1. #5641
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    4 sec stun that does 360 damage at 775 range on a 16 second cooldown.

    Buy a BKB.
    It's also AoE.

  2. #5642
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Unstable concoction is the biggest fucking bullshit ever. You start to cast it, that's all good and then your silenced or stunned or whatever other bullshit and you can't do shit. It's so fucking frustrating. You want to play a hero but his ability has such a huge glaring obvious achilles heal and you get fucked over for picking or randoming him. It's horse shit.
    Hi I main Alch I guarantee you it's an l2p issue.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 08:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    While I may be wrong, I believe that number is there because of engine limitations.
    What number? The bash?

  3. #5643
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    It's also AoE.
    Yeah, they did make it one didn't they? It's also good for self-denial.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  4. #5644
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Yeah, they did make it one didn't they? It's also good for self-denial.
    It's pretty shit for denying because the only way you'll reasonably get away from people who could just kill you while it's charging is to pop your ulti which will most likely regen a shitton before it pops off.

  5. #5645
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    It's pretty shit for denying because the only way you'll reasonably get away from people who could just kill you while it's charging is to pop your ulti which will most likely regen a shitton before it pops off.
    It's better than the method most heroes get, which is none.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  6. #5646
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    It's better than the method most heroes get, which is none.
    Run into neutral camp.
    ??????????

  7. #5647
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    Dem neutrals too strong, of course you can pull that off, but theres not always the possibility to run into a neutral camp.

    Alch can pull his one off everywhere but it's pretty hard if your Ultimate just regens you out of deny HP
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  8. #5648
    I've never actually dared attempt deny another player. Feels like the sort of thing they'd get irrationally pissed about.

    Bread is the paper of the food industry.
    You write your sandwich on it.



  9. #5649
    No one gets mad at being denied unless you're a hero with 200 damage and kill them when they had 150 hp and were on the last tick of gale.

  10. #5650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    I've never actually dared attempt deny another player. Feels like the sort of thing they'd get irrationally pissed about.
    People get pissed about everything. Irrational being the key word
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #5651
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    No one gets mad at being denied unless you're a hero with 200 damage and kill them when they had 150 hp and were on the last tick of gale.
    Why not? I don't understand ze scenario. Which is also why I will never attempt to deny anyone out of fear

    Bread is the paper of the food industry.
    You write your sandwich on it.



  12. #5652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Why not? I don't understand ze scenario. Which is also why I will never attempt to deny anyone out of fear
    Well, gale wouldn't do enough damage on the last tick to kill them so they'd be dying unnecessarily
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  13. #5653
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    What number? The bash?
    Yes.

    /10chars

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 02:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Why not? I don't understand ze scenario. Which is also why I will never attempt to deny anyone out of fear
    check HP, check debuff. If hp is less than 70 or smt and buff duration is ~50% than deny. I don't do this tho, I generally deny directly.

  14. #5654
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Yes..
    What number, the exact duration or what?

  15. #5655
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    What number, the exact duration or what?
    The mini-bash duration in MKB which is 0.001 sec. I am not really sure, just a good guess.

  16. #5656
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    It was like that in the beginning during dota 1, at some point it changed and was documented somewhere.

    @Kuntantee- I know you said ignore but- that mini .01 second stun... can happen a lot in succession while bash's internal CD runs its course, its also goes through BKB (think all bash's do).

    Was thinking of a troll... troll build. Going Defusal/manta/ instead of madness(Helm of Dominator)/Shadow blade. Would be expensive so if your not doing well but your teams are fairly even should make for a great late game build.. though once you get defusal/manta... there should be no escaping you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I thought it was crystal clear what number i was talking about in post. Anyway, the mini-bash duration in MKB which is 0.001 sec. I am not really sure, just a good guess.
    No it's actually very unclear because the only numbers I see is "dota 1" and ".01 second stun" and I see no reason why ".01 second stun" would be there because of "engine limitations"

    The stun is, in fact, 0.01 seconds long.

