1. #6701
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    can we please not go through this again
    Not sure what happened last time, but I don't see a reason to not point out that as a lane support Necrolyte is a shade worse than Invoker. If that discussion was something dreadful I must have blocked that memory for a reason.

  2. #6702
    Necro is garbage tier support, top tier int carry.

  3. #6703
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
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    Necro terrible? I just went 19-1-10 with him. I was mega hard carry.

  4. #6704
    Quote Originally Posted by crackleslap View Post
    Necro terrible?
    I don't think anyone suggested that Necro is terrible as anything else but support.

  5. #6705
    Quote Originally Posted by Demidov View Post
    I refuse to play Night Stalker until they fix his wings. So annoying to look at.

    Im not the only one who thinks this !! THANK GOD

    His animations look so awkward when he walks, especially when its night when hes all fast

    Why they couldnt just keep the "vampire" aspect from dota 1 is beyond me. Just dont make him look like a nathrizim and ur good.

  6. #6706
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I don't think anyone suggested that Necro is terrible as anything else but support.
    One person is saying not to carry, and another is suggesting necro is bad support. Necro is one of my bet heros and he is fantastic

  7. #6707
    Deleted
    Supports who don't buy sentries and then get their pull spot warded and all they do is standing there leeching EXP from carry and then says they have no gold for flying and observer wards. Gotta love those. Even more when they want to buy their boots first.

    EDIT: My next game, 15 min after this post: Dazzle comes top on Dire side at around 0:45 and just pass the neutrals. I ask him why no pull/stack, he says no gold for sentries. I check his inventory and he has a gauntlet and WR hits level 6 when I'm 5 as Tiny. I ask why he gives WR levels and he says WR stronger hero than Dazzle. It wasn't his fault he said.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-03-13 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #6708
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    EDIT: My next game, 15 min after this post: Dazzle comes top on Dire side at around 0:45 and just pass the neutrals. I ask him why no pull/stack, he says no gold for sentries. I check his inventory and he has a gauntlet and WR hits level 6 when I'm 5 as Tiny. I ask why he gives WR levels and he says WR stronger hero than Dazzle. It wasn't his fault he said.
    That pretty much sums up why I avoid playing a dual-lane carry with someone I don't know, I feel like most of the time I either get someone who is too stuck up to play support properly because they wanted to play carry or someone who is completely clueless like the guy you described.

  9. #6709
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Supports who don't buy sentries and then get their pull spot warded and all they do is standing there leeching EXP from carry and then says they have no gold for flying and observer wards. Gotta love those. Even more when they want to buy their boots first.

    EDIT: My next game, 15 min after this post: Dazzle comes top on Dire side at around 0:45 and just pass the neutrals. I ask him why no pull/stack, he says no gold for sentries. I check his inventory and he has a gauntlet and WR hits level 6 when I'm 5 as Tiny. I ask why he gives WR levels and he says WR stronger hero than Dazzle. It wasn't his fault he said.
    Implying the support should leave the base with virtually no items? That extra 57 HP can easily be the difference between surviving and being first blood, especially against aggressive lanes.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  10. #6710
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Implying the support should leave the base with virtually no items? That extra 57 HP can easily be the difference between surviving and being first blood, especially against aggressive lanes.
    I know. Especially against those scary neutral creeps and a creep wave tanking them for you.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-03-13 at 03:15 AM.

  11. #6711
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    You have to figure out how to make it work. Supports can farm easy camp pretty, uh, easily and it's most of a set of wards. Stack/pull, roam for ganks, etc. The pros make it work, so obviously we're the problem, not the game
    You completely missed my point.
    What I was saying is players are often too blunt and can't figure it out that support isn't their personal bitch to slap around.
    If your support is having a hard time and asks some1 who has better situation at hand and/or farm, to buy a couple of fething wards, you can buy it yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I know. Especially against those scary neutral creeps and a creep wave tanking them for you.
    so you want your personal bitch-support buy you all the wards/dust by himself while simultaneously giving you all of the farm while somehow yet supporting you and pulling creeps and roaming AND getting actual exp to be relevant during game?
    sure as sure.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2013-03-13 at 11:16 AM.

  12. #6712
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    so you want your personal bitch-support buy you all the wards/dust by himself while simultaneously giving you all of the farm while somehow yet supporting you and pulling creeps and roaming AND getting actual exp to be relevant during game?
    sure as sure.
    I want him to buy a chicken and sentries. Let the position 4 buy the observer wards. If I am against a solo hard lane I want him to pull and stack and kill the stack before minute 3 so he can pull again at 3:15 and then connect the camp. This will deny opponent two full waves of creeps. This should grant the support around level 3-4 I think and gold enough to buy items. Between pulling/stacking he should try to zone out the hardlaner.

    What do you expect supports to do? Buy boots and take experience from carry and buy no flying for mid player and no wards until 11 minute because you can't afford it? Because you refused to buy sentries to help you pull and get some gold yourself and instead bought that extra gauntlet? Because you wanted those boots? Even when supports have a hard time they will have gold for wards. It's just that somehow bad players don't feel wards are important when it's going bad for them. Support should always buy wards, I don't know why you think differently.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2013-03-13 at 12:16 PM.

