1. #4561
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    because you wont do shit until lategame if you dont have Blinkstrike?
    He has low AS, passive critical is too low a chance to rely on, stun is random, so he needs some way to deliver his punch to his targets, and some kind of a team utility in the form of said Blinkstrike's pull of the enemy hero into proper position.
    Sven doesn't have a blinkstrike and his stun has less uptime than CK's does even if CK never gets anything more than 2 sec.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  2. #4562
    Bloodsail Admiral Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Sven doesn't have a blinkstrike and his stun has less uptime than CK's does even if CK never gets anything more than 2 sec.
    Sven's stun is an AoE one and is nearly undodgeable, not to mention that Ck's and Sven's stuns serve different purposes, where Sven uses it as nuke/mass disable/means to get close and WTFCLEAVE enemy team, and CK's stun is a random stun, nothing more.
    So no, you cant compare said stuns in a vacuum.

    p.s. here's a little test if you still think Blinkstrike is unneeded on CK.
    Play a game without Blinkstrike
    Fortress of Arrogance.
    Armour of Contempt.

    Sure as sure

  3. #4563
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Sven's stun is an AoE one and is nearly undodgeable, not to mention that Ck's and Sven's stuns serve different purposes, where Sven uses it as nuke/mass disable/means to get close and WTFCLEAVE enemy team, and CK's stun is a random stun, nothing more.
    So no, you cant compare said stuns in a vacuum.

    p.s. here's a little test if you still think Blinkstrike is unneeded on CK.
    Play a game without Blinkstrike
    +1

    Try playing without blinkstrike. You wont get anything done, as you'll most of the time fail to catch up without your stun.

  4. #4564
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Sven doesn't have a blinkstrike and his stun has less uptime than CK's does even if CK never gets anything more than 2 sec.
    CK uses ultimate.
    Sven uses rightclick. It's super effective!
    Sven has won the fight!

  5. #4565
    Yeah CK is a bad hero. Support carry at best. He's absolutely nothing without his ult, completely ignorable, and it doesn't last long and is easy to burn down with any moderate AoE. He's picked for his utility, not his damage.

  6. #4566
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Yeah CK is a bad hero. Support carry at best. He's absolutely nothing without his ult, completely ignorable, and it doesn't last long and is easy to burn down with any moderate AoE. He's picked for his utility, not his damage.
    Not only that but he also can't farm fast, only has single target abilities/damage and if you disable and nuke him before he can ulti his half-or-less hp illusions are easy to clean up.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Lysah reigns supreme!

  7. #4567
    Dont be hatin on my Chaos Knight. Hes a beautiful strong black knight who dont need no team.
    Seriously though, Chaos Knight is best when he snowballs. Couple him with whisp and its free kills everytime relocate is up
    Quote Originally Posted by icylock View Post
    Gamon spends more time of his knees and back than haris pilton...

  8. #4568
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidulgaa View Post
    Dont be hatin on my Chaos Knight. Hes a beautiful strong black knight who dont need no team.
    Seriously though, Chaos Knight is best when he snowballs. Couple him with whisp and its free kills everytime relocate is up
    To be fair, it's free kills with almost any carry with a disable when relocate's up. The games I've done with CK actually were with my friend playing wisp, and us ganking very aggressively and snowballing me, but in the end we both knew the kills were probably better off on another hero.

  9. #4569
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzfun View Post
    woot? kotl - 315 ms. pugna - 320. weaver - 290.
    that was a joke

  10. #4570
    Moderator Kerdoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Yeah CK is a bad hero. Support carry at best. He's absolutely nothing without his ult, completely ignorable, and it doesn't last long and is easy to burn down with any moderate AoE. He's picked for his utility, not his damage.
    Haha so true! Played a game yesterday with Sven.. They had CK, he popped ulti and I was like "Oh that is cute, BOOM"

  11. #4571
    His ult is a decent pushing tool, especially with DD, but that's really the most it can do, any sort of AoE or cleave will roast them before they can do anything.

  12. #4572
    Stood in the Fire MrDeadcruel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verba View Post
    They wont.. Hopefully at least.. I wouldn't wanna promote bad plays. Seriously though.

    The main generation that plays league of legends is 95-97 (1995~). Which is also the laziest generation. They want everything catered for them and they are getting it, which in itself promotes people to become even lazier when it comes to videogames. Good games will get bad reviews because it doesn't have sirens shooting out your ass saying that you're "Slowed" for example.

    Too hard games will get patched to become much more easy (Dark souls) etc etc.
    Noticed trend here where i live, we used to play always dota on Lan and Garena in net cafe where my generation 95 and the older ones like 90-91 played dota all ways together and it was fun, most of the older good players started playing only from home and now i cant find a single good 95 generation dota player in my area to play with found one 96 but still.... all i see these days is every one that used to play dota (95) switched to LoL but they were kind bad to begin with and all of the younger generations 96-99 all play LoL only and pretty much suck at games...

