1. #4901
    Heavily depends on your picks, strategies, enemy strategies, enemy picks, etc etc. I don't even want to give you a generalization because it's so all over the place.

  2. #4902
    Over 9000! PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    9,885
    Just seems like once you have a few items it's mostly just "pop BKB, blink in, right click." Maybe I'm missing something though.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    It is impossible for a tear of sadness to land on a Warrior Beard. As soon as the tear lands on the Warrior Beard, it is now a happy tear.
    5:10 AM - Everything Nice: PizzaSHARK, you're my stand in! You're promoted to like.. Semi-bestfriend.
    MMOC IRC!

  3. #4903
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Just seems like once you have a few items it's mostly just "pop BKB, blink in, right click." Maybe I'm missing something though.
    Maybe if you're Magnus Sven.

  4. #4904
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Are the skill demands for carries considered to be equal to the skill demands for supports?
    If your expectations for carries is to "farm and kill shit" at all ratings, but your expectations for supports go up as you go up in rating, I would say it is roughly equal. Assuming that farming safely and not feeding is more difficult as you go up in rating, it becomes more difficult for both. I would say (from personal experience) that it is a lot easier to rise in rating while playing supports (in public MMR games). That might just be because on average people tend to pick carries more though. I don't know.
    dotabuff . second dotabuff . steam . last fm . read the god damn stickies and join "mmo-champion" channel in dota 2

  5. #4905
    Over 9000! PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    9,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    Maybe if you're Magnus Sven.
    Seems like it works for Sylla and AM just fine, too. Sylla needs a couple items, before that he requires some micro, but after that it really just seems like you right-click the bear on something and let Entangle do the rest.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    It is impossible for a tear of sadness to land on a Warrior Beard. As soon as the tear lands on the Warrior Beard, it is now a happy tear.
    5:10 AM - Everything Nice: PizzaSHARK, you're my stand in! You're promoted to like.. Semi-bestfriend.
    MMOC IRC!

  6. #4906
    Moderator llDemonll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    6,583
    that's how most carries are...

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
    BF3 Profile | Steam Profile | Assemble a Computer in 9.75 Steps! | Video Rendering Done Right

  7. #4907
    And all supports just run in and roll their faces across their buttons until they've CC'd as many people as possible.

    etc etc

  8. #4908
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    If your expectations for carries is to "farm and kill shit" at all ratings, but your expectations for supports go up as you go up in rating, I would say it is roughly equal. Assuming that farming safely and not feeding is more difficult as you go up in rating, it becomes more difficult for both. I would say (from personal experience) that it is a lot easier to rise in rating while playing supports (in public MMR games). That might just be because on average people tend to pick carries more though. I don't know.
    As a carry, you depend on your team mates. It's really easy to not feed as long as you are protected well, or get required help from your team mates. Only obligation you have is farming effectively. I think supports are harder to playbecause it requires macro'ng units, good positioning and good decision making. This applies all kind of roles in DotA but I think it's harder to exercise on supports. If you are out of position all the time, as a support, you will feed but if you are well supported as a carry items will help decreasing the consequence of mistakes you made. Only problem with carries is that your one mistakes, sometimes, can make you lose game, This does not apply to supports, mostly. Anyway, I think all roles involve different difficulties but my opinion is that supports are harder to play.

  9. #4909
    Stood in the Fire Rivenda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    478
    If you wanna have some good fun atleast for the lower MMR pick: Lion, Drow, Siper, Lich and TH. Lion and Sniper takes easy lane and should be able to get a kill ones level 6, Drow in mid, and Lich and TH for hard lane. This is a really good fun and working combo, Lich as Support with Mek ofcause and the lovely AoE Ulti and combine that would TH Ulti... sweet times.
    Oderint dum metuat.
    Success is dependent on effort.

  10. #4910
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,509
    Holy shit im about to kill a puppy with the sheer amount of hatred ive stored up after my last game.

    >on weaver trying to farm up
    >ES my support, keeps hitting the creeps maknig it impossible for me
    >doesnt deny once against a centaur noobrunner

    >40minutes into the game courier isnt upgraded
    >no wards ever
    >blames me for everything (im 2-2-7 after he kept fucking up his stuns causing me to get assists)
    >his mouthbreathing friend joins in

    GOD, can the influx of shit players please just leave. Dota 2's community was immense before they gave out 50k invites.

