1. #3141
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    This is post of yours proves my point about you not being able to form a proper counter argument.

    @PizzaSHARK
    Invoker is vulnerable to ganks until level 3. Depending on your build, you always have one or two escape mechanism in your arsenal where Trax has nothing until shadowblade. Invoker has one of the highest chance of survival when it comes to gank in entire game. Have you ever played with invoker? I bet you did and failed miserably.
    Lol you seem to be lost. My argument has been very straightforward. To quote myself: "Anyway is Drow tankier than Invoker? Sure. Similar health pool but Drow has retarded amounts of agi aka armor. Is Invoker harder to gank than Drow? Obviously." A "squishy" hero is taken to mean how much damage a hero can live through, typically in a gank scenario. It is fair to say Puck as a hero is pretty squishy at 15+1.7. However that does not mean Puck is easy to gank.
    Last edited by Jinto; 2012-10-31 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #3142
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    This is post of yours proves my point about you not being able to form a proper counter argument.

    @PizzaSHARK
    Invoker is vulnerable to ganks until level 3. Depending on your build, you always have one or two escape mechanism in your arsenal where Trax has nothing until shadowblade. Invoker has one of the highest chance of survival when it comes to gank in entire game. Have you ever played with invoker? I bet you did and failed miserably.
    Invoker wasn't really my kind of hero, but I've ganked him dozens of times and seen him ganked even more. It's not hard. He only has two spells until level 7 and those are limited in potency. Ghost Walk sucks as an escape method, tornado only lasts a second, Cold Feet requires you to keep attacking, etc.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  3. #3143
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Invoker wasn't really my kind of hero, but I've ganked him dozens of times and seen him ganked even more. It's not hard. He only has two spells until level 7 and those are limited in potency. Ghost Walk sucks as an escape method, tornado only lasts a second, Cold Feet requires you to keep attacking, etc.
    It's funny that you mention cold snap as a survival skill but forgot ice wall(a good icewall only countered by blink or forcestaff) and defiling blast. Other than that, I didn't claim invoker is ungankable he is just one of the hardest heroes to gank saying he's as hard as killing trax or even comparing them in terms of survival plain stupid.

  4. #3144
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    So I'm beginning to think Silencer is anti-fun crystallized, fermented, and refined. He's balanced, but is simply the most annoying, frustrating single hero I can think of to have to play against for the majority of the game. Curse combos are just frustrating as hell.

    Silencer tags you with Curse of the Silent. If you cast, you blow a lot of mana presumably without using it effectively. If you don't cast, you take some damage and lose a lot of mana.

    Once Silencer gets the new Last Word, it gets worse. If you cast, you're consuming mana inefficiently and will get hit with Last Word immediately after. If you don't cast, you lose a lot of mana and some health and get hit with Last Word immediately after. Not at all overpowered, but just annoying as shit to have to deal with, complete anti-fun.

    On a related note, I really don't like the design on Last Word. I really think that it should be a choice on the victim whether they want to be silenced now or be disarmed later, with the only constant being that you WILL take damage from it at some point. Right now, if you cast, you get silenced. If you don't cast, you get disarmed and then silenced anyway.

    It seems like it doesn't really encourage much thought on Silencer's part or the victim's part because Last Word is always going to be good to cast on anyone and everyone, rather than trying to decide "okay should I put this on the carry to try and force them to use blink at a bad time, or do I want it on a support to prevent a spell combo?"
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  5. #3145
    I agree. Last Word is pretty thoughtless and therefore boring.

    Also, I played diretide last night and it was pretty fun, a massive zerg from the first minute for the candy. I log on today and everyone is laning like it's a normal game, what happened? Enemy veno comes up to my bucket at level 1 and starts taking candy, I try to stop him but he gales and walks away. The hero mid just stands there and never comes to help.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-01 at 08:45 AM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  6. #3146
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I agree. Last Word is pretty thoughtless and therefore boring.

    Also, I played diretide last night and it was pretty fun, a massive zerg from the first minute for the candy. I log on today and everyone is laning like it's a normal game, what happened? Enemy veno comes up to my bucket at level 1 and starts taking candy, I try to stop him but he gales and walks away. The hero mid just stands there and never comes to help.
    I played Diretide all night with friends and it was funny, even some people took it a bit too seriously. Reminded me of -em dota in that aspect but with more fun and actually more balance. The only attempts at actual laning I saw were mostly people who didn't know how the mode worked. It would probably have been more fun if you couldn't just deny or courier stash the candy. Often either team would raid the other teams bucket at level 1 and then either us or them would retaliate with another bucket raid, and when candy was turned in everyone would be level 8 with 2800 gold 1,5 minutes in.

