1. #3621
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    wut? Make sense, please. I know it ain't your strong suit, but please try.

    Some support heroes require items and/or XP to perform well. Omniknight and Dazzle are examples - would you also say they aren't supports? Sven's in the same boat when he plays as a support - he still needs some gold and some XP or he's going to be useless. The easiest means of getting both is with a trilane, since his stun is OP as shit.[COLOR="red"]

    I could keep giving strong arguments but you will keep fail to understand anyway.

    You are a joke, a true internet joke. PizzaJoke?
    When you think something is OP you throw mud to IceFrog and even dare to say game design is easy. Have you ever read about game theory? Designed a game? NO.
    When you got raped hard in your lame MMR, you throw the bullshit of THAT SPELL or HERO IS OP AS FUCK.
    When you don't like something in competitive scene you throw mud to pros and their play style.
    You keep repeating fucking dota2wiki with walls of texts and try to be cool while repeating same drill and shits we already now for like fucking 6 years?

    Claiming Sven's stun is OP is not even funny.

    You need to make sense not me.

    ps: somehow this guy is always right and rest is always wrong.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-21 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #3622
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfInvocation View Post
    I rarely agree with Pizza, especially with his last statements about icefrog and such .. But sorry, morph was OP.
    What makes you think I'm going to take that as an argument from you? You may not have yet ruined your ability of being taken seriously, but that doesn't really put you in a situation where I'd buy opinions disguised as facts from you or anyone else.

    It was a "universal fact" because he was really popular for a while and when played by experienced players (Loda, BurNiNG, Sylar...) who've possibly played hundreds of games on him over the years he can make impressive performances, much like any other carry. Still, being a carry with no real rightclick steroids, medium range, medium mobility, little CC and a high amount of farm needed to do decent physical damage in a fight it is kind of hard for me to find out the element of "overpowered" in that hero. His only strenghts are/were in survivability and snowballing when your team had early-mid game advantage and holding onto it before enemy no-farm weakling supports could recover from his fast eblade.

    The actual universal fact was that for whatever reason people were pissed at Morphling for being picked in almost half the games in TI2. I watched every single tournament stage game and some 65% of the preliminaries and read a lot of forums and reddit between the games and there were cries of "Morphling OP" everywhere after LGD shitstomped yet another Western team with Morphling - put it anyway you want, but on a hindsight I'd say they would have shitstomped with any other carry, like they did whenever they didn't even pick Morph. And Morphling winrate was 58%, which is admittably high until you consider a lot of those wins are Chinese teams stomping Western teams, which again they probably would have done with a different draft. Did LGD go 18-0 because they knew Morphling was OP, or was Morphling just an innocent victim when LGD were OP?

    As of now, Morphling has the lowest winrate (in the current version) of any hero in the history of dotabuff.com, he is never picked in competitive and his Eblade builds are crippled by the awful cast times on his abilities. I'll give it a year or so when people forget how they used to hate him for whatever reason and start demanding buffs.

    @Kuntantee I don't really agree with your style, but you do have a point. I'm however afraid that that point has already been made several times to no effect. I've tried to but failed to get a hold of whatever his perspective is, but at least I'm still being amused at by how after 6+ years of dota he is the first person I've heard suggest that Stormbolt, among a slew of other things, are somehow OP.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-11-21 at 10:42 PM.
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  3. #3623
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    .
    When you don't like something in competitive scene you throw mud to pros and their play style.
    .
    Uhm exactly what is wrong with this?
    The competitive scene is used for entertainment. It's obvious people are gonna bitch about it if it's boring or one-dimensional. All of the other things you said are ok.

  4. #3624
    New patch: Dreamhack Winter and StarLadder S4 tickets, Austria servers.

    Anyone have a dota fantasy team for DHW? Anyone participating in the StarLadder qualifiers? No?

  5. #3625
    Pandaren Monk Maruka's Avatar
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    Bought the early access, having a good time. i think im 4-4 right now. Havent played dota since like 6.34b or something like that lol.

