I mean I have the patience to teach them but most of them don't even respond, maybe out of shame or something, but it does make me wonder why they queued for hard in the first place.
I guess it's hard to understand that when it's been years since you (generic you) were new yourself.
its not THAT bad. Maybe the problem with DotA2 is not enough newbies can actually play it. When i started with dota on eurobattle and garena, it was flooded with noobs like me, there were even "only noobs" games created all the time, so it wasnt that harsh to get into the game. In dota2, imo most people are to some degree seasoned players and barely anyone new to the game, who gets discouraged in his first game when all he hears is "noob go back to lol" "delete dota" and similar and one can only play against bots only so much before he needs real experience with runehunting, ganks, people not calling SS, "OP" lane combos etc.
And it's not like you need to know this in passing, you need to have it freaking memorized so you can call it up at will, because it IS going to matter.
As I'm sure Hermanni, Lysah, and the other players that play at the high end of the MMR scale can tell you, the difference between good and bad below their level is almost wholly related to knowledge of the game, not actual player skill. There is a simply enormous amount of information to be memorized, digested, and regurgitated on command just to be able to play the game at an "average," level. It's a MASSIVE barrier to entry and I'd put it up there on the same level as games like Dwarf Fortress and Rogue.
Compare this to a game like Starcraft II. Yeah, there's definitely build orders to learn and information about units and upgrade timings and whatnot to learn, but you run out of "you must know this to not die," information fairly quickly and it becomes working on your execution - working on getting that APM up so 3 infestors can't fungal 40 marines to death with 200 energy, on maneuvering units into good engagement positions, etc.
And then you have games like QuakeWorld on the opposite end of the scale - there's very little information to memorize, mostly just medpack and armor respawn timings and map layouts, but a staggering amount of raw skills (APM) that you have to learn to do in order to reach and compete at that "average" level of play.
And of the three, I'd say Dota is the most difficult to get into, because until you have all that knowledge, your APM isn't going to matter a whole lot - if you don't know that Juggy can spin to prevent you from nuking him down, you're going to feed and feed and feed regardless of your APM being higher than theirs.
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Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2012-12-04 at 12:47 PM.
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
Now they've all got DotA 2, and I've watched them play a bit. One sent me one of those free invites, and I've started playing some solo bot matches. I just feel like I'm utterly overwhelmed when I got to play.
I don't want to just be spoon-fed everything... but... I barely have a clue as to what each hero does, or what their roles mean. There's almost NO explanation. Just "Here you go have fun, thanks for playing". Do I got top? bottom? mid? How far do I go? What skills should I get first? When should I level my stats?
I don't even wanna try to play a normal game with other players, as I've seen the 'community' that plays games like DotA. Confused on one thing? "HOLY SHIT YOU FUCKING SUCK DICK DIE IN A FIRE". I'd rather not submit myself to that.
Plus, idk if I could handle playing through some of the 45m-1hr long games I've seen my roommates go through.
And if you wan't to learn more about dota, you can check out DotaCinema channel on youtube, they have decent guides (not character guides, but overall, like warding and laning)
Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2012-12-04 at 01:00 PM.
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
One of the more useful guide sites, if only for it being so to the point.
I don't agree with all their item builds (the kind of players who need guides really shouldn't buy blink so often) but it works.
Everage day on EU West.
Russian 1: speaks Russian
Russian 2: speaks Russian
You: I don't speak Russian, sorry.
Russian 1: ))))
Russian 1: speaks Russian
Russian 3: speaks russian
*you die once*
Russian 1: FU NOOB IDIOT STOP FEED
It's a team game, yet team play is impossible. They should be forced onto their own Russian servers. It annoys the shit out of me to have to hear them speak Russian all the time in both voice chat and text. Not to mention the quality of game they tend to provide.
The ONLY reason why its harder to get into dota 2 than is because there are no "noob games" for people to learn harder things in somewhat relaxed conditions, instead they are thrown into matchmaking with the likes of you who expect from them impossible tasks and throw a hissyfit every time they dont do something properly. They dont NEED to learn harder things from the get go, they however absolutely NEED to get a good feel of the game pace and need to get comfortable playing the game and heroes and against heroes/combos without being called noob every two minutes.
The game needs to get tutorials asap for sure, but the mentor program and game going live free for everyone are the more important things. I went with friend who has played like 2 hours of LoL before, he picked easy hero and was stomped nontheless, because even after i warned him dozen times, he still dived enemy tower against dazzle yurnero. But he was HAVING FUN... Until two wannabe-pros started flaming him.
The issue arent the newbies or the knowledge they have or dont have. Its those seasoned players that cant get over few missteps of those newbies that might cost them the game.
I havent played quake like at all, since it was just not my thing, I always preferred CS, but again, the only reason SC2 is easier to get into is because you get matched against opponents on your level of (no)skill, this just isnt possible in dota2 at this time with the regular matchmaking and the ammount of people that (can) play. If half of their matches were against low masters, you can bet new people wouldnt play SC2 for more than few games, too.
What kind of bothers me is that it seems like a lot of people who try to teach newcomers seem intent on overloading their subject(s) with information. Learn these things, memorize all this, read these guides... for what? To have fun? Are you introducing your friend to a game so that they could enjoy playing it or are you just trying to train a personal wardbitch out of someone? What do you think a new player cares about more, making it to the high end matchmaking or just having fun?
Just let new players try and enjoy the game and figure things on their own unless they actually tell you they want to learn everything and be great players at any cost. Let them ask questions and get used to one thing at a time instead of demanding that they get good so they're ready for matchmaking with you. When I was first asked to play DotA I had no idea what the game looked like or how it was played, now I probably know more about the game than 98% of the players, but between those two there isn't any time when I weren't having a great time just playing the game.
P.S. I used the word "you" a lot, but this post wasn't directed to anyone in particular.
Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-12-04 at 02:22 PM.