    The thing with Last Word is that in the old model Silencer had no way of reliably doing magic damage or even silencing the enemy without his ultimate. If the enemy Silencer skills q/e and hits you with Last Word you have the option of backing off without using your mana/cooldown and getting hit by CotS or you can go agressive and nail him with a Storm Bolt. I'd still rather lane that than a half-decent Silencer going Glaive/stats, the caster version can keep you off the creeps for a while but the guy with the orb sends you to you base before you know what hit you.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  7. #3147
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I played Diretide all night with friends and it was funny, even some people took it a bit too seriously. Reminded me of -em dota in that aspect but with more fun and actually more balance. The only attempts at actual laning I saw were mostly people who didn't know how the mode worked. It would probably have been more fun if you couldn't just deny or courier stash the candy. Often either team would raid the other teams bucket at level 1 and then either us or them would retaliate with another bucket raid, and when candy was turned in everyone would be level 8 with 2800 gold 1,5 minutes in.

    The thing with Last Word is that in the old model Silencer had no way of reliably doing magic damage or even silencing the enemy without his ultimate. If the enemy Silencer skills q/e and hits you with Last Word you have the option of backing off without using your mana/cooldown and getting hit by CotS or you can go agressive and nail him with a Storm Bolt. I'd still rather lane that than a half-decent Silencer going Glaive/stats, the caster version can keep you off the creeps for a while but the guy with the orb sends you to you base before you know what hit you.
    Yeah, I still think that Curse is ultimately less effective than the extra stats early on, but it's godawfully frustrating to lane against.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  8. #3148
    Three games in a row now, 1 top 1 mid 2 bot and me and one other person on the enemy team attacking buckets. It would be so easy for mid to come gank them but no one seems to care. Guess it's time to pick nothing but cheap heroes so that I can win by myself...

    I mean, I'm getting 2-3 allies a game who NEVER go near the bucket in the entire 20 minutes. Lane lane lane, maybe when they get 10 candies they drop them off and back to laning. No attack, no defense, most of them get ganked and lose their candy long before they feel like leaving.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  9. #3149
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Three games in a row now, 1 top 1 mid 2 bot and me and one other person on the enemy team attacking buckets. It would be so easy for mid to come gank them but no one seems to care. Guess it's time to pick nothing but cheap heroes so that I can win by myself...

    I mean, I'm getting 2-3 allies a game who NEVER go near the bucket in the entire 20 minutes. Lane lane lane, maybe when they get 10 candies they drop them off and back to laning. No attack, no defense, most of them get ganked and lose their candy long before they feel like leaving.
    Haven't even bothered with Diretide, though I guess I should. Personally if you want to autowin everything I'd probably go with Viper. He's a bit squishy but his orb combined with the free hood and slows make him really brutal and it's sounding like Diretide isn't meant to have much laning.

    If that's the case I'll probably just use the opportunity to work on my Visage some more.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  10. #3150
    It's hard to say. It's a lot like real DotA in that you can counter any strategy by leaving it alone and going somewhere else. Just won a game because we were 4v5ing and they ended up turtling for the last 2 minutes ahead by 15 or so. Meanwhile tinker teleported around and collected 20 candy in those two minutes from the lanes and we won in the last 3 seconds. Because the candy is so important you can't really ignore anyone on the map.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  11. #3151
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    European State of Gautland
    Posts
    5,509
    I've never played any Dota game before, but I love Valve and I'm thinking about buying this game. Looking at the heroes, most of them seem pretty dull, but the Ogre Magi catched my eye, as a mage/blood DK on WoW this is a wet dream with a spellcasting semi-tank. So does anyone know how balanced the Ogre Magi is, is he OP, UP or is he balanced? And is he really all that fun to play, for those that have played him?
    Kalle Anka-partiet in i svenska riksdagen 2014!

    My baby loves though she acts I'm not there~

  12. #3152
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I've never played any Dota game before, but I love Valve and I'm thinking about buying this game. Looking at the heroes, most of them seem pretty dull, but the Ogre Magi catched my eye, as a mage/blood DK on WoW this is a wet dream with a spellcasting semi-tank. So does anyone know how balanced the Ogre Magi is, is he OP, UP or is he balanced? And is he really all that fun to play, for those that have played him?
    Buying your way in is pretty redundant since they gave out a ridiculous amount of invites recently. If you PM me your SteamID I can toss you an invite.

    Ogre Magi is aight. Frustrating to play against, frustrating to play - as most RNG heroes are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    people who smoke weed past primary school dont deserve jobs.

    weed is for little kids. you should stop smoking it and move on to real people things

  13. #3153
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I've never played any Dota game before, but I love Valve and I'm thinking about buying this game. Looking at the heroes, most of them seem pretty dull, but the Ogre Magi catched my eye, as a mage/blood DK on WoW this is a wet dream with a spellcasting semi-tank. So does anyone know how balanced the Ogre Magi is, is he OP, UP or is he balanced? And is he really all that fun to play, for those that have played him?
    If you want to get as close to "blood dk" experience as possible Undying is the hero that does it. He heals himself a lot with his damaging abilities, is hard to kill and spawns an army of zombies.