  6. #3626
    Quote Originally Posted by Daraiki View Post
    Uhm exactly what is wrong with this?
    The competitive scene is used for entertainment. It's obvious people are gonna bitch about it if it's boring or one-dimensional. All of the other things you said are ok.
    I was referring to his sentences like "competitive scene is joke", "they follow trend not logic" and bla bla. These are not exactly his quotes but you get the idea. I really don't care if some1 would find competitive scene boring or whatever but you can't just underestimate their skill, experience and act like you are dota god and they(pros) have no brain or they have some sort of herd behaviour.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 12:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    Bought the early access, having a good time. i think im 4-4 right now. Havent played dota since like 6.34b or something like that lol.
    I could give you one of my beta keys for free(posted on previous page). I'm gonna repeat myself. I'm willing to give away my beta keys those who are interested in long term play.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-21 at 10:42 PM.

  7. #3627
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    stuff
    I would try hard to agree with anything said in this post but I get too caught up on the "when played by experienced players..." bit. Honestly, what about being Morph is difficult? Level 1 skill morph, get circlet/branches and a bit of regen, morph yourself down to 450 hp and you're at 90 auto attack damage at level 1. CSing isn't hard, just level wave form and morph and any time you get ganked you can easily wave form/morph strength away. Once you're ~10 with your ult and max wave form you should easily have the stats to run around with 150 auto attack damage and the survivability to survive just about any combination of focus. Wave form still does half of someone's health at this point so if you can't get kills you've really been slacking off. So many other agility heroes are harder to play, hell, I'd be willing to say that almost all of them are harder to play. PA is pretty easy once fed, maybe, but she's way harder to survive early game with. Watching someone do well with Morph is probably one of the least impressive things in the game.
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  8. #3628
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    What makes you think I'm going to take that as an argument from you? You may not have yet ruined your ability of being taken seriously, but that doesn't really put you in a situation where I'd buy opinions disguised as facts from you or anyone else.

    It was a "universal fact" because he was really popular for a while and when played by experienced players (Loda, BurNiNG, Sylar...) who've possibly played hundreds of games on him over the years he can make impressive performances, much like any other carry. Still, being a carry with no real rightclick steroids, medium range, medium mobility, little CC and a high amount of farm needed to do decent physical damage in a fight it is kind of hard for me to find out the element of "overpowered" in that hero. His only strenghts are/were in survivability and snowballing when your team had early-mid game advantage and holding onto it before enemy no-farm weakling supports could recover from his fast eblade.

    The actual universal fact was that for whatever reason people were pissed at Morphling for being picked in almost half the games in TI2. I watched every single tournament stage game and some 65% of the preliminaries and read a lot of forums and reddit between the games and there were cries of "Morphling OP" everywhere after LGD shitstomped yet another Western team with Morphling - put it anyway you want, but on a hindsight I'd say they would have shitstomped with any other carry, like they did whenever they didn't even pick Morph. And Morphling winrate was 58%, which is admittably high until you consider a lot of those wins are Chinese teams stomping Western teams, which again they probably would have done with a different draft. Did LGD go 18-0 because they knew Morphling was OP, or was Morphling just an innocent victim when LGD were OP?

    As of now, Morphling has the lowest winrate (in the current version) of any hero in the history of dotabuff.com, he is never picked in competitive and his Eblade builds are crippled by the awful cast times on his abilities. I'll give it a year or so when people forget how they used to hate him for whatever reason and start demanding buffs.

    @Kuntantee I don't really agree with your style, but you do have a point. I'm however afraid that that point has already been made several times to no effect. I've tried to but failed to get a hold of whatever his perspective is, but at least I'm still being amused at by how after 6+ years of dota he is the first person I've heard suggest that Stormbolt, among a slew of other things, are somehow OP.
    Chinese teams used him because he was OP, yes. He doesn't even fit the chinese play style they had during TI2 since he is a very aggressive carry(risky), while they loved ricing(safe play).. Yet they picked him, he was that good. And that SAFE, even while aggressive.

    Oh and I am not sure I can take you seriously really.

    Medium mobility on a hero who can jump all over the map? What's next, prophet has low mobility? And he had about as much right click steroid as AM, if not more (Morph vs mana break), with three escape/survive mechanisms, two low cd, high damage nukes. On top of that he could be anywhere on the map in an instant.

    And when I think impressive performances, I think amazing razes, amazing hooks etc. Not someone shift-queing up Wave+Eblade+Adaptive+Replicate back to safety.

    He was no risk high reward - Probably the best level 1 last hitting hero, so farm came easy. Oh and he had no issues mid so you could actually have TWO hard carries on a team without stealing farm. And even then Morph was NOT farm dependant as you say(Like a sylla for example) so he could function like QoP does mid and go gank while actually being a better nuker(with eblade), farmer, more mobile AND better right clicker than her.

