1. #2761
    1) Several ultimates go through magic immunity, GS included apparently.
    2) Stealth in general have fadetimes. Clinkz has one of 0.6 so you can hex him while he's still "getting stealthed."

  2. #2762
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    1) Several ultimates go through magic immunity, GS included apparently.
    http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Magic_...magic_immunity

  3. #2763
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    Ugh, remind me to never again play support Profit in pubs. I swear it's like you don't use ulti to push/farm so your teammates can have the farm and you build support items and then your teammates never fucking come through on their end of the deal.

    Now I understand why every Profit in pubs always goes carry mode.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
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  4. #2764
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    ^this. Carry Prophet in pubs is just too OP; not nearly enough people know/can shut him down once he's got Deso and from there he just gets more and more farmed

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  5. #2765
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    Just played Chen for the first time, went 11/0/10, game ended in 27 minutes.

    I could definitely get used to this guy, his entire kit is amazing, the only one I find less useful is Test of Faith, mainly because of the random factor of it. It has its ups and downs.

    How do you guys usually build Chen? I started with Ring of Protection, Wards and some regen, ganked at level 2 with a centaur, got RoB and Boots, ganked again, and again, then got mek and then ganked mid. Once I had my full congregation of squirrels and critters I started pushing lanes and went for Aghanim's. Anything I am doing terribly wrong?

  6. #2766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varix View Post
    Just played Chen for the first time, went 11/0/10, game ended in 27 minutes.

    I could definitely get used to this guy, his entire kit is amazing, the only one I find less useful is Test of Faith, mainly because of the random factor of it. It has its ups and downs.

    How do you guys usually build Chen? I started with Ring of Protection, Wards and some regen, ganked at level 2 with a centaur, got RoB and Boots, ganked again, and again, then got mek and then ganked mid. Once I had my full congregation of squirrels and critters I started pushing lanes and went for Aghanim's. Anything I am doing terribly wrong?
    If you don't think you are going to have the money income, Mek is a good substitute for aghs, but no, thats perfect. Even with the randomness, it's still a pretty decent nuke. The only problem I have with him is he falls prey to the enemy warding your jungle (which they should if the other team has a Chen, no fighting magnataurs at level 2).

  7. #2767
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    If you don't think you are going to have the money income, Mek is a good substitute for aghs, but no, thats perfect. Even with the randomness, it's still a pretty decent nuke. The only problem I have with him is he falls prey to the enemy warding your jungle (which they should if the other team has a Chen, no fighting magnataurs at level 2).
    Yeah, but even if you ward the centaur camps he can still get a wildkin or a troll chieftain :-/

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 04:10 AM ----------

    http://dotaholic.com/

    Apparently it's a new website, seems to be trying to be like Wowhead for Dota 2. The guide layouts are very, very nice, though unfortunately all the guides I've looked at are either just copypasta of in-game recommended items with no explanation, or are garbage (like a Doomy build that specifies Vanguard, then Heart, then Radiance.)
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-27 at 09:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  8. #2768
    So i decided to read through last few pages. Some posts gave me some chuckle and there were few decent posts too. So i'll throw in my 0.02$ here.

    First of all i'm ex-hon players that never played first dota in my life (maybe once or twice), lack of proper hot-keying and just didn't have the interest , during WC3 times i was just sticking with TD's and Vamps.

    Started playing ARTS/Mobas with very early HoN beta ~09 august or so. I have currently 1500 hours played since last years november, used to be ~1800mmr pre-compression that happened not that long ago.

    Reading posts about Lina/Lion , Lion can be great hard support especially in proper lanes, sure both heroes can be played diffrently as gankers/solo too, but i'd say Lina has way too awful attack animation comparing to pyros in HoN and all can come down to who you have to lane against (asuming similar skill levels).

    Regarding posts about comparing supports in LoL and Dota. As already mentioned supports will often lose their momentum mid-game once again assuming it's not complete stomp when support has farmed his sheepstick/forcestaff/mek while warding 25 minutes into the game. One of LoL posters mentioned that "Lol supportz bring buffs/... etc instead of damage" , well in Dota there are supports that will bring them too while being more useful than almost any carry early/mid game opposite of lol.

    The guy crying oh noes i play RD/SD and they get lycan/naga - ward their pull and weak camp and it's almost sure that lycans farm if he still decides to go woods is fucked, if he lanes - just outlane him.


    Few pages back post regarding Morph - sure he wasn't that popular, he might be now just due to trends changing and teams picking him up in tourneys.

    Why omni has barely seen any comp play lately? Because often especialy western teams likes playing agressive support heroes, sure once again trends might changed and he might get picked up more often in future.


    Community comments - b.please, grow a pair 'x player/hero noob' is not harassment, it's just some minor trolling. Also god i love that there's no concede and doubt there will be any in future, that thing ruined so many games in HoN, because some bads just decide to give up when there's still big chance of winning.



