1. #4621
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    I was hoping to back up Warlock compared to Dazzle and Omni, but wow, I really can't after looking at the numbers.

    That being said, I still wouldn't be surprised if he was still picked solely for Fatal Bonds, it can't be denied, that spell is amazing for almost any situation, and works so well in conjunction with most AoE heavy heroes. My friend and I have already been talking about running a Medusa/Warlock lane when she's out, and just going nuts with Fatal Bonds and Split Shot.
    Yeah, Dazzle pumps out more healing than anyone or anything else in the game. 140*6 every 6 seconds is pretty incredible. I don't really think there's a better babysitter than Dazzle, and he's good on his own, too.

    Warlock gets pretty funny once you have Refresher. Multiple casts of Fatal Bonds stack, so you can 40% damage sharing on linked targets, which can lead to some pretty hilarious results if you have a teammate with a major AOE nuke. Zeus, Sand King, Qop, Lesh, etc.

    The golems are actually phenomenal at pushing if you have Agh's as well since their auras stack (four golems together is equal to 200 DPS to everything in a 250 radius), but there's no way you'd have Refresher+Agh's unless that game was won, anyway.

    I think Warlock would be a lot better if his golems lasted longer and/or were just better. They're worth a whopping 200 gold at level 16 (or 100 apiece if you have Agh's), and 360 move speed just ain't enough to catch heroes at that stage of the game... nor are 320 or 340 enough at the level 6 and level 11 stages of the game. They can do some impressive damage if they can get next to something and stay next to it, but that doesn't really happen much, and with a nearly 3 minute cooldown on the ulti, the golems don't last very long in comparison.
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  2. #4622
    Stood in the Fire Rivenda's Avatar
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    How does the matchmaking work in Dota 2? Is it like WoW Arena where you gain points for winning and lose points when you lose? Or is it just fixing you up with people on your level..
    Yesterday my friends and I hit a wall we own 1 out of 8 games, which was completely outrageus. It made us wonder how the matchmaking does work, we got pretty much woop ass despite being on TS..
    We are around 7-8 in the level.
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  3. #4623
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    And because I really want people to play Dazzle more since he's so fun, do this:

    Start with tangos, clarities, and 3 branches. You can buy a 4th branch if you want, expect to buy chicken or wards.

    Buy sobi mask and then basic boots in lane. Find out who's getting drums. If you're getting drums, buy a bracer. If you aren't getting drums, finish urn. Build medallion of courage afterwards regardless of which. If you're getting drums, finish drums after medallion.

    Finish phase boots. Urn/Drums give you HP, phase boots and medallion make your damage notable, and the stats combine with your naturally high INT to eliminate mana issues. Make Agh's next, start with either ogre club or point booster, you can buy point booster before finishing drums or whatever if you'd like.

    Assuming you're being pigeonholed into a support role like in your average pub, take E at level 1 and max it at 7, take W when you can't take E. Take ulti at 6, 11, and 16. Get a point in Q at level 8 and forget about it, max W at 10. Stats when you can't take ulti, finish Q after you've got maxed stats. We're skipping Q in this build because it needs to be maxed early for best effect, and you need those stats to stay alive (and keep grave available for teammates instead of yourself) once late game starts rolling around and carries can start hitting for 400 damage a pop. Q carries a microstun on impact and that's the only reason we're getting it at all.

    Makes it virtually impossible for your lane to get fucked between Shallow Grave and your heal. You probably won't get a lot of kills unless your lanemate has a lot of control skills or your mid ganks, but your lane will be very hard to gank. You can use your E to quickly nuke down small and medium jungle camps for extra XP and gold, and combined with medallion and weave it can actually produce a respectable nuke (probably in the 200ish range on a debuffed STR hero or low-armor INT) and you can spam it to keep creep waves healthy during pushes.

    Mekansm is another really good item for Dazzle, but since we're talking about pubs, I don't like playing supports as "I am 110% reliant on my team for anything," urn gives you a dot to finish people off with in addition to the stats, and phase boots + medallion and weave allows you to right-click pretty hard for someone without damage items, at least through the midgame.

    Weave is really underestimated, it makes a colossal difference. Weave your team and you can dive towers. Weave an enemy and slap him with medallion and he's instantly into negative armor unless he's an agility carry.