    Dota has existed for a long time and the balance has been improved a lot over the years. There aren't any heroes that are flat out "bad" or "underpowered" in the game, nor any blatantly overpowered ones. Some heroes can be really powerful among inexperienced players, though. If you're new to the genre, you should probably pick some fairly straightforward heroes (like that Ogre Magi) and play against bots in the beginning, there is a lot you will have to learn and picking a complicated hero won't make it easier.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  14. #3154
    Too much to learn, having tried to teach new players I'm starting to wonder if the learning curve is simply too much.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  15. #3155
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Too much to learn, having tried to teach new players I'm starting to wonder if the learning curve is simply too much.
    Maybe not too much, but the tutorials and whatnot are long overdue. If you're playing with someone new, in my experience it's best to not overload them with too much information or queue in MM with normal account. A lot depends on the mentality of whoever you're trying to teach. I did teach a guy with almost no prior experience with the genre by playing few games with him every day for a 1-2 months and after that he was in Very High and did well when queuing solo, but his motivation and ability to learn and accept his own mistakes was great.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  16. #3156
    Sounds too good to be true =p
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  17. #3157
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    10,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I've never played any Dota game before, but I love Valve and I'm thinking about buying this game. Looking at the heroes, most of them seem pretty dull, but the Ogre Magi catched my eye, as a mage/blood DK on WoW this is a wet dream with a spellcasting semi-tank. So does anyone know how balanced the Ogre Magi is, is he OP, UP or is he balanced? And is he really all that fun to play, for those that have played him?
    If you want to get into Dota, you're going to need to do a lot of reading and learning. The game isn't particularly complex, but there is a LOT, and I mean a lot, of information you need to have memorized or at least banging around in your head. To perform at an average skill level, you need to know every single hero - and there's over a hundred of them. Every skill they have, what those skills do, how to deal with those skills, and on and on. That said, because the gameplay is pretty simple, it's not hard to learn all that information, though it'll take you probably fifty or sixty games before you really know it and hundreds of games before you have it truly memorized.

    Here's some resources you'll want to be able look at:

    Welcome to Dota, you suck All-inclusive noob's guide to Dota 2; it'll teach you everything you need to know about basic gameplay and get you started on the kinds of things you'll need to know.

    Dota 2 Wiki The "official" Dota 2 wiki. It's important for learning the nitty-gritty about hero skills, particularly in the sense of how those skills interact with Magic Immunity and many other little things that end up being critically important as you learn the game.

    Dota 2 Alt-Tab The source for 30-second guides on heroes. Like the name suggests, it's meant to be quickly looked at after you've picked a hero, but before the game starts. Skill builds, item builds, and very bare-bones gameplay guides for every hero. These guides are not meant to be the only way to play a hero, or even the best, but they won't steer you wrong, especially not at average-level gameplay.

    If you're seeing all this text and going "oh wow that's too much effort," I'm gonna be blunt and say Dota ain't the game for you. If you ever want to claw your way out of the rancid morass that is low-level gameplay in Dota, you've got some reading to do.

    As for heroes to start with... hmm. Skeleton King and Viper are some of the simplest heroes in the game, with each hero having only a single active ability and everything else being passive (newbies can just leave Viper's Poison Attack on autocast and be fine.) Ursa is another good choice, again really having only one really active skill and everything else basically being passive - and since he can jungle, he's a great introduction to jungling.

    Ogre Magi is a great choice if you want to learn how spellcasters tend to work in Dota, all of his skills are very simple and easy to understand and his enormous Strength stat means he's pretty tanky even without items.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  18. #3158
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Sounds too good to be true =p
    Almost but not quite. https://dotabuff.com/players/10805826 is his account. He did later admit he kind of resented me in the beginning for taking him into too hard MM games, and like I've mentioned before, some other people have refused to play with me for the same reason. Not much to learn when you die whenever you show up in the enemy minimap and your random teammates flame you nonstop.

    ^to the wall of text above, that's the kind of information overload I was talking about. There's no use reading guides until you're actually tried the game, you'll either not understand what you read or forget 80% of it before your first game. Just go to a game, pick a hero in the "beginner friendly heroes" filter, buy recommended items and play the game. When you feel like you need advice or more information about something, then open the guides.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-11-02 at 11:12 AM.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  19. #3159
    Dat support heroes.

    Anyway, I'm no stranger to the zero friends because MMR too high feeling. Did I ever mention how much I wish they'd add a bloody unranked mode already?
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  20. #3160
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,971
    If anyone is selling a Shadow Essence PM me and ill make you an offer.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •