1. #21
    Weaker turrets, weaker junglers, creep deny, couriers and scroll of teleportations make the game "faster", it has more ganks and more lane changes, not to mention that heroes are more different than each other.

    I used to be a DotA hater compared to LoL, but after a few thread like this, my arguments didn't stand anymore. DotA 2 is better as a competitive game, but I'd agree that LoL is more noob friendly.

  2. #22
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    It's one way to get people interested. Having a flashy video instead of being able to play it yourself does make people curious - especially if said video contains spectacular play.

  3. #23
    Here are some commentaries for latest tournaments:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/LuminousInverse?ob=0
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PurgeGamers?ob=0

    If you watched the Defense Final games, you see the game is still with alot of technical difficulties.

  4. #24
    Question: Is DOTA2 just the SR/AOS style map?

  5. #25
    I've played dota(original one) for about 3 years, later switched over to HoN and have there played about 500 games. Then I decided to try LoL , got to about lvl 25 or 26. And now most recently I've soon to play about 200 games in Dota 2.

    Now for my own rankings It goes Dota2 > Hon > LoL.
    As many have said before, even tho Dota 2 have a lot of passive and simple spells it's the uniqness of each item that makes the game. That and that the game really is intense from minute one till the end.
    I didn't like items at all in LoL or the way you build your champion because it felt like you always build the same items because they were just the best to buy.

    But this is again, my own feelings and preference. I havn't played ranked games in LoL so I might have been missing out, and probably have, on where the game really "starts".

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Euq View Post
    I've played dota(original one) for about 3 years, later switched over to HoN and have there played about 500 games. Then I decided to try LoL , got to about lvl 25 or 26. And now most recently I've soon to play about 200 games in Dota 2.

    Now for my own rankings It goes Dota2 > Hon > LoL.
    As many have said before, even tho Dota 2 have a lot of passive and simple spells it's the uniqness of each item that makes the game. That and that the game really is intense from minute one till the end.
    I didn't like items at all in LoL or the way you build your champion because it felt like you always build the same items because they were just the best to buy.

    But this is again, my own feelings and preference. I havn't played ranked games in LoL so I might have been missing out, and probably have, on where the game really "starts".
    Since Dota 2 was being released and they didnt want to look like a clone HoN changed A LOT of things so your ranking probably doesnt stand. For example you now get courier for free, the shops on the map have been moved around and some champions got overhauls. So yea, HoN is a dota-clone that is failing. I doubt they'll support the game for longer than a year from now.
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  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupin View Post
    Hey now, I didn't know DotA2 already had tournaments! Not on beta anymore?
    I'm so confused.
    Nearly every pro team has full beta keys, so they are a regular thing. Defense just finished a week or so ago. The game is already super polished for tournaments & Valve stated they are making this with high level play in mind. Spectator mode is fucking amazing. For tournaments & just DotA2 in general, I suggest gosugamers.net.

    There are 2 clients, the test & the normal. The test client is where they update w/new champs, tweaks, etc...after one week, making sure it is bug free, they update the regular client. That way, tournaments have a stable client to play on while the test client serves is job.

    OT, I've dropped LoL (except playin with friends) for DotA2. Like the game so much more.

    @ Fencers: Yes, only 1 map type, and that is the SR/DotA/Typical River down the middle map style. One thing to mention though is the map is much bigger. Partially why TP scrolls are so important.

    A Zaoly: That was due to people directly spectating the game & sharing the IP, causing significant lag. I expect Valve to add a closed lobby option. Also worthwhile was Quantic offering to forfeit the game if it wasn't able to reload since Na'Vi had it won pretty much.
    Last edited by Kurdiern; 2012-03-09 at 10:52 PM.

  8. #28
    I enjoy Dota2 far more because it actually requires planning, precise timing, and skill. Being a former IHL and CAL-I dota player when I tried LoL I couldn't believe they removed the act of denying from the game because to paraphrase riot "it just seems silly to kill your own units"
    That decision single handily removed any sort of lane control and skill from the Dota genre to me, the creep waves just move back and forth in predictable fashion.
    Any skilled dota player with patience and knowledge can keep a creep wave on his side of the map protecting himself from ganks and maximizing his own farm while denying the other team. The dota map is also considerably larger which creates a much larger need for planning, smaller margin of error, and greater penalty for roaming the map unsuccessfully

    The short cooldowns and low mana cost of LoL skills just makes it seem like spam happy zergfest with no strategy or evolving metagame.
    It is just overall more noob friendly,

    Dota is the superior formula IMO, just my 2 cents
    playing the beta and just loving it

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freezymcgee View Post
    Being a former IHL and CAL-I dota player when I tried LoL I couldn't believe they removed the act of denying from the game because to paraphrase riot "it just seems silly to kill your own units"
    Well, to be honest, having only played LoL, it really does seem silly. But I haven't seen how DotA/HoN works, so I wouldn't know any better.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftero View Post
    Well, to be honest, having only played LoL, it really does seem silly. But I haven't seen how DotA/HoN works, so I wouldn't know any better.
    You can attack your own minions once they're under %50 hp. So you last hit and also deny your own so the enemy can't. Also auto attacking your own minions make the lane go to your tower so its a win win. You can also deny towers that are under 130-150 hp.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Thigrai View Post
    You can attack your own minions once they're under %50 hp. So you last hit and also deny your own so the enemy can't. Also auto attacking your own minions make the lane go to your tower so its a win win. You can also deny towers that are under 130-150 hp.
    Interesting. That does seem like an odd mechanic to me as a non-DOTA player.