  11. #4911
    Game difficulty, in my opinion
    Hybrid carry (sven, tiny, SB) > hybrid support (necro, puck, kroberus, OD) > hypercarry (AM, PA, drow) > support (CM, dazzle) > int carry (qop, tinker)

    Getting no farm because you're always ganking and still coming out late game with items is harder than going AFK in the woods protecting someone and buying nothing but wards all game. Having your team rely on you to never, ever die and AFK farm effectively so you can save them against team pushes mid to late and win the game is difficult, if you're not an A+ last hitter and map watcher you probably should never pick hard carry (which is, surprisingly to me, most people - even good players can be terrible last hitters). Still, buying wards and protecting people and somehow managing to remain useful late game is very difficult, and there is a huge difference between a good support player and a bad support player. I would say that the only role you can pick where you can't possibly impress anyone is caster carry.

    It's no wonder most team anchors play carry and go mid. These roles are not only the most important, they are the hardest to pull off against organized and skilled enemies. A good support can make a huge difference in many games, but a bad support can still run in, stun/ult, die and have been useful. Support is generally what you tell new players to pick because they aren't so important. Keep in mind I'm not saying playing support in general is easy, only fulfilling your role on the team is easy, and therefore I can't argue that it's very difficult to be a support player overall.

    I'll say, I almost always play hybrid carry because it is way more demanding of me than other roles. I randomed Wisp last night and it was all standard play. Teleport around for ganks, see ally getting ganked and go teleport in to save him or die so he can get away. 20 minutes in we have BKB daedalus DK and manta lothars SF and its just overcharge and go afk while they kill everything.



    SA is a good pick for certain teams because his backstab damage is ENORMOUS. As early as level 5 he can already be hitting for 100+ after armor when most heroes have 500-600 health. Once he's 6 you basically have to sentry the entire map because he can and (if he's a good player) will gank everywhere. SA is my favorite counter pick to afk farm furions and ESPECIALLY radiance rushing syllabears. Give him a hero like Slithice (net>cloud) or SD (disrupt>SC>cloud) and he will even smash his lane with his damage. If you can give him a support that forces people to run away, he will kill them.

    That said, late game and in a straight up fight he easily loses to many hyper carries (jugg). Anyone who can stand still and just look at him vastly cuts his damage down so he's on a limited timer to do as much damage as possible and get items before the enemy can afford to group up and put gem on a BKB'd carry. People don't like him much for this reason, I believe. Losing the game because you let it go on too long is always a bad feeling.


    As a side note, the blame game in DotA community gets pretty old, I agree. I saw Merlini go rush BoT>radiance on jugg and can't believe I never considered that (only way to play now). Naturally, I had to farm for a bit after I got BoT and by the time I had relic at 18 minutes (I'd say BoT/relic at 18 is pretty decent farm) my team had already died 15 times total trying to push bottom tower. If you know your allies are top and mid, why do you try to 3 man push with 5 mia? And then you go and blame your hypercarry for farming 15 minutes into the game when it's your own fault for trying to team fight without a team. People need to learn that if they die, sure, it can be someone else's fault, but it will always be theirs as well. Die saving a carry? Sure, it's his fault for going out of position, but you still made the decision to jump in and get in the way. Die defending a tower team won't help with? Sure, they should've come, but you made the decision to die defending an already dead tower. Died in a team fight because someone else screwed up his spells? This one's the hardest to accept but there's always something else you could've done other than relying on other people. Maybe if you're in an organized team of 5 it's okay to rely on others, but in public games? Recipe for disaster if you ask me.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2013-01-04 at 09:57 PM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  12. #4912
    The Lightbringer Celltrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    3,719
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Holy shit im about to kill a puppy with the sheer amount of hatred ive stored up after my last game.