    Since you're maxing heal and grave first, play really aggressive once you leave lane. Setup ganks constantly, the low cooldown and huge range on grave allows your teammates to do frankly suicidal shit and get away with it, just don't do it near an Axe (his ulti will kill you, grave or not.) If you're going urn, you should leave lane and begin roaming around once urn is done, otherwise you should probably wait until 6-7. In the earlier stages of the midgame, don't underestimate Dazzle's damage. He has good range, fantastic animation, and his stat growth means he has high base damage. This combines very well with Medallion. Don't forget that all of his spells do physical damage - always debuff the enemy with medallion and/or weave before you start in on them.

    If you get solo mid, get a point of your heal at 4 for utility purposes and instead aim to have Poison Touch maxed at 7. Get boots first and otherwise stick to the plan; don't bother with bottle, you don't need it, and early boots will make it easier for you to prevent enemy mid from getting runes. Use Poison Touch like Qop uses her daggers - get close, right click, poison them, and continue stutter-stepping (attack, move while on attack cooldown, stop and attack, repeat) after them to get more hits in. At level 7, poison touch has 100% uptime as long as you have mana, and you have a minor heal and grave to bail yourself out, so be aggressive. Dazzle's harass becomes surprisingly good once you finish Medallion.

    Not the only way to play Dazzle, but I reckon it's the best for pubs at my level. Pros can probably get away with no-items hard support, but that's due to teamwork you aren't going to get in a pub.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-12-29 at 11:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  4. #4624
    The Patient Varix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Yeah, Dazzle pumps out more healing than anyone or anything else in the game. 140*6 every 6 seconds is pretty incredible. I don't really think there's a better babysitter than Dazzle, and he's good on his own, too.
    I'm inclined to say that Lich can rival him, simply because of Sacrifice (And also Frost Blast of course). I love me some Dazzle, he's currently sitting as one of my most succesful heroes, but the main problem he faces is getting decent levels as a lane support. Which is why I prefer playing him mid or in a kill-lane, rather than babysitting people.

    ...Speaking of most succesful heroes, I'm curious about you guys, mind sharing?


  5. #4625
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varix View Post
    I'm inclined to say that Lich can rival him, simply because of Sacrifice (And also Frost Blast of course). I love me some Dazzle, he's currently sitting as one of my most succesful heroes, but the main problem he faces is getting decent levels as a lane support. Which is why I prefer playing him mid or in a kill-lane, rather than babysitting people.

    ...Speaking of most succesful heroes, I'm curious about you guys, mind sharing?

    Hell, I haven't checked. Omni and Rubick, I think the third is Veno because he was OP for so long. Most played/most favorite heroes are probably Omni, Dazzle, and Doomy, though. Haven't played Rubick much since his nerfs, he just feels really difficult to do well with in a support role in pubs now that he's so slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  6. #4626
    Quote Originally Posted by Varix View Post
    ...Speaking of most succesful heroes, I'm curious about you guys, mind sharing?

    Vengeful Spirit, Windrunner, Ancient Apparition. Because the game only accounts for wins those are pretty much most played heroes too with 70+ games each. Come think of it, if I count DotA and Andromeda from HoN I've easily clocked over 150 games with Venge, maybe up to 200.

    @pizzashark I have to kind of disagree on Dazzle, he isn't that great on some lanes and I prefer the 3-1-1 or 3-0-2 build over 0-x-y in 85% of games. Surely you can make it very hard for enemies to get kills on your lanes, but with Dazzle and especially without PT you're kind of lacking in being able to guarantee your carrys farm, put pressure on solo lanes or win lanes that are even in numbers. The healing spam build isn't bad but pretty situational. However with 3 points in Poison Touch you have a very powerful disable which also allows you to set up really damaging Shadow Waves against unaware enemies.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-12-29 at 12:45 PM.
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  7. #4627
    The Patient
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    ^^

  8. #4628
    Moderator Kerdoz's Avatar
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    Was actually pretty shocked that Zeus was in the top 3

  9. #4629

  10. #4630

  11. #4631
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Vengeful Spirit, Windrunner, Ancient Apparition. Because the game only accounts for wins those are pretty much most played heroes too with 70+ games each. Come think of it, if I count DotA and Andromeda from HoN I've easily clocked over 150 games with Venge, maybe up to 200.