  9. #3629
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    Morph had maybe the strongest escape of any carry through strength morph, wave form and replicate. It allowed him to be very aggresive with farming with little risk compared to other carries.
    That was why he was OP before.

  10. #3630
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfInvocation View Post
    Chinese teams used him because he was OP, yes. He doesn't even fit the chinese play style they had during TI2 since he is a very aggressive carry(risky), while they loved ricing(safe play).. Yet they picked him, he was that good. And that SAFE, even while aggressive.

    Oh and I am not sure I can take you seriously really.

    Medium mobility on a hero who can jump all over the map? What's next, prophet has low mobility? And he had about as much right click steroid as AM, if not more (Morph vs mana break), with three escape/survive mechanisms, two low cd, high damage nukes. On top of that he could be anywhere on the map in an instant.

    And when I think impressive performances, I think amazing razes, amazing hooks etc. Not someone shift-queing up Wave+Eblade+Adaptive+Replicate back to safety.

    He was no risk high reward - Probably the best level 1 last hitting hero, so farm came easy. Oh and he had no issues mid so you could actually have TWO hard carries on a team without stealing farm. And even then Morph was NOT farm dependant as you say(Like a sylla for example) so he could function like QoP does mid and go gank while actually being a better nuker(with eblade), farmer, more mobile AND better right clicker than her.
    You may not take me seriously, but as hard as I may try I don't see your post being more credible than mine. Again you're just contradicting yourself by saying Chinese teams love safe play (which isn't as much true as it used to be any more, just look at iG) and they pick Morph because he is "risky" but also he has no risk? And again your arguments just boil into your opinions made into statements without any evidence ("chinese teams used him because he was op".)

    On top of that I don't think I ever saw anyone shift-queue Morphling combo, and Morph is only a steroid if you're comfortable Morphing yourself down to 1300 HP. Meanwhile you forget that AM has 1.35 second BAT, which is probably a better late-game steroid than the other two.

    The rest of your post is just hyperbolic rambling so I'll leave it at that. I tried to build and argument, I used rhetorics, you reply with "nah m8 hes just OP." Why even bash pizza if you can't do any better?

    @Lysah I didn't fully mean to imply that just playing Morphling is particularly difficult, but it doesn't mean that there's no room for high skill and high experience to make him better. There's a lot of aspects to playing a really good Morphling, and being able to farm with agi morph and Eblade + Adaptive lategame doesn't get you all that far unless your team is already winning. I can make a list if you really demand one, but I honestly thought you might know that already.


    I don't feel like being dragged to this convo again though when all I'm seeing is "but he is invulnerable and jumps anywhere anytime in a nanosecond and oneshots anyone." You look at the changelog where the only significant change is the one to cast times and base damage and ask yourselves "did this really bring that hero from top to bottom, or was it really a trend that brought him to the top and an unnecessary nerf that brought him to the bottom?" If you get a good answer, I'd still like to hear it.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-11-22 at 01:31 AM.
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  11. #3631
    Does doing anything get you very far if your team isn't already winning? Just yesterday I went 25-4 as PotM and barely managed to win. Sure, you can win games by carrying just THAT hard, but how often does it happen? One in a hundred games, at best. People have this idea that Dota is all about having one good player for your carry, but really, no matter how fed Lord Magina gets he will still die to a sheep and focus if his team can't back him up.

    However, you can tell the difference between good and bad carry players based on their positioning and timing. I've also won a game (against a fed AM) that I should've lost because AM would run in first. Between my static storm and team focusing on him he was dead before his team caught up. Good carry players wait for their team to engage and they enter the fight right when it matters the most - they might have two dead allies already but they know they're hitting you just right enough to kill four people. That's where the RRRRRAMPAGE comes from, after all. It's not because the carry is a fantastic player, it's because his entire team was able to set up that five kill.

    Morph is different. He can ignore positioning, he can ignore his own team. He can easily wave form in, ethadaptive your witch doctor to death instantly, replicate back to his team, and now it's 4v5 and he can just wait for his cooldowns back even IF you can somehow hold off his team in a now unfair fight. Let's not forget that if you do somehow manage to tag him with a stun fast enough to try to focus him during this he will just jack his health up from 1200 to 4800 and then replicate out after you waste everything you have.

