People with naturally fast attack speeds would usually get a basher/abyssal for stunlock.
Please be respectful of other posters. -Edge
Mjollnir provides enough IAS on its own to make the orb effective. If you add treads or some other similar IAS item (maybe Midas?), it becomes plenty effective. It's why Mjollnir can be effective on pretty much any hero. Maybe some use it better than others and Lysah already explained why Mjollnir might not be a good choice on a carry Tiny, but pretty much any hero can get their 5k gold's worth out of it.
And going with the old shitty "Mjolnir is nice for everyone" argument isn't helping you, you can build an argument like that for Dagon 5 if you want to. And like Lysah said, you'll usually want to build Aghanim's for Tiny which makes the Mjolnir orb even more redundant.
I think we all assume that Tiny is getting scepter in any game. I still get mjollnir when I carry with him if I have time. I just tend to get it last, because, like I said, the leap from hyperstone>mjoll is very expensive for what is some damage and some speed. But you can't ignore the fact that it IS some damage and some speed, and the chain lightening proc does still happen in a fight.
It's not awful when you're already stacked on items, but I think LaNm's Phase+Manta+Aghs+Butterfly+Daedalus+AC is just about the most lethal build if you get the gold for that. Perhaps with different boots.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK URSA. Sorry, I just had to say it after losing 5 fucking games to him in a row.
He's not nearly as scary if your team has some coordination and the right items.
---------- Post added 2012-09-07 at 03:19 AM ----------
Of course, the short answer is to get a hero like BM who can just ult him and he's done, but I'd say that about any hard carry. Ursa is absolutely one of the best pub stompers, for sure. Honestly, put all the items and hero picks and teamwork (mostly because 1v5ing someone will always be a way to stop them...) away and we realize that stopping Ursa, at the heart of the matter, is as simple as not getting hit by his slow.
I don't consider sange a terrible item, for a strength hero at least. It's just that if you compare it's upgrades to their alternatives...SY versus Manta isn't a fair fight. What does SY give that Manta does not? 2% movespeed, an unreliable slow. Manta gives more stats overall and the on-use split which is just gravy for really any hero defensively and half of them offensively. It's to the point where STR heroes get manta instead because it's better, and even when I'm on a hero like Slithice and I'm against ES/bfury PA and my first thought is "well the manta illusions will just get blown up anyway" I STILL get it over SY because it's just no contest. Doesn't really feel like item balance to me when SY is an item you will buy in almost zero situations...I pretty much only get it when the illusions will become a burden instead on a melee hero like SB. Even then, MoM/BKB/armlet sometimes/AC will come first anyway and the items after that will be so game dependent.
If they changed sange's maim to an item-use so that you could force it to happen on someone (even if it was melee range like HH) it would make it way better.
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-07 at 09:03 AM.
Just had a game where PA built Armlet as her first item and spent the majority of the game flaming me for dying frequently as a hard support VS in a lane that didn't get any kills (because the Naga I was with never picked up net.) Never mind the wards, the TP scrolls, chicken and crow, and other crap I had to dump gold on for a team that... didn't really make the gold worth spending. Had a Lich in an earlier game that went bottle first, loudly insisted that Lich wasn't a support, and then pretty much flamed everyone else who told him he was an idiot and that Lich was definitely a support, to the tune of "stfu noob u don't understand anything."
Where the hell do these people even come from? Like... how do people like that exist in the day to day real world?
Did he get an ultra kill by turning it off and on?
Coming back from a 3-15 deficit to end up winning the game is just...too funny.
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-07 at 11:06 AM.
Is it that hard not to flame people and nit-pick everything thy say just so you can pretend you're always right? No? Good, stop doing it then please.
I've also realized how annoying DS can be in pub games against weaker early-game heroes with his Ion Shell and Vacuum. Takes out a good half of their health just with ion being near them once it's lvl 3/4
It’s not 150 free dmg, that’s true and gaining something for no cost is admittedly preferred. However, he is stronger with it and a remedy for speed remains easier. The cost is nearly a non-issue but you would be right in saying it should be addressed. Though when you add equal gold, tiny will even come to pass SF.
It is true about the lack of availability in items, unless you want to stack two hyper stones. I suppose you could, depending on how fast you intend the end the game or what items you buy. But beyond items, there are ways of getting IAS through heroes such as wisp or BM. That’s probably more where I’d think if possible. he only needs to be reasonably fast.
As a side note, crit is also something that benefits from the trade.