1. #5681

  2. #5682
    I didnt even realize you could sell it... but that is pretty funny

  3. #5683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    I need some advice, what's the best *easiest* heroes to teach friends to play?
    They just don't understand when to run away, and when to fight, or what their allies or enemies abilities do.

    One of them is terrible at LoL, and is only okay at Niax in DotA2. I just need to get him to play some other heroes, but I'm not sure who, any advice?
    The other is slightly better, but still doesn't understand when to initiate or when to run away.

    Just any advice would be appreciated! I've shown them videos, I've played games and games with them, they just need new heroes.
    Playing All Random is by far the best way to learn.

    But if they don't have any clue what they're doing, the most brainless heroes would probably be Drow Ranger (carry), Viper (... technically a carry), Skeleton King (carry), Lion (support), Crystal Maiden (support), and maybe Juggernaut (carry.) All of those heroes either have very few buttons to push or very simplistic playstyles.

    Sidenote: Carry Lion with Ethereal Blade and Shadowblade is hilarious. Who says you need to be Morphling to shotgun people?
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  4. #5684
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I support the "Play AR" movement. Best way to learn.
    I second this! I know nothing about nothing, but I be slowly learning some heroes. I mean, not to play them well, but I'll know what they do
    Making a lot of people mad in ze process!

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  5. #5685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    I second this! I know nothing about nothing, but I be slowly learning some heroes. I mean, not to play them well, but I'll know what they do
    Making a lot of people mad in ze process!
    That is the spirit of AR, if people take it super serious they have missed the point, making try hards rage while learning seems a perfect mix.

  6. #5686
    Quote Originally Posted by rol3x View Post
    That is the spirit of AR, if people take it super serious they have missed the point, making try hards rage while learning seems a perfect mix.
    Wish these sort of games were more noob-friendly. I mean, even with the worst possible MMR, you will STILL be flamed by your team. I upset a lot of people by my uselessness but, have to learn somehow!

    Bread is the paper of the food industry.
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  7. #5687
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Wish these sort of games were more noob-friendly. I mean, even with the worst possible MMR, you will STILL be flamed by your team. I upset a lot of people by my uselessness but, have to learn somehow!
    I said it before, but at that level (actually on pretty much any level) you should just ignore any flamers, both mentally and using the in-game button. They're players who've probably played a lot more than you, take games more seriously than you and yet they're still in your level of matchmaking. You shouldn't feel bad because of them, but it's not unnatural to feel bad for them.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-01-30 at 08:05 AM.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  8. #5688
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I said it before, but at that level (actually on pretty much any level) you should just ignore any flamers, both mentally and using the in-game button. They're players who've probably played a lot more than you, take games more seriously than you and yet they're still in your level of matchmaking. You shouldn't feel bad because of them, but it's not unnatural to feel bad for them.
    Well it would really be nice to find out how the matchmaking actually works. When I queue with Lysah I am of course way out of my bracket so, yeah, doomed. But even when I queue solo pretty much every player is more experienced than I, yet I am terrible and 52% percentile apparently. Not sure where the 'fair' is.


    Is it solely based on wins? Or W/L ratio? Personal performance? I am very confuzzled

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  9. #5689
    Over 9000! PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Wish these sort of games were more noob-friendly. I mean, even with the worst possible MMR, you will STILL be flamed by your team. I upset a lot of people by my uselessness but, have to learn somehow!
    People are just douchebags. Anonymity means they can act like pricks and have zero consequence for doing so, except maybe a brief stay in low priority pool.

    You do fine in the games I've watched, hell some of the games you say they were flaming you in, you were doing better than everyone else in the entire game. Like Hermanni says, just ignore em and then report em for flaming. Got notice that at least one of those pricks that was flaming you got sent to low priority hell, so I guess Valve does care if they get reported frequently enough.
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  10. #5690
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Well it would really be nice to find out how the matchmaking actually works. When I queue with Lysah I am of course way out of my bracket so, yeah, doomed. But even when I queue solo pretty much every player is more experienced than I, yet I am terrible and 52% percentile apparently. Not sure where the 'fair' is.