  13. #6713
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    You completely missed my point.
    What I was saying is players are often too blunt and can't figure it out that support isn't their personal bitch to slap around.
    If your support is having a hard time and asks some1 who has better situation at hand and/or farm, to buy a couple of fething wards, you can buy it yourself.

    so you want your personal bitch-support buy you all the wards/dust by himself while simultaneously giving you all of the farm while somehow yet supporting you and pulling creeps and roaming AND getting actual exp to be relevant during game?
    sure as sure.
    It's actually pretty easy to buy wards, get levels + gold and buy/upgrade the courier even without taking kills from your lane. I can give you a short guide here:

    Buy a courier, a set of sentries, one tango and three branches at the start. Next go to your jungle and check the area where the opposing offlaner drops his ward, then deward it with your sentry without blocking your own camp (Yes I have seen some idiots manage to do this). Stack your pull camp at around 0.53 and then pull the camp into your creepwave. Time your last hits so that you can get all the gold from those jungle creeps and try to actively deny your own lane creeps (IF needed!) so that they will actually die and not give extra push to your safe lane. You can also do connected camp pulls by attacking creeps from a nearby camp (the one right above bottom rune spot for Radiant and the big camp closest to Radiant tier 1 top tower for Dire) and bringing them close to your lane creeps just when the normal pull camp dies. Though you will need to use one of your tangoes to cut a tree to make this work if you are playing Radiant.

    Between pulls you can try to zone out the opposing hardlaner through harassment but be careful with creep aggro because that also pushes your creepwave towards the opponent's tower. Of course you can also go in for a kill once you and your lane partner have level advantage and possibly gain even more gold.

    Additional tip: If I buy observer wards at the start I usually drop one of them to either the cliff edge near radiant side ancients (When I'm playing Dire) or right on top of the ramp that goes up from the river to the Dire side of the map near the top rune (When I'm playing Radiant). Both of these give your mid rune vision and also high ground vision at all times which can make it easier for your mid to win his lane.
    Last edited by mmoc4d2020beea; 2013-03-13 at 04:20 PM.

  14. #6714
    I don't recall asking for a guide, so thanks for nothing.

  15. #6715
    What happens when the enemy offlaner isn't solo and you go to check where he wards and walk into first blood? What happens when they don't obs ward and just gank you and kill you when you pull? What happens when the enemy offlane knows how to put his ward in a place where you can't deward without blocking your own camp? It's not very hard to ward without people seeing you place.

    All of this discussion is based on the notion that your enemy is an idiot and you, as the support, are free to play however you want and the enemy won't fight back or try to interrupt you. Hell, even if you DO manage to deward, a hero like WR can easily just shoot the jungle camp when you try to pull and prevent the pull from ever happening.

    Now you're out the price of sentries that did nothing and are also not getting gold or experience from pulling. Time to go AFK in fountain so you don't steal precious EXP from your carry?
    Last edited by Lysah; 2013-03-13 at 04:51 PM.

  16. #6716
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    I don't recall asking for a guide, so thanks for nothing.
    you may not have... doesn't mean you can't take advice form the guide it self... and people digging through this thread or following it who are new and could use some help might find it useful. What you've just done is the very example of whats wrong with the dota community, so fucking hostile for nothing.

  17. #6717
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    you may not have... doesn't mean you can't take advice form the guide it self... and people digging through this thread or following it who are new and could use some help might find it useful. What you've just done is the very example of whats wrong with the dota community, so fucking hostile for nothing.
    Ichy, dearest of all my friends!
    I am in no way hostile, I merely stated I didnt fething ask for a guide, as well as I don't get why did above person quote me while posting that "guide".

  18. #6718
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    What happens when the enemy offlaner isn't solo and you go to check where he wards and walk into first blood? What happens when they don't obs ward and just gank you and kill you when you pull? What happens when the enemy offlane knows how to put his ward in a place where you can't deward without blocking your own camp? It's not very hard to ward without people seeing you place.

    All of this discussion is based on the notion that your enemy is an idiot and you, as the support, are free to play however you want and the enemy won't fight back or try to interrupt you. Hell, even if you DO manage to deward, a hero like WR can easily just shoot the jungle camp when you try to pull and prevent the pull from ever happening.

    Now you're out the price of sentries that did nothing and are also not getting gold or experience from pulling. Time to go AFK in fountain so you don't steal precious EXP from your carry?
    Yes, this does not take into account tri hard lanes that might be out there looking to kill you right at the start but most of the time when you go to wait next to the camp with your lane partner right at the start you will be able to get away from a dual lane trying to kill you unless they have some extremely good lvl 1 hero combo. And by waiting near the camp I mean so that you have vision of the area where the enemy will most likely come from to ward the camp, not some aggressive positioning. If the enemy hardlaner tries to come and interrupt your pulls your carry can also help you to fend him/her off. If you have a nice kill combo like Naix + Dazzle or CM + jugg, you can maybe even kill him.
    If everything still goes horribly wrong then you can just do normal dual laning and focus on denying as much as possible OR look to gank some other lane OR do a lane switch. What I wrote earlier was just a general guide that works most of the time in pub games, but of course you also need to be able to use your brain and react when everything doesn't go just as you planned.

  19. #6719
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    so you want your personal bitch-support buy you all the wards/dust by himself while simultaneously giving you all of the farm while somehow yet supporting you and pulling creeps and roaming AND getting actual exp to be relevant during game?
    sure as sure.
    It's not like these are completely different sets of actions, some of them go hand in hand. You get exp/gold when pulling and roaming. And of course, it's not like one has to do ALL these things at the same time.

  20. #6720
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Ichy, dearest of all my friends!
    I am in no way hostile, I merely stated I didnt fething ask for a guide, as well as I don't get why did above person quote me while posting that "guide".
    my assumption was because you were describing how hard it is to play support (at times, not all the time). Would kinda of make since to post a guide for "possible things one could do" when having a bad/hard game as support. Weather or not he(she? it?) meant it as a direct reply for you. well... they will need to post about their intentions.

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