    Also as someone already said ppl saying 'i dont belong in mmr, my winrate is low cuz my teams suck - well yes it's you might get a bad team once in a while, but over time bad team number=/=good teammate numbers. So thats just pathethic excuse for bads.

  9. #2769
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    23 minute loss, then a 19 minute win, and then a horrible stomp by a party of players against a bunch of randoms. Matchmaking's been kinda spotty lately :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  10. #2770
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    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something

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  11. #2771
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    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something
    Yeah, pubstomps are apparently a thing. I don't really mind, it's a fun challenge trying to basically solo or duo against an entire team, but it's really annoying when the worst player on their team runs his mouth all game (1/3/2 omniknight) as if it's him and not their ball-crushingly good invoker that was carrying their team.

    And then my next game was a 14/2/17 win with Lich. I dunno, it's still Dota so it's still fun but I wish the MM system would do a better job of evenly matching teams... stomping and getting stomped gets kinda boring after a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  12. #2772
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    23 minute loss, then a 19 minute win, and then a horrible stomp by a party of players against a bunch of randoms. Matchmaking's been kinda spotty lately :-/
    First rain and now mist, weather's been kinda spotty lately.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something
    How do you know it hasn't tried? People flip out like crazy because there seems to be some general assumption that people who prefer to queue with friends somehow become unbeatable. I queue very often in a 5-man stack, but the skill range within the party usually ranges from almost complete beginners to 5+ year veterans and often 1-2 guys that aren't even connected to VOIP. And then 2-5 of us random. Depending on the party we usually lose a lot more than we win but it's hilarious how angry people get over the fact that they're facing a ragtag group of friends who obviously are made unbeatable by the magic of the "premade."

    I don't really care if I'm in solo queue against 5-man premade, but that's extremely rare and usually there's a party of 3-4 players on my side.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-09-27 at 09:00 PM.



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  13. #2773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    How do you know it hasn't tried? People flip out like crazy because there seems to be some general assumption that people who prefer to queue with friends somehow become unbeatable. I queue very often in a 5-man stack, but the skill range within the party usually ranges from almost complete beginners to 5+ year veterans and often 1-2 guys that aren't even connected to VOIP. And then 2-5 of us random. Depending on the party we usually lose a lot more than we win but it's hilarious how angry people get over the fact that they're facing a ragtag group of friends who obviously are made unbeatable by the magic of the "premade."

    I don't really care if I'm in solo queue against 5-man premade, but that's extremely rare and usually there's a party of 3-4 players on my side.
    You basically just described 95% of my Dota 2 games. I make it a habit to play with friends because it's, well fun, but we're by no means proplayers. Our group ranges from Veterans who watch livestreams all day and participate on various dota forums all the way down to a guy who got into the genre a couple of weeks ago.

    We don't "tryhard", we random in basically every game and we have a 48% winrate as a group and yet people still yell and get mad and cry "tryhards" just because SOME of us have the same tags.

  14. #2774
    I have like a 20% winrate queuing with friends and I should really stop, but I haven't seen anyone cry about unfair games. I guess it's because we don't have similar names or tags?

    @Simsons2
    Warding doesn't stop most any jungler, there are more camps than you can buy wards. Wolf doesn't need the little camp to be successful, if you ward it he will just go somewhere else and you will have wasted your other lane's wards on accomplishing nothing. Warding is mostly against chen/enchant to stop them from getting a certain creep, since each camp only spawns a select few types of camps. I always laugh when I random a hero like wolf and the jungle has 3 or 4 camps blocked, I still farm just as well and they get nowhere fast with all that wasted gold =/
    Win and live. Lose and die.
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  15. #2775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I have like a 20% winrate queuing with friends and I should really stop, but I haven't seen anyone cry about unfair games. I guess it's because we don't have similar names or tags?

    @Simsons2
    Warding doesn't stop most any jungler, there are more camps than you can buy wards. Wolf doesn't need the little camp to be successful, if you ward it he will just go somewhere else and you will have wasted your other lane's wards on accomplishing nothing. Warding is mostly against chen/enchant to stop them from getting a certain creep, since each camp only spawns a select few types of camps. I always laugh when I random a hero like wolf and the jungle has 3 or 4 camps blocked, I still farm just as well and they get nowhere fast with all that wasted gold =/
    Last time they warded small camp when I was Lycan I just pulled and swapped to their jungle by time I was level 3. Warding camps usually doesn't accomplish much unless you're also gonna gank them to take advantage of slowing down their start.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:31 AM ----------

    http://thedotaexperiment.files.wordp...al-online1.pdf

    Apparently this is the end result of a questionnaire that some guy was asking people to complete. It's an interesting read but you can skip to page 214 for the "implications" bit. I went ahead and did the questionnaire after the fact and it looks like it was written quite a while ago, there were several heroes missing from "pick your favorite/least favorite hero" lists.