    Is it solely based on wins? Or W/L ratio? Personal performance? I am very confuzzled
    Feels like the conversation goes back to MMR every dozen pages or so. I'm still pretty sure it's just a rating-based system that accounts for wins, though Longview and others might again disagree. I haven't seen you play so I can't really tell if you're out of your place or not, I imagine there is a possibility that if you've played in the top end of MMR with Lysah and won some games it could have inflated your MMR, but I'm pretty sure playing in games well out of your range doesn't even affect your rating regardless of outcome.

    Then there's the possibility that you just feel out of your league when the non-evolving players around you have a lot of misguided confidence. I saw it a lot in HoN when playing with friends on alt accounts, loads of bad players with thousands of games in middle of the MMR range who would get really angry at anyone for any reason, be it "wrong" item build or a tiny mistake, and seemed to really think they were amazing players who somehow after thousands of games would still always land with the most terrible teammates so they never got higher rating.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  11. #5691
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Feels like the conversation goes back to MMR every dozen pages or so. I'm still pretty sure it's just a rating-based system that accounts for wins, though Longview and others might again disagree. I haven't seen you play so I can't really tell if you're out of your place or not, I imagine there is a possibility that if you've played in the top end of MMR with Lysah and won some games it could have inflated your MMR, but I'm pretty sure playing in games well out of your range doesn't even affect your rating regardless of outcome.

    Then there's the possibility that you just feel out of your league when the non-evolving players around you have a lot of misguided confidence. I saw it a lot in HoN when playing with friends on alt accounts, loads of bad players with thousands of games in middle of the MMR range who would get really angry at anyone for any reason, be it "wrong" item build or a tiny mistake, and seemed to really think they were amazing players who somehow after thousands of games would still always land with the most terrible teammates so they never got higher rating.
    Hmm. Well, I have a lot of games played but I'm a slow learner. My win ratio is far from positive, I think I'm at around 40-43%. I think I was down at like 32% when I played exclusively out of my bracket. And I don't know... I STILL don't know what heroes do, and what lanes are good, or waht items do, and such. In those rare occasions I end up on an anglophone team, the game-speak is complete gibberish to me.

    Bread is the paper of the food industry.
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  12. #5692
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Hmm. Well, I have a lot of games played but I'm a slow learner. My win ratio is far from positive, I think I'm at around 40-43%. I think I was down at like 32% when I played exclusively out of my bracket. And I don't know... I STILL don't know what heroes do, and what lanes are good, or waht items do, and such. In those rare occasions I end up on an anglophone team, the game-speak is complete gibberish to me.
    Win ratio alone is pretty meaningless, I mean my win ratio dropped below 50% for a while when I played a lot in 5-stacks with friends of varying skill level and we'd usually have to play against other 5-stacks who would pick a nice lineup and we'd just random 5 heroes and lose horribly 3 games out of 4, but when I queued alone I'd still get in page 1-2 games most of the time. Then I made an alt account for playing that kind of playing.

    I can't really give much advice in here about how to magically improve other than play the game, and when you die or queue for a game instead of tabbing out to read reddit look at the "what killed me" screen and read the tooltips of the abilities that killed you, and while queuing go to the learn tab and read up on the hero that confused you most in the previous game.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  13. #5693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Win ratio alone is pretty meaningless, I mean my win ratio dropped below 50% for a while when I played a lot in 5-stacks with friends of varying skill level and we'd usually have to play against other 5-stacks who would pick a nice lineup and we'd just random 5 heroes and lose horribly 3 games out of 4, but when I queued alone I'd still get in page 1-2 games most of the time. Then I made an alt account for playing that kind of playing.

    I can't really give much advice in here about how to magically improve other than play the game, and when you die or queue for a game instead of tabbing out to read reddit look at the "what killed me" screen and read the tooltips of the abilities that killed you, and while queuing go to the learn tab and read up on the hero that confused you most in the previous game.
    Dota2AltTab.com is a great source for quick 30 second guides to heroes. I find myself mentioning it in AR games a lot :/
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  14. #5694
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I can't really give much advice in here about how to magically improve other than play the game, and when you die or queue for a game instead of tabbing out to read reddit look at the "what killed me" screen and read the tooltips of the abilities that killed you, and while queuing go to the learn tab and read up on the hero that confused you most in the previous game.
    There's such a screen? I did not know this

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    You write your sandwich on it.