  12. #32
    I prefer LoL, it's much easier to "get the feel". DoTA seems a lot harder to me*, it's a good game, but harder. I don't like the secret shops it just complicates simple things
    further. However, I love some of the skills and I would like them in LoL as well.

    *I am not a crazy MOBA player either so, it's just personal preference, and I know more people in LoL overall.

  13. #33
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    What is the logic behind having those shops hidden away anyway?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    What is the logic behind having those shops hidden away anyway?
    There is no logic, actually. You have to understand, that DotA is a WC3 map, and it has numerous mechanics that are just a WC3 legacy. Shop system for example. You had to have an NPC in WC3 to have a shop. And it had a limited number of item slots. That's why the base shop in original dota was implemented as several NPC's standing next to the fountain, and that made the shop system VERY clunky.
    The stat system is another big example. RIOT got rid of "base" stats aka Strength, Agility, Intellect, and introduced the true base stats, aka HP, Attack Damage, Ability Power etc. Thats where AP carries come from. In DoTa there won't be AP carries. There can be an INT carry, but it's playstyle is no different from AGI (AD in lol terms) carry, actually. And having AP carries caused more reliance on skills (that is called a "spamfest"), and that in turn allowed heavy reliance on skillshots. In terms of core game design LoL is years ahead of DotA. No big surprise, DotA mechanics are old. To compensate that DotA has more powerful active items, that simply CANT make their way to LOL. Imagine having a powerful AP item (+80 AP or so) that has a 2-second fear on use. That would make some champs like soooo OP.
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  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    What is the logic behind having those shops hidden away anyway?
    Often many of the most powerful items have components built from there, so it adds a little bit of risk in getting these items. I've yet to encounter much risk going there though. Occasionally a perceptive enemy will realize where you are going and you'll have a skirmish. Nothing really to complain about, just adds one more thing to do. Whether you go there or your courier does.

    @ akts. What is "true" base stats? There is no real reason to define a "TRUE" set of base stats. Str/Int/Agi worked fine in DotA. Riot decided to make a design change and created all the things those 3 stats encompassed into their own with AP being their own unique to make casters scale a bit better into late game.

    In terms of core game design LoL is different than DotA2.
    Last edited by Kurdiern; 2012-03-10 at 10:58 AM.

  16. #36
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    What's the courier do?

  17. #37
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Courier is a unit that can hold 6 items and is able to move anywhere on the map. Think of it as your own personal servant to bring you items; a 7th unit on your team. Since you have a "stash," an inventory of your own back at base, couriers can take things from the stash and bring them to you. Anyone on your team can use it and if killed gives 150g to every member of the enemy team. It costs 170 gold to buy basic land courier and then 200 to upgrade to a flying (which moves faster & bypasses terrain).

    Courier is one of the significant differences between LoL & DotA. In DotA, heroes rarely back to base. There is no recall and the only way of getting around is a TP scroll which is 143g and has a 45 second CD. The map is also much larger. Heroes stay in lane much longer and complete/buy items and have them brought over. You can bring regeneration items, wards, dust, anything from the shop. If I'm doing a good job in lane, the first time I return to spawn is on my first death.

  18. #38
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Yea, just checked the DotA2. Seems like a nice addition... Have had games where it's a long time in and I'm still on my boots + 1 pot but with several k gold because the lane turned into a farm fest.

    From what you said though, it sounds like someone right at the start of the game is 170g down.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thigrai View Post
    Dota has no smart casting and it's very close to an RTS in the sense that champions are kind of slow. So in terms of clutch-skill and on the spot decision making League is leagues ahead. Dota usually has this one strategy you make up and follow as closely as you can. So think a more RTS-like LoL.
    iirc there's an option available, but it's not implemented yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Interesting. That does seem like an odd mechanic to me as a non-DOTA player.
    It's all strategy. Denying a creep keeps their team from farming and cuts the exp they earn from the deny. If you can deny 15+ in the first few waves and you've been last hitting properly.. You've already placed yourself at an advantage.

    As much as it'd help.. I don't really see the necessity for smartcast in Dota2 because of the fact that you don't spam your abilities at the rate you usually do in LoL. Don't get me wrong.. LoL is a great game, but it got too stale for me with new champs being a carbon copy in some form with an added ability or two.. (Copy as in having a dash, shield, steroid rage, etc.). And I never cared for Dominion. Ever since I got my Dota 2 key I haven't been back to LoL.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome akts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    @ akts. What is "true" base stats? There is no real reason to define a "TRUE" set of base stats. Str/Int/Agi worked fine in DotA. Riot decided to make a design change and created all the things those 3 stats encompassed into their own with AP being their own unique to make casters scale a bit better into late game.
    The true, or should I say Terminal stats are stats that are actually used in any combat calculations. Like armor, attack damage, attack speed.

    Agility stat increases Armor (1 for 50 iirc) attack speed (don't remeber the formula) and attack damage (for AGI-based heroes), and only by increasing those terminal stats AGI has an actual impact on hero's performance. On itself AGI does nothing unique, it only provides bonuses to other stats? That can't be said for armor, for example. Armor provides rng-independent physical damage mitigation, and no stat other than armor does that. That's why armor is the true stat, that anyone should be seeking. Does the game absolutely need those "base" stats? If no, get rid of them, occam's razor and all. That is why LoL is classified as "noob friendly". It has steamlined stat system, easier to remeber, not cluttered by some WC3 legacies.
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