    >on weaver trying to farm up
    >ES my support, keeps hitting the creeps maknig it impossible for me
    >doesnt deny once against a centaur noobrunner

    >40minutes into the game courier isnt upgraded
    >no wards ever
    >blames me for everything (im 2-2-7 after he kept fucking up his stuns causing me to get assists)
    >his mouthbreathing friend joins in

    GOD, can the influx of shit players please just leave. Dota 2's community was immense before they gave out 50k invites.

    You call them shit players, I call them Russians. What you went through is NOTHING.

    Have you ever:
    -got your courier killed over and over and over again intentionally by a greifing ally
    -get the items from the courier stolen/destroyed?
    -0/16 level 5 Oge Magi in minute 20
    -PA coming to you mid while you play Invoker and steals all your farm and experience?
    -seen "cyka"
    -seen "blyat"

    I did, and they were all Russian. Surprisingly, when I went to the Asian servers all of these problems disappeared, and people were talking ENGLISH ...on an ASIAN sever, and not on the European ones. They were also drawing arrows on the minimap and not genitals. However there was lag. Horrible, tremendous lag.
    Last edited by Celltrex; 2013-01-04 at 10:11 PM.

  13. #4913
    Quote Originally Posted by Celltrex View Post
    They were also drawing arrows on the minimap and not genitals.
    whats wrong with penises on minimap ;c ?


    on a serious note, you are implaying that only russians are bad
    which is not true


    and we already were warned about nation bashing so lets stop this topic now
    Last edited by Finear; 2013-01-04 at 10:13 PM.

  14. #4914
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Celltrex View Post
    You call them shit players, I call them Russians. What you went through is NOTHING.

    Have you ever:
    -got your courier killed over and over and over again intentionally by a greifing ally
    -get the items from the courier stolen/destroyed?
    -0/16 level 5 Oge Magi in minute 20
    -PA coming to you mid while you play Invoker and steals all your farm and experience?

    I did, and they were all Russian. Surprisingly, when I went to the Asian servers all of these problems disappeared, and people were talking ENGLISH ...on an ASIAN sever, and not on the European ones. They were also drawing arrows on the minimap and not genitals. However there was lag. Horrible, tremendous lag.
    Shit like this happens way too often, I had 2 russians and 1 chinese player in that last game. 1 spoke english, the other just copied the bad english he spoke.

    Its hard to tell them to do stuff when they dont understand you.

  15. #4915
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    >40minutes into the game courier isnt upgraded
    >no wards ever
    Buy them yourself. It's worth the gold even if you are playing a hard carry like Faceless Void. 200 gold completely prevents most ganks in pub games as people are far less likely to use smoke. You lose more than that if you die just a single time. They're pretty much the most OP (and cost effective) item in the game.

  16. #4916
    The Lightbringer Celltrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    3,719
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    whats wrong with penises on minimap ;c ?


    on a serious note, you are implaying that only russians are bad
    which is not true


    and we already were warned about nation bashing so lets stop this topic now

    I am not implying that but Jesus...lots of Russians+them not being able to talk English is a bad combination for a team game, on a server where you are expected to talk in English. This is why Blizzard did the right thing with the region lock. Even Riot did better.

    Also, this guy has the guts to do this on stream. Hilarious : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZ_fctnakE
    Last edited by Celltrex; 2013-01-04 at 10:19 PM.

  17. #4917
    Quote Originally Posted by Celltrex View Post
    Even Riot did better.
    no, they didnt

    region lock sucks
    EOT

  18. #4918
    The Lightbringer Celltrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    3,719
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    no, they didnt

    region lock sucks
    EOT

    Yes, they did. My gameplay experience as well as many others' gameplay experience, has severely improved after English started to appear more often in chat.

  19. #4919
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    Buy them yourself. It's worth the gold even if you are playing a hard carry like Faceless Void. 200 gold completely prevents most ganks in pub games as people are far less likely to use smoke. You lose more than that if you die just a single time. They're pretty much the most OP (and cost effective) item in the game.
    The only reason I didnt buy it, was to prove a point in a game we were never going to win. (doom had divine + radiance + heart within 30mins.. HOW THE HELL?!)

    If we had a chance I would have bought it.

  20. #4920
    The Lightbringer Celltrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    3,719
    Question: I cannot seem to understand how does Quick Buy works? Why would you drag those items in that box? Isn't there a stash?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •