1. #41
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Yea, just checked the DotA2. Seems like a nice addition... Have had games where it's a long time in and I'm still on my boots + 1 pot but with several k gold because the lane turned into a farm fest.

    From what you said though, it sounds like someone right at the start of the game is 170g down.
    Yup. Typically someone buys a courier & wards at beginning. If tourney game Sight Wards (Basically Sentry) also for de-warding. 170g for courier & 200g for wards. Usually supports buy them since Hard Carries will be needing the gold more.

    @ akts

    You could argue that LoL made it a clutter. AP, AD, AS, Crit, HP, Mana, MR, Armor, etc...

    But if we're getting to the point someone needs to have the fact Agility will increase attack speed which in turn (obviously) increases attack speed, then I don't think any amount of streamlining will make it easier. I just nejoy the 3 stat system much more, easier IMO.
    Last edited by Kurdiern; 2012-03-10 at 11:28 AM.

  2. #42
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Until you get someone like Alchemist, who has crap scaling with all stats?

    Sidenote, Xypherous had a very long discussion about zero gold support. In a way, I'm a bit saddened to see the same in DotA2, where one person basically donates their all to improve the effectiveness of the others.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome akts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    You could argue that LoL made it a clutter. AP, AD, AS, Crit, HP, Mana, MR, Armor, etc...
    Umm nope... You had HP and Mana, HP/5 and MP/5 on Bloodstone. Flat AD - tons of items. AS, Crit - butterfly and more. MR - nullcape? (there was a MR stat definately). Armor - plenty of items, even Dragonknight passive skill had it baked in iirc. All those stats are still there in dota, since they are mandatory for combat calculations. You just cant have no armor stat in game. You can have no items giving that stat directly, but you have to have armor in game.

    LoL only got rid of three extra stats and introduced AP and CDR.
    Last edited by akts; 2012-03-10 at 11:40 AM.
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  4. #44
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Until you get someone like Alchemist, who has crap scaling with all stats?

    Sidenote, Xypherous had a very long discussion about zero gold support. In a way, I'm a bit saddened to see the same in DotA2, where one person basically donates their all to improve the effectiveness of the others.
    Somewhat different. It's not as strict as a 0 support. There isn't a 20 minute lane phase with such a rigid meta. Ganking is a bit more common in DotA2. Also since auto-attacks play a much bigger role supports will often focus on denying/harassing to make sure their carry can farm safely. Much less passive compared to sit in brush and spam heal.

    Support often pulls creeps. That's basically pulling creep waves into the jungle onto neutrals who attack the creeps. You can deny the enemy hero creep experience and gold while killing the neutrals for gold. You can also "stack" neutral camps by pulling the neutrals out of the camps. Since camps respawn every 1 min, the creeps would respawn while the set you pulled return to their camps. You can do this as many times as possible, so double/triple stacking is common.

    Unlike in LoL also, there are much more items that have on use. Core on most supports is a Mekanism, which gives a decent amount of stats as well as a on use heal that is incredibly helpful. Pipe for blocking magic damage, a Eul's for a disable, etc...

    @ Akts

    You have a point. I just found DotA2 stats a bit easier. Generally most of what you need is basically influenced based on your core attribute.

  5. #45
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Tiny looks awesome.

  6. #46
    Mechagnome akts's Avatar
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    Whats good about the DotA visual side, is that the original had to use almost every single WC3 model, thus there are lot less SUPER-UINQUE BIG BOOBS champs and more monsterish (or at least orcs) champs.
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  7. #47
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Yes. I am hoping Riot steps away from that a bit. WTB Suppordle.

  8. #48
    If you've played the original DOTA before u should definitely try out DOTA 2 , it resembles DOTA a lot and it's kinda more complex than LoL , see denying etc

  9. #49
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    I haven't, that's why I'm asking all these questions

    I tried HoN a bit while it was in beta, but lack of prior knowledge and early beta don't really combine well.

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire MrDeadcruel's Avatar
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    Main difference for me is skill i played lol for a month and it just wasnt the thing for me but i am playing dota for 4-5years now , been in beta from november and the game for me is just awesome. Best moment in Dota is after a year, two of learning the game you learn invoker which is so much fun

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  11. #51
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    @ Dulliath

    Tiny is fun. Only problem is low manapool early game, but an avalanche + throw instagib is pretty fun. Watched him lane against an Obsidian Destroyer who has an ability called Banish that takes away Intelligence. Poor Tiny's mana pool was reduced down to 6. 6 mana. It was hilarious and depressing at the same time.
    Last edited by Kurdiern; 2012-03-10 at 01:23 PM.