    I knew morph was a good hero BEFORE they added stat gain to skilling morph. That was the over the top change, in my opinion. Before he had to pick between raw power (stats) and utility/survivability (morph). Now he gets both at the same time so he's already unstoppable at level 1. Mana drain is still pretty effective against him because of the resource nerf to morphing, at least.

    I never considered morph OP, but he is one of a few heroes to take the fun out of the game. Like pizza has said repeatedly in this thread, it's not that he can't be stopped, it's that he takes zero skill whatsoever to be good at. Other heroes like storm spirit come to mind here, as well.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-22 at 02:18 AM.
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  12. #3632
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Does doing anything get you very far if your team isn't already winning? Just yesterday I went 25-4 as PotM and barely managed to win. Sure, you can win games by carrying just THAT hard, but how often does it happen? One in a hundred games, at best. People have this idea that Dota is all about having one good player for your carry, but really, no matter how fed Lord Magina gets he will still die to a sheep and focus if his team can't back him up.

    However, you can tell the difference between good and bad carry players based on their positioning and timing. I've also won a game (against a fed AM) that I should've lost because AM would run in first. Between my static storm and team focusing on him he was dead before his team caught up. Good carry players wait for their team to engage and they enter the fight right when it matters the most - they might have two dead allies already but they know they're hitting you just right enough to kill four people. That's where the RRRRRAMPAGE comes from, after all. It's not because the carry is a fantastic player, it's because his entire team was able to set up that five kill.

    Morph is different. He can ignore positioning, he can ignore his own team. He can easily wave form in, ethadaptive your witch doctor to death instantly, replicate back to his team, and now it's 4v5 and he can just wait for his cooldowns back even IF you can somehow hold off his team in a now unfair fight. Let's not forget that if you do somehow manage to tag him with a stun fast enough to try to focus him during this he will just jack his health up from 1200 to 4800 and then replicate out after you waste everything you have.

    I knew morph was a good hero BEFORE they added stat gain to skilling morph. That was the over the top change, in my opinion. Before he had to pick between raw power (stats) and utility/survivability (morph). Now he gets both at the same time so he's already unstoppable at level 1. Mana drain is still pretty effective against him because of the resource nerf to morphing, at least.

    I never considered morph OP, but he is one of a few heroes to take the fun out of the game. Like pizza has said repeatedly in this thread, it's not that he can't be stopped, it's that he takes zero skill whatsoever to be good at. Other heroes like storm spirit come to mind here, as well.
    Your Morphling analysis kind of forgets that you don't nearly always go Eblade and that your targets don't always just show up and moon at you. How do you teamfight with a Morphling when you don't have Eblade, or when the only hero you actually could take out with your combo is nowhere to be seen? How do you teamfight when enemy team is pushing your towers and your team needs your help, but you're still sitting at treads/aquila/perse/ulti orb. Do you just Waveform in and press str Morph and hope you do enough damage? It's amazing though how Morph takes no skill to be good at, yet I've only seen a handful of people play great Morphling in MM, and most seem to fail miserably if they're not carried by their teams.

    Anyhow, I'm not quite sure how you went from what I said to your idea that people (or myself?) have this and that idea of carrying. You're not wrong, though. I find that whether or not carry your carry is skilled or not doesn't matter and can't really be measured when they sit in their safe lane for 20 minutes freefarming while their team goes 18-4 and then he descends to put a hole in the enemy team. The skill of a carry matters when game drags on long enough and enemy also have decent carry or carries. Or when you're being pressured heavily early game, your lane is losing, you get ganked, but still as a good carry you can adapt your build, you can find farm, you can be useful for your team before the game is over and maybe turn it around.

    Like it's kind of disappointing how no pro lately has skipped BF on AM, I've seen many games lately where AM finishes their BF 10 minutes too late instead of getting Treads+Vanguard+Yasha. Then they proceed to either die miserably trying to defend the enemy 23-minute rax attempt or try to farm or push even more miserably while their rax is being taken.
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  13. #3633
    How do you not farm eth blade with a hero who can nuke an entire wave over and over and also has huge auto attack damage to back it up? I already said that if you're not killing people by mid game you've been slacking off in your lane. Morph really can fall asleep and still CS his way to 600 gpm.