    Some interesting things the study turned up:

    - South America and Hong Kong servers are almost never chosen alone.

    - Predictably, experiencing abusive behavior makes players less satisfied with the game and also increases the chance that they'll engage in that behavior themselves.

    - Dunning-Kruger effect is in, uh, full effect here. Players consistently rated themselves significantly higher than the "average" player.

    - "Frequency of experience with warding has a positive correlation with lower win-rate." In other words, people who ward more often lose more often than they win?

    - The "card system" (which I guess was new at the time of the questionnaire) seems to be favored only by people who are fans of heroes having a strict, set role.

    - People who are dissatisfied with Dota 2's balance were also more likely to have less faith in the ability of their teammates.

    - Alchemist was the community's least favorite hero.

    - Invoker and Anti-Mage were consistently said to be imbalanced, most favorite, and least favorite. Lycan was the hero most frequently rated as most imbalanced, by a large margin.

    - Alchemist was also considered the most underpowered hero. Batrider, Bloodseeker, and Jakiro were the runners up.

    - Players are generally still satisfied with losing games when their team was communicating with each other.

    - Players tend to blame their team for losses rather than themselves, by a "small margin."

    - A "surprisingly high" number of players will pause the game only if they know the ally that disconnected.

    Fun stuff. Oddly enough, if you tie some of the implications together, it seems to state that players that favor playing the support role and who also ward frequently have a lower win-rate than other players, which seems counter-intuitive.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-28 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  16. #2776
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    - Alchemist was the community's least favorite hero.
    Why so much bad taste, community. =(

  17. #2777
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Would Viper ever see competitive use if the meta ever shifts to a more "let the carry farm for 40 minutes" playstyle? It seems like despite being basically a ranged Skeleton King (since his ulti is basically his only active skill) he has a lot of potential for effectiveness due to the fact that everything he does slows both movement speed and attack speed.

    Anything he hits takes -40% move and attack speed, plus a little bit of magic damage. Anything that hits him takes a little magic damage and takes -25% move and attack speeds, and his ulti reduces move and attack speeds by a whopping 80% at level 16, and if he buys a scepter he can have a little less than 50% uptime for it. He does more damage as targets have less HP (and applies half of this to towers, too), and basically gets a free Hood from his defensive passive. His stats are kind of poopy (only 17+1.9 STR), but it seems like Viper should be able to out-carry damned near any carry as long as the other carry hasn't been left completely alone the entire game, plus he's really brutal in lane, especially combined with a hero like Venomancer or Crystal Maiden.

    I dunno. My buddy thinks that he's a crap hero and good only for pubstomping, but it seems like he'd have a lot of potential in a less push-oriented meta since he lacks any sort of AOE and isn't a good candidate for a Battlefury since he's ranged. But then again I think my buddy is comparing him to Morphling and I think Anti-Mage is the only other carry that can come anywhere near Morphling's level of performance in high-end gameplay right now :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  18. #2778
    Farming for 40 minutes was Viper's standard role few years ago, in Dr. Aegis days (aegis+divine rapier, aegis was made, had 3 charges of reincarnation, and gave 11hp regen, 10 armor), he was default carry for quite a while, he had frenzy instead of nethertoxin, so he only needed damage. His laning is still great, with spammable orb and 2 (3) slows, but he's been replaced with metagame shift over the years.

  19. #2779
    what do you mean by "ever" ?
    he was used often in the past
    good hero just forgotten

  20. #2780
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudomix View Post
    Farming for 40 minutes was Viper's standard role few years ago, in Dr. Aegis days (aegis+divine rapier, aegis was made, had 3 charges of reincarnation, and gave 11hp regen, 10 armor), he was default carry for quite a while, he had frenzy instead of nethertoxin, so he only needed damage. His laning is still great, with spammable orb and 2 (3) slows, but he's been replaced with metagame shift over the years.
    Yeah, that's what it seems like. He's just fucking brutal in lane but because he has no AOE of any kind he's easy to victimize with an aggressive push strategy (offensive trilane?) and he doesn't really have much damage until late in the game because I've never seen intelligent Viper players build anything but durability for the first two thirds of the game.

    It seems like he'd be a fantastic pick as a counter-carry, though, due to the ridiculous amount of slows he gets... focus less on trying to get more damage than the other carry but instead focus on being able to tank their hits while making their attack timer like 3 fucking seconds long. I'm still not sure why everyone recommends Vanguard on him... seems like Meka would be a better choice since he's ranged.



    My buddy and I were planning on goofing around this weekend and running a Keeper/Silencer lane and pissing people off with literal nonstop Curse spam and Mana Leak stuns. Any idea what'd be a good way to counter this kind of lane? PA's the only hero that immediately comes to mind as being mostly immune to this (due to short cooldown and almost nonexistent mana cost on her dagger.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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