  12. #52
    Mechagnome akts's Avatar
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    And ppl say champs are balanced heh.
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  13. #53
    So any good sites for like .. movies who explain core mechanics and where you can see all the champs and their spells etc. Like the Mobafire or solomid from LoL or so.

  14. #54
    Support works more different than in League. In league there is ap scaling so supports that cant buy items usually do no damage. In dota mages dont exactly scale with intellect, only their auto attack damage increases, so as long as you are getting kills and levelling up you can do a lot as a support. Lich is a very good example, his ult is brand pyroclasm that jumps around between 7 people and does insane damage. With a little cc you can grab double/triple kills early on and from there you can pretty much roam around killing people.

    As i said, since mages dont scale like they would in league, supports are less hurt by the lack of gold and thus aren't boring. Also supports can pull jungle creeps into the lane behind the tower and have his minions fight while he last hits. This also makes it so that the enemy creeps constantly push to your tower making it easier for your carry too. So yea you can get gold too.
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  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Led ++ View Post
    So any good sites for like .. movies who explain core mechanics and where you can see all the champs and their spells etc. Like the Mobafire or solomid from LoL or so.
    playdota.com, dota2wiki.com, & gosugamers.net

  16. #56
    supports in dota bring more utility like stuns, slows, buffs, debuffs there are only few heroes that can actually spam heal during lane phase
    and playing support is waaay more demanding in dota as carry you just jump in to kill everyone as support you have less HP and self defense skills so you need to adjust your postion or even stay out of fight wating for perfect oportunity to use your skill properly

    And ppl say champs are balanced heh.
    because they are, unlike lol its not always ap solo mid, ad carry and support bot etc. you can often see setups like solo melee carry mid or even double mid, double jungle ,tri-lane picking good heroes and placing them on lane is part of the game and mistakes hurts more in dota


    check http://www.youtube.com/user/DotaCinema for hero guides, mechanics explanations etc.
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-03-10 at 08:10 PM.

  17. #57
    I find it silly that people say that dota2 has more options than lol's current meta. Ofc it has, it's new. If one year from now it still has various strategies, then yes, it would be better than LoL. I don't think lol's current meta was from the start, so it isn't exactly "fair" to compare the two.

    Personally I can't bring myself to play any more dota.
    Having being a "dota classic" player, who moved to all stars and his first words were "what's this unbalanced sh!thole?", then focusing on allstars (since everyone else stopped playing classic! ), I can't bring myself to do it again....

  18. #58
    Riki/Sniper have to be some of the easiest heroes in D2. Also Ursa is OP

  19. #59
    Grunt
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    Creep denying, creep blocking, the ability to cut down trees, the ability for far superior jukes, creep pulling, creep stacking, far greater mobility, longer battlefield stay (via the courier) etc.

    These are some of the things I missed in LoL. The one thing that I think makes Dota slightly better is the fact that in a casual and even semi-competitive scene is that K/D ratios and what in LoL can be classed as feeding (OMG you died 3 times and have no kills gg!!) has far less of a detrimental effect to the remainder of the game. Ofc it makes it harder, but you get far less OMG GG FEEDERS when your just 6 deaths down.

    People saying that heroes like sven are basic are also forgetting that any semi decent sven will have a blink dagger and (is able to get a little farm) a BKB. Blink dagger acts like a low cooldown flash (requiring mana). BKB a spell blocking avatar ability producing item). These items, along with others are open to ALL heroes (pudge and VS excluded from blink). Where there at first only appear to be 2 or 3 active abilities, you realise that you end up having 5-6 or (with invoker and tinker later on) as many as 11-13 (the ability to reload items being fecking awesome on tinker).

    God I could go on about DotA.....in fact gonna go play it now. LoL is a great game, just in terms of the ridiculous aoe and wtf that can happen in ganks and team fights in Dota they are incomparable.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-11 at 12:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Emortal View Post
    Riki/Sniper have to be some of the easiest heroes in D2. Also Ursa is OP
    Dust and gem and ganks. These heroes suck balls. Dunno if Dota2 is gonna have it but Icefrog just put in a new item that nullifies the usefulness of rikki's smoke.

    Ursa, ward their jungle and or rosh. Easy peesy.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emortal View Post
    Riki/Sniper have to be some of the easiest heroes in D2. Also Ursa is OP
    Sniper agree, Riki less so, and Ursa is a pubstomper who isn't OP in any way.

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