    Intel i5 3570k, Gigabyte 7870 OC 2GB AMD RADEON, Kingston Hyperx T1 2x4GB 1600mhz,
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  13. #4573
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Not only that but he also can't farm fast, only has single target abilities/damage and if you disable and nuke him before he can ulti his half-or-less hp illusions are easy to clean up.
    Yeah, I'm not saying he's good as a primary carry, but that he's disgusting as a sort of support-carry, and his performance is obscene for how brainlessly easy he is to play. Press W, press Q, and if you have teammates anywhere nearby, you just got a free kill. He's also strong in lane for the same reasons, in addition to very high base movement speed and generous HP pool due to being strength.

    Again, I just don't understand why a strength hero with a stormbolt needs a blink strike. Both Sven and Leoric can stick to targets without one, and Leoric doesn't even have an MS steroid like Sven or higher than average MS like CK... so why does CK need it? Or if he does need it, why is it so goddamned cheap to cast?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  14. #4574
    Immortal Tommo's Avatar
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    Just played Centaur Noobrunner in a single draft, I dont play him often but I have a 100% winrate on him im pretty sure. God he pubstomps hard, once you have a blink dagger its GG.

    Also, question, when you guys play Rubick as support in bot or something, do you find it tolerable? I find it painful if I dont have a force staff as soon as is humanly possible. It seems as though hes so wasted as a support, but not as much of a wrecking ball as other mid heros. However he does trash the tri lane.

    I prefer him middle and im boss on him but I dont like how limited I am when I get forced to support.

  15. #4575
    Moderator Kerdoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Just played Centaur Noobrunner in a single draft, I dont play him often but I have a 100% winrate on him im pretty sure. God he pubstomps hard, once you have a blink dagger its GG.

    Also, question, when you guys play Rubick as support in bot or something, do you find it tolerable? I find it painful if I dont have a force staff as soon as is humanly possible. It seems as though hes so wasted as a support, but not as much of a wrecking ball as other mid heros. However he does trash the tri lane.

    I prefer him middle and im boss on him but I dont like how limited I am when I get forced to support.
    I would never ever support on Rubick.. Mid to pewpew is the only way to go with him. Go boots and bottle and depending on what setup I am against blink or force staff. After that it is pretty much gg.

  16. #4576
    Immortal Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerdozia View Post
    I would never ever support on Rubick.. Mid to pewpew is the only way to go with him. Go boots and bottle and depending on what setup I am against blink or force staff. After that it is pretty much gg.
    I despise it also, one of my pet peeves is when people expect me to buy wards / all the couriers because im SUPPORT.

    I dont mind buying wards or flying courier, but dont expect me to pull your camps aswell. Rubicks a much better enabler and a person who can turn the tide of a teamfight rather than a solid support. Its irritating getting bullied out of mid lane because your team will lose otherwise.

    No love for the magus!

  17. #4577
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Just played Centaur Noobrunner in a single draft, I dont play him often but I have a 100% winrate on him im pretty sure. God he pubstomps hard, once you have a blink dagger its GG.

    Also, question, when you guys play Rubick as support in bot or something, do you find it tolerable? I find it painful if I dont have a force staff as soon as is humanly possible. It seems as though hes so wasted as a support, but not as much of a wrecking ball as other mid heros. However he does trash the tri lane.

    I prefer him middle and im boss on him but I dont like how limited I am when I get forced to support.
    I haven't played Centaur in a while. Last time I played him, only thing that felt really dumb was Double Edge costing no mana and/or being AOE... made it too easy for him to farm quickly.

    I tried playing support Rubick a little while ago and it's pretty painful after his nerfs. I don't think he's a very good support anymore... between the Fade Bolt nerf and move speed nerf, he's like a squishier Crystal Maiden.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  18. #4578
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Again, I just don't understand why a strength hero with a stormbolt needs a blink strike. Both Sven and Leoric can stick to targets without one, and Leoric doesn't even have an MS steroid like Sven or higher than average MS like CK... so why does CK need it? Or if he does need it, why is it so goddamned cheap to cast?
    Did you try to play CK without RR? That's not even a bad idea if you really don't know why it's important. CK's dilemma is that he needs his illusions to deal reliable damage, his illusions need health to survive which is why he needs to invest in STR (instead of other stats) to deal damage which makes him even more dependent on his illusions. Unlike other illusions heroes, his set is on a long cooldown too. Now you need to do the magic trick of dealing damage with melee illusions - You Chaos Bolt a running enemy and even if you land a 4 second stun you're lucky if all your illusions get one hit in and all your movement speed won't stop them from blocking each other while they try to get there. Reality Rift is important not only because it's a good ability for ganks and small skirmishes but because it actually allows you to deal constant and reliable damage with your ultimate.