    @pizzashark I have to kind of disagree on Dazzle, he isn't that great on some lanes and I prefer the 3-1-1 or 3-0-2 build over 0-x-y in 85% of games. Surely you can make it very hard for enemies to get kills on your lanes, but with Dazzle and especially without PT you're kind of lacking in being able to guarantee your carrys farm, put pressure on solo lanes or win lanes that are even in numbers. The healing spam build isn't bad but pretty situational. However with 3 points in Poison Touch you have a very powerful disable which also allows you to set up really damaging Shadow Waves against unaware enemies.
    I just can't imagine playing without Shallow Grave maxed by time midgame and teamfighting starts. 5 seconds of invulnerability cast from a screen away on a 15 second cooldown is just nuts, far beyond anything else he brings. I dunno. I really like Poison Touch, especially since its buff making rank 4 actually worth taking, but it seems like it's Poison Touch and Shallow Grave, or Shadow Wave and Shallow Grave. I just don't like the idea of going so long with a low level Grave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  12. #4632
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivenda View Post
    How does the matchmaking work in Dota 2? Is it like WoW Arena where you gain points for winning and lose points when you lose? Or is it just fixing you up with people on your level..
    Yesterday my friends and I hit a wall we own 1 out of 8 games, which was completely outrageus. It made us wonder how the matchmaking does work, we got pretty much woop ass despite being on TS..
    We are around 7-8 in the level.
    It's a huge mystery.

    But yeah, level doesn't matter.


    Yeah uhh I'm pretty sure this is based flatly on win amount, not even win ratio or anything. Lel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
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    We must be rivals or something.

  13. #4633
    Dreadlord Nightfury Treann's Avatar
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    Hah, i haven't played with Brood for a long time and it's still there.
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  14. #4634


    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    We must be rivals or something.
    fight me irl
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    people who smoke weed past primary school dont deserve jobs.

    weed is for little kids. you should stop smoking it and move on to real people things

  15. #4635

  16. #4636
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    what a game 0o
    Yeah I watched the entire DK v LGD series on LD's youtube channel, some pretty amazing games. Asian teams are just so far ahead of western teams.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  17. #4637
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Yeah I watched the entire DK v LGD series on LD's youtube channel, some pretty amazing games. Asian teams are just so far ahead of western teams.
    Watched them live, but that's bit of a bit funny sentiment if you consider that these two teams were fighting against elimination in their group - group which was actually won by LGD.int.

    But hey, technically they're an asian team too.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  18. #4638
    Warlock RoC golems are a lot tougher than they appear. With bonds up they are meleeing for a good 200+ total damage when they crush + their immolation aura which has a fairly large AoE around them. Considering Warlock will ult very early on in a fight (if not first person to ult out of all 10) the golem will actually do a lot of damage over the course of a team fight. I wouldn't underestimate how much total damage it can do meleeing a support for 10 seconds with bonds on 3-5 people. People used to buy diffusal blade just to quickly take care of golems in a fight, they're actually really good if Warlock can get them out at a point in the team fight where you don't have the time to run away/nuke them down.


    I like strength heroes.

    All in all, Warlock is one of the best AoE casters for damage over time. He's not popular right now because team fights don't last more than 3 seconds in most lineups (one good black hole/RP usually ends a fight against 3 support 1 carry teams). His spells all have ridiculous cooldowns which gives him a huge skill cap - if you screw up and blow bonds too early you just made it 4v5 for your allies. He's decent in lane but plenty of others support better, he's more of a caster carry hybrid like Necro and shouldn't get sucked into buying jango mek wards crow for his team, because, with his long cooldowns/no CC/no survivability he will die if he stays at 800 health the entire game. Get scepter/refresher/atos on Warlock and you will respect him a lot more. He's not bad at last hitting like most other supports, for a reason.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-12-29 at 09:17 PM.
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  19. #4639

  20. #4640
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    All in all, Warlock is one of the best AoE casters for damage over time. He's not popular right now because team fights don't last more than 3 seconds in most lineups (one good black hole/RP usually ends a fight against 3 support 1 carry teams). His spells all have ridiculous cooldowns which gives him a huge skill cap - if you screw up and blow bonds too early you just made it 4v5 for your allies. He's decent in lane but plenty of others support better, he's more of a caster carry hybrid like Necro and shouldn't get sucked into buying jango mek wards crow for his team, because, with his long cooldowns/no CC/no survivability he will die if he stays at 800 health the entire game. Get scepter/refresher/atos on Warlock and you will respect him a lot more. He's not bad at last hitting like most other supports, for a reason.
    That's a pretty good assessment. As of now chasing and ganking power are more important and a Warlock player needs to be able to read situations correctly or they'll end up wasting their abilities. RoC + Bonds is great initiation, but you need your team to follow up rapidly to make anything out of it. In pub play, if your team is sleeping your perfect initiation turns into perfect waste of your cooldowns. Warlock is good in extended fighting, but even if he can kill the enemy team in 10 seconds it's not good if his team dies first or either team is running away after the first 5.

    It's been a while since the last time I played (randomed) Warlock but I liked rushing a BKB just to sit around channeling Upheaval because why not.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

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