  15. #5695
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    I queue solo pretty much every player is more experienced than I, yet I am terrible and 52% percentile apparently.
    Do you really take that rating seriously?

    I always support playing AP at the very very beginning. I think it's like learning a foreign language. If you don't know fundamentals, even if you visit country using that language you won't learn a thing because you are missing the tool to learn. Without sticking a hero too much, I suggest AP for learning and not ranged heroes. Tho, it's my opinion. I learned better with this way.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2013-01-30 at 10:49 AM.

  16. #5696
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Dota2AltTab.com is a great source for quick 30 second guides to heroes. I find myself mentioning it in AR games a lot :/
    Yeah, but I assumed anyone can look up guides or Dotacinema spotlights if they wanted to. Sure, reading guides and watching videos and pro replays is an alright way to learn, but it's not for everyone and I don't like telling anyone that you absolutely must read this and watch that to "get good." Just playing and being somewhat attentive is often enough. I haven't read any guides in a long time, but this friend I taught to play who got pretty good really fast uses those alt tab guides a lot, and I'm not if he said some of them are a bit outdated or not very good because I do sometimes find myself rolling on the carpet after I looked what he built. But for the most part, I imagine those guides are fine as long as you don't start thinking they dictate how everyone should play every game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 10:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    There's such a screen? I did not know this
    The thing that opens up to left side of your screen when you die, you know, showing the hero that killed you. You can expand it to show what damaged you for how much and read the tooltips. Well, at least it seems like I did manage to say something useful.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 10:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Do you really take that rating seriously?
    It seemed fairly accurate to me, though I don't think it should be given much value regardless.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-01-30 at 10:54 AM.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

  17. #5697
    Over 9000! PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Yeah, but I assumed anyone can look up guides or Dotacinema spotlights if they wanted to. Sure, reading guides and watching videos and pro replays is an alright way to learn, but it's not for everyone and I don't like telling anyone that you absolutely must read this and watch that to "get good." Just playing and being somewhat attentive is often enough. I haven't read any guides in a long time, but this friend I taught to play who got pretty good really fast uses those alt tab guides a lot, and I'm not if he said some of them are a bit outdated or not very good because I do sometimes find myself rolling on the carpet after I looked what he built. But for the most part, I imagine those guides are fine as long as you don't start thinking they dictate how everyone should play every game.
    Yeah, guides are never a be-all, end-all, just a starting point. It does still have a few ridiculous recommendations, like PMS on Luna/Razor, but at least it seems like we were finally able to convince the guy to stop freaking listing Vanguard as core on Viper.
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    It is impossible for a tear of sadness to land on a Warrior Beard. As soon as the tear lands on the Warrior Beard, it is now a happy tear.
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  18. #5698
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Do you really take that rating seriously?

    I always support playing AP at the very very beginning. I think it's like learning a foreign language. If you don't know fundamentals, even if you visit country using that language you won't learn a thing because you are missing the tool to learn. Without sticking a hero too much, I suggest AP for learning and not ranged heroes. Tho, it's my opinion. I learned better with this way.
    No, I don't even know what it means. People have just been asking me about my rating and I didnt even know stuff like that existed until some day ago. Only measurement of how terrible I am I could find!

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 12:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    The thing that opens up to left side of your screen when you die, you know, showing the hero that killed you. You can expand it to show what damaged you for how much and read the tooltips. Well, at least it seems like I did manage to say something useful.
    I did not know this! Thanksies

    Bread is the paper of the food industry.
    You write your sandwich on it.

  19. #5699
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It seemed fairly accurate to me, though I don't think it should be given much value regardless.
    I was talking about true skill measurement not relative to community.

  20. #5700
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I was talking about true skill measurement not relative to community.
    I'm not exactly sure who or what is supposed to measure one's 'true skill' in Dota 2 and where that entered the conversation, but I was talking about the DBR in general.
    Manni of Paragon. Moderator of Dota 2 subforum - The golden rule: Listen to Lysah. Seriously.

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