    I never liked BFury on AM. A 5k gold investment that is only meant to make more gold, like some sort of super midas, is a waste of gold more often than not. If you can build it at 15 minutes and proceed to jungle for another 20 minutes so that you will have manta treads heart bfly on top of that bfury, sure, go for it. Too many people spend the entire game trying to farm with no boots and pers and finally finish their bfury at 30 minutes with no base around. 200+ damage an auto attack is fantastic and all but when you have 800 health you're still dead.

    We actually used to have arguments about whether bfury was a good item and should be bought by ANYBODY in ANY game back in the DotA1 days. Now people feel it's basically required for heroes like AM or even BH (BH? What the hell?). I can see making one on Sven or Magnus to cap their cleave, but that 5k gold can easily be a manta style on AM which is a hell of a lot scarier in a fight.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-22 at 02:48 AM.
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  14. #3634
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    How do you not farm eth blade with a hero who can nuke an entire wave over and over and also has huge auto attack damage to back it up? I already said that if you're not killing people by mid game you've been slacking off in your lane. Morph really can fall asleep and still CS his way to 600 gpm.
    Lasthitting might not be hard for Morphling, but still he can have very bad time if there's more than one enemy player on their lane. And I tried to point out that Eblade isn't always a good option, and even when it is, you need levels in Adaptive to make it work regardless of how fast you rack in gold, and if you need to defend T2 towers 15-20 minutes in you're probably much less useful than many other carries.

    I never liked BFury on AM. A 5k gold investment that is only meant to make more gold, like some sort of super midas, is a waste of gold more often than not. If you can build it at 15 minutes and proceed to jungle for another 20 minutes so that you will have manta treads heart bfly on top of that bfury, sure, go for it. Too many people spend the entire game trying to farm with no boots and pers and finally finish their bfury at 30 minutes with no base around. 200+ damage an auto attack is fantastic and all but when you have 800 health you're still dead.

    We actually used to have arguments about whether bfury was a good item and should be bought by ANYBODY in ANY game back in the DotA1 days. Now people feel it's basically required for heroes like AM or even BH (BH? What the hell?). I can see making one on Sven or Magnus to cap their cleave, but that 5k gold can easily be a manta style on AM which is a hell of a lot scarier in a fight.
    I couldn't really agree more with this, they even nerfed BF in HoN and I died a bit inside every time a teammate made one. I rarely make one if I can avoid it on any hero, barring AM and PA. BF BH is something I've seen way too much, I very rarely flame people for their play but when I have BF BH in my team I'd really like to but I can't find the words. I've had like 2 games in the past week where I'm playing with 3 or 4 friends and we run around the map mid-game, pushing and teamfighting and getting a lot of kills while our 5th player is happily farming on the opposite side of the map with their BF Gondar. It wouldn't even be a bad item for him if only people who built one farmed enemy team instead of creeps.

    Like I said, it's disappointing how pro players seem to be unable to skip BF on AM these days. A while ago it wasn't uncommon to see quick Treads+Vanguard+Vlads fighting AM or even a rushed BKB, but I can't even remember the last time I saw any of that.
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  15. #3635
    Vanguard AM used to be so meta, what happened to those games. A 10 minute treads/vang on AM was considered "GFG" at one point in history, you knew you were never killing him.

    Still, no hero can do it alone, even morph. Like I said, I don't consider him OP, but it's really annoying how little skill it takes to farm with him and to carry with him. Even if you can stack an aggressive enough lane to beat him with, he can just wave form spam until he catches up. Even if he can't rush eth blade for the raw burst a build as simple as treads/aquila/2x wraith will make him strong enough between morph agility/strength and his nukes to be relevant as a carry mid game. He can turn the gold he gets from team fights and pushing into a linken's and manta and then he's immortal, as usual.
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  16. #3636
    I'll just have to partially disagree on the difficulty question, although it obviously does kind of depend on who you're playing against. Well, at least someone was up to coherent discussion on the matter, so everything went better than expected. Personally the only time I remember being owned hard by a Morphling was when I was playing Enchantress and Morph was played by Trixi... I did great early-mid but then Scandal who was playing Invoker for us disced for 10 minutes in which time our team got rolled over and Trixi started diving me in our fountain past the rax and base towers to fuck with me. I wasn't amused the 5th or whatever time, but I kind of miss seeing good Morphling players in MM. Or Korokodile's stream.

    At least after 3 days of getting an error whenever I tried to register the DA fantasy league is working for me. Loda better not disappoint me.
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  17. #3637
    Diving past three waves of towers to kill someone, so rude.
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  18. #3638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I could keep giving strong arguments but you will keep fail to understand anyway.

    You are a joke, a true internet joke. PizzaJoke?
    When you think something is OP you throw mud to IceFrog and even dare to say game design is easy. Have you ever read about game theory? Designed a game? NO.
    I've read quite a lot about game theory because it's an interesting subject. Designing balanced games is not difficult.

    When you got raped hard in your lame MMR, you throw the bullshit of THAT SPELL or HERO IS OP AS FUCK.
    I've stated repeatedly that I base my opinions off of professional games and "very high MMR" games that I've watched, not my own games. The game isn't balanced around my wood league solo queue gameplay, but it is balanced around the professional level... right?

    When you don't like something in competitive scene you throw mud to pros and their play style.
    Because if I buy a tournament ticket to watch games on DotaTV, I'd like to be fucking entertained, not "oh look it's the same five fucking heroes in the first pick/ban phase AGAIN."

    Claiming Sven's stun is OP is not even funny.
    OP rarely is.

    ps: somehow this guy is always right and rest is always wrong.
    Actually I've agreed with Hermanni and Lysah and others just as often as I've disagreed with them. When he's not busy raging at people directly, Hermanni makes a lot of really good points, and so does Lysah. The same goes for people on Reddit when I engage in discussions there.

    Hell, even you manage to make good points once in a blue moon.
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  19. #3639
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Hell, even you manage to make good points once in a blue moon.
    When this quote comes someone who lost the credibility with tons of "this is OP bullshit" its even more convincing. I've never seen you made a good point. I don't consider your walls of texts with skill explanations good points. And finally, I really give no shit about making good points. I think all this theoretical circle jerk kinda meaningless as long as the owner of that post lacks the skill to execute what he/she's thinking/saying.

    Observation is not enough in any game. For DotA case, sometimes professional players/teams outskill/outpick each other that's why some heroes may seem underpowered or overpowered but you can't even understand it.

    About morph, Some heroes easier than the others but the hardest and only significant part is playing against good players which always have room for improvements and skill. They would know exactly what you are going to do and I really don't think a game is purely lost in pro scene just because you could combo wave shotgun and back to base or somewhere else combo.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-22 at 09:58 AM.

  20. #3640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    When this quote comes someone who lost the credibility with tons of "this is OP bullshit" its even more convincing. I've never seen you made a good point. I don't consider your walls of texts with skill explanations good points. And finally, I really give no shit about making good points. I think all this theoretical circle jerk kinda meaningless as long as the owner of that post lacks the skill to execute what he/she's thinking/saying.
    Skill isn't really the determining factor in a lot of things in Dota, it's more about memorization and what you would call "gamesense." That's achieved by simply playing lots and lots (and lots) of games, not through being particularly skilled. Obviously you need quick reaction times to perform at the professional level, but those reaction times and APM (actions per minute) are far below that of professional Starcraft or Quake players.

    Most games are won or lost based on the decisions made by the given teams, not based on reaction times or pure APM. Knowing when someone will be in their jungle, when they'll be coming for a gank or what route they'll take when trying to escape a gank, memorizing pathways through trees, predicting their lanes and arranging yours to stymie theirs... all of that's based purely off of experience, which is quite different from skill.

    It's fun as hell to watch Dendi pull of feats of amazing reaction time, but very rarely do those isolated incidents make the difference between a win and a loss.

    Observation is not enough in any game. For DotA case, sometimes professional players/teams outskill/outpick each other that's why some heroes may seem underpowered or overpowered but you can't even understand it.
    lol? Some of the best commentators on sports in general are people who never played it at the professional level, and especially in a game like Dota where the burden is mostly on rote memorization and general experience, you can get a lot of information simply from watching and analyzing other people play, especially people at a high level. This goes double for the after-game interviews that are becoming more common, where those players are explaining what was going through their head at the moment something happened.

    About morph, Some heroes easier than the others but the hardest and only significant part is playing against good players which always have room for improvements and skill. They would know exactly what you are going to do and I really don't think a game is purely lost in pro scene just because you could combo wave shotgun and back to base or somewhere else combo.
    It was a significant contributing factor in a lot of games where Morphling won - the ability to dive into the enemy team to instantly kill a support and replicate back out to avoid punishment. Like Lysah said, that turns it into a 4v5 at minimal cost to Morphling's team.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-11-22 at 10:54 AM.
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