    Compare to other melee illusion heroes - Naga Siren has a 5 second Ensnare/Riptide/Song/short cooldowns, PL has spammable snares and a horde of low-collision illusions, Terrorblade solves his problems by making his illusions in ranged form. Spectre and Dark Seer are sort of special cases and solve their own problems anyway. I would prefer to play CK with a CB that always lands as a 2 (or even just 1) and RR than a CK with a guaranteed 4 second CB and no RR.

    >cheap to cast

    70 mana is more than average for a blink ability and without extra int from items at level 2 CB+RR is your entire manapool. I cringe at the words "free kill", but if free turns out to be not so free you're nothing but a merry horse on a lane inviting your enemies to farm freely until you can find yourself some more mana. Few more numbers because I like them, without mana from items or from leveling stats you don't have mana for RR+CB+Phantasm until level 9 (somewhat irrelevant) and RR+CB+rank2Phantasm until level 14 (more relevant.) For a hero that can't flash farm you have to spend a notable amount of gold (for items that don't give you damage) if you want to be relevant in the game more often than every 5 minutes. I wouldn't call that cheap.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-12-28 at 05:32 AM.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Lysah reigns supreme!

  19. #4579
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post

    Also, question, when you guys play Rubick as support in bot or something, do you find it tolerable? I find it painful if I dont have a force staff as soon as is humanly possible. It seems as though hes so wasted as a support, but not as much of a wrecking ball as other mid heros. However he does trash the tri lane.

    I prefer him middle and im boss on him but I dont like how limited I am when I get forced to support.
    As someone who's been playing support Rubick almost exclusively for the past few days...limited? Rubick's laning presence is, in my opinion, one of the strongest disablers out there. The lift isn't only a stun, it can put someone out of position, combined with almost any other disable, or even just more nuking, guaranteeing a kill. He isn't very reliant on items either. His high base intelligence and int gain give a pretty strong mana pool, after wand/arcane/force any mana problems usually go away. As for the general supporting, the lack of need for items opens up plenty of gold for wards/dust/etc.

    Obviously his role in team fights will depend on what you've stolen previously, but it's fairly tough to go wrong here. Overall, he's a strong mid, but just as strong support, easily netting early game kills in top/bot lanes.

  20. #4580
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    70 mana is more than average for a blink ability and without extra int from items at level 2 CB+RR is your entire manapool. I cringe at the words "free kill", but if free turns out to be not so free you're nothing but a merry horse on a lane inviting your enemies to farm freely until you can find yourself some more mana. Few more numbers because I like them, without mana from items or from leveling stats you don't have mana for RR+CB+Phantasm until level 9 (somewhat irrelevant) and RR+CB+rank2Phantasm until level 14 (more relevant.) For a hero that can't flash farm you have to spend a notable amount of gold (for items that don't give you damage) if you want to be relevant in the game more often than every 5 minutes. I wouldn't call that cheap.
    It's cheap when you factor in things like magic stick and teammates with arcane boots. Take that for what you will. His full combo is expensive, yeah, but I feel a lot of his usefulness simply comes from the fact he can crap out a potentially Black Hole-length storm bolt every 10 seconds, and he has a sort of poor man's Telekinesis grab every 6 seconds. The illusions are fantastic when they work right, but I'd almost go to the extent of saying CK isn't a real carry, he's more of a sort of utility-carry or support-carry. You're completely right when you say his damage is pretty laughable without his ulti, and that his ulti doesn't last very long relative to its cooldown.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 01:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    As someone who's been playing support Rubick almost exclusively for the past few days...limited? Rubick's laning presence is, in my opinion, one of the strongest disablers out there. The lift isn't only a stun, it can put someone out of position, combined with almost any other disable, or even just more nuking, guaranteeing a kill. He isn't very reliant on items either. His high base intelligence and int gain give a pretty strong mana pool, after wand/arcane/force any mana problems usually go away. As for the general supporting, the lack of need for items opens up plenty of gold for wards/dust/etc.

    Obviously his role in team fights will depend on what you've stolen previously, but it's fairly tough to go wrong here. Overall, he's a strong mid, but just as strong support, easily netting early game kills in top/bot lanes.
    He just feels too vulnerable for a duo lane hard support anymore; he's squishier than Crystal Maiden without her slow-stun combo and now isn't much faster than her. I've seen him used very successfully as a trilane hard support in recent pro games, though.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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