for storm spirit.
I'm also not a fan of some skills providing enormous benefits for just one point. PA's Blur (1800 gold worth of evasion for 1 point), things like that. Seems like they could be rearranged so that the first point (or first two points) provide less benefit per-point than the last two or last point.
Well, yeah, LoL's biggest pitfall is that there's no real depth to the game... items are all mostly passive so it's just a matter of calculating best gold-per-stat.19/20 games you might go stun/BF + stats on leoric/juggernaut, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to play by any means. Not to bring other games into it...but there is much more diversity in DotA2 builds than, say, LoL =p
Where's the balancing factor for Chaos Knight? I know he has mana issues early on but by time he's level 11 those are mostly eliminated through more stats and his team having arcanes, and he's so fucking strong once he starts taking his ulti. Free crit, he's a fantastic armlet user, almost impossible to escape from, and his ulti... man, just fuck his damn ulti. It seems like there's no real easy way of countering him because he's strong even when his ulti is down.
And how are you supposed to handle Morphling? He's so goddamned hard to gank without sending your entire team there, and if you do that... well, free lanes for the rest of his team, right?
Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-05 at 04:11 PM.
God I hate Morphling, playing him or being against him. When some one else on my team has him he's shit, but every time i'm against him hes one of the better plays on the enemy team. But blink heroes in general are difficult to gank, best counters are CC and/or Silence. I love Drow and usually when I play against a Morph I will favor a longer silence. ie: Frost/Aura (depending on the other heroes i'm with)>Silence x2> opposite of level 1>Silence>Ulty. After this I resume building normal- aura for damage and arrows for slow, though you can argue that at 10 and 15 to get stats and max frost arrow last, even going as far as up to 18 doing stats instead (getting ulty where applicable). Her slow won't be as strong but she will hit quite a bit harder than the standard build.
Most Drow builds I've seen max aura and silence and just put 1 point in arrows until everything else is done. Silence is basically the only reason to take Drow over almost any other ranged carry (Clinkz is usually taken otherwise, since Orchid is standard on him) and her silence is pretty good.
Morphling is just impossible to gank because his stat swap skill is overpowered as hell. Using it through disables is fine, but it converts so much agility to strength and for fairly low mana that even if you can silence him to prevent the waveform out, he can tank two players almost indefinitely until he can waveform away. If it's an entire team, he can still probably stay alive for a good four or five seconds; he might die, but he can probably last long enough to let his team open up on yours, especially since you'll have blown so much just to kill morphling alone.
I dunno. It just seems like a well-played Morphling is virtually immune to ganks; he can't be ganked by just one or two players, and wards/communication will give him time to TP out if they're sending a full team after him. Plus he can use replicate to hop back into the lane/jungle after a recharge at the fountain or to cross the map without notice... ugh. I guess that's why Morphling was the #1 boy for all the 4-protect-1 teams in TI2... he don't need all that much protecting.
Normaly- early game I favor Aura till max over silence, and 3 second silence till about 6 / 7 is fine to get by (for me any way- rank 1). Getting a 4 second silence early helps mid game as it just enough to stop a major player from contributing to much in team fights or ganks/counter ganks (my opinion). I miss the old veno, could go 1 point nuke, then stats n Poision sting (attack modifier) till 9, at 10/11 get ulty. Could make just about any hero leave the lane, and if by 3 no one had FB'd, I was guaranteed to get it. Hate the new way to build him, where its one or the other and wards- hated wards were so easy to kill back in the day that it left a bad taste in my mouth, but he was a hard carry then, now hes more carry/support.
Ironically, orchid Clinkz is good for morph because you can silence him BEFORE he starts spamming strength. Plus, with his ult up and fire arrows you will be hitting hard.
I never considered CK all that strong, it surprised me to see he was a popular ban lately. His lane phase is absolutely dangerous, and he's a fairly reliable stun since you're not likely to burn him down, and his blinkstrike is great, but, his ultimate dies off too easily and it's too easy to just walk away from him. All of his damage happens in the two seconds he has you stunned/blink strikes his images to you so if you survive that he's out of the fight. He got 325 movespeed, like other high movespeed heroes, because he absolutely needs it to be balanced. Says a lot about him, imo.
heck, if you really want to harrass, you could buy an early orb of venom. I'm not reccomending it, but 12 dmg for 350 isn't that bad. not sure how you were spening your gold anyways.
tried with early orb of venom you mean?
In any case, I can't say i believe it be strong as before or enough for a gauranteed lv3 FB. I really haven't even tried it personally. but it is still quite a lot of harass if you maintain it. coupled with gale, there is definitely FB opportunities or pushing out of lane. just not as strong.
There's sometimes quite a benefit with dots as well, and especially among inexperienced players who miss-estimate exactly when they're in danger. lvling gale could be useful as your mostly slow siegeing and it provides some "burst".
Last edited by Sorx; 2012-09-05 at 09:41 PM.
I wouldn't call CK a priority ban, not like fucking Naga, but he's a pretty high-tier hero (I think most people put him on the second tier, below the game-breakers like Naga, Lycan, Profit, etc) and is also very easy to play, like most STR carries. He's a hero you could give to a relatively weak player on your team without endangering your team's chances of winning - his stun is one of the best in the game (stormbolt that lasts at least 2 sec and up to 4 sec) and he doesn't really need items to start stomping people in the midgame; just treads, armlet, maybe drums. All very cheap items, and his illusions at least partially reduce his reliance on BKB since it's a Mirror Image type illusion spell, and even if you disable the real CK, his illusions still do full damage. Armlet provides enormous survivability if you're able to use it properly (free 665 HP heal every 7 sec.)
Related to LoL: Any idea if Valve has plans of expanding Dota beyond the simple 5v5 format once Dota 2 goes live? I'd really love to see Valve's take on the Dominion playstyle. I really think Riot nailed something there with that gamemode, just a shame they decided to continue focusing on their shitty "we wish this was Dota" Dota clone mode.
I meant dangerous for enemies, nothing is funnier than blinking someone into tower range and then LOL4SECONDSTUN.