  17. #5657
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    No it's actually very unclear because the only numbers I see is "dota 1" and ".01 second stun" and I see no reason why ".01 second stun" would be there because of "engine limitations"

    The stun is, in fact, 0.01 seconds long.
    first the post you quoted first is not mine second i removed crystal clear part to not tount you last i am writing on mobile sory for shitty punctuation also if you check prev post of mine you d see i alrdy stated 0.01value i have few theories about why but too lazy to write on mobile
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2013-01-29 at 03:18 PM.

  18. #5658
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    first the post you quoted first is not mine second i removed crystal clear part to not tount you last i am writing on mobile sory for shitty punctuation also if you check prev post of mine you d see i alrdy stated 0.01value i have few theories about why but too lazy to write on mobile
    I know I didn't quote you. I quoted the post you were replying to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    Loved troll since his initial debut in Dota. I just wish they hadn't changed his passive aura, the whole stacking thing seems like it should belong to beast master like it did in the past. Also in his video debut for Dota2 the commentator says that Basher doesn't stack (expected), doesn't say anything about the upgraded version though- prob going to say it doesn't work. With that said though... why isn't MKB part of his core? BKB is and helm of dominator is (though I'd say MoM is a better option to really stack the AS). Given that the main concept of troll is to perma-bash, shouldn't MKB be core?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I don't see the relation between concept of perma-bash and MKB. MKB bashes for like 0.1(just checked wiki says 0.01) sec or smt and I think that was there because of engine limitations of WC3. Since DotA2 is direct copy, they copied it as well. MKB is a raw damage item with slight IAS.

    edit
    ignore this post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    It was like that in the beginning during dota 1, at some point it changed and was documented somewhere.

    @Kuntantee- I know you said ignore but- that mini .01 second stun... can happen a lot in succession while bash's internal CD runs its course, its also goes through BKB (think all bash's do).

    Was thinking of a troll... troll build. Going Defusal/manta/ instead of madness(Helm of Dominator)/Shadow blade. Would be expensive so if your not doing well but your teams are fairly even should make for a great late game build.. though once you get defusal/manta... there should be no escaping you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    @Ichy Perma-Bash build should involve MKB, if it can be afforded, however, that's because of true strike not ultra mini-bash. If you ignore it's damage(~100dmg I guess) that mini-bash brings nothing but ability to cancel tp or other channeling spells. It's good since even raw damage + true strike of MKB worths the money and you get it too but I don't think you can consider it as a real bash. Enemy won't even feel they lose control of their character.

    While I may be wrong, I believe that number is there because of engine limitations.
    Here's most of the conversation if you were interested.

  19. #5659
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    No it's actually very unclear because the only numbers I see is "dota 1" and ".01 second stun" and I see no reason why ".01 second stun" would be there because of "engine limitations"

    The stun is, in fact, 0.01 seconds long.
    Imo either the True Strike part of mkb either needed to simulate interupt to channels and casts, but w3 engine didnt have one, so the miniministun simulated "interrupt" OR the piercing through evasion part wasnt doable in w3 engine with the exception of some sort of bash. Or both together. Its ridiculous when you open dota in mapeditor and see how basically everything is derived from existing w3 spells and abilities.

    Must have been butload of work to make some stuff work with the toolset they got in w3. I think QoP scream was based on Fan of Knives which was easy enough, since they work the same way (and a reason why scream has zero cast animation, as FoK didnt have either), but for example Linas stun I think? had to simulate invisible neutral NPC at the location and that NPC casting PBAoE stun, because the engine didnt allow to cast AoE stun like that.

  20. #5660
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    Imo either the True Strike part of mkb either needed to simulate interupt to channels and casts, but w3 engine didnt have one, so the miniministun simulated "interrupt" OR the piercing through evasion part wasnt doable in w3 engine with the exception of some sort of bash. Or both together. Its ridiculous when you open dota in mapeditor and see how basically everything is derived from existing w3 spells and abilities.

    Must have been butload of work to make some stuff work with the toolset they got in w3. I think QoP scream was based on Fan of Knives which was easy enough, since they work the same way (and a reason why scream has zero cast animation, as FoK didnt have either), but for example Linas stun I think? had to simulate invisible neutral NPC at the location and that NPC casting PBAoE stun, because the engine didnt allow to cast AoE stun like that.
    MKB's true strike is a 100% chance critical strike for 100% damage with 'No Miss' ticked last time I checked.

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