[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

How is this relevant? You could just admit you were wrong or come up with a real argument instead of being condescending and reverting to old subject with some trademark exaggeration.

Admit I'm wrong? But I'm not wrong. Maybe that shit flies at the pro level, but that's an entirely different game. You buy sentries without good reason to in the game I play, and you're just wasting 200 gold on something that will do precisely nothing for your team.

[Deleted]

Cool. So now you're an underfarmed, underleveled support that's still expected to buy wards, dust, TPs, and still have your Meka and Force Staff and Ghost Scepter and Pipe at a decent time.

Obviously pulling is so easy and you can't be ganked during it and obviously everyone else is just fucking retarded and you've figured out a way to win the game, every single game, by doing the exact same shit every game, right?

Why haven't the pros figured it out, man? Did you not tell them because you'd feel it'd be too boring if you did?

Are you joking? Why haven't the pros figured out why laning a dual lane on hard lane is bad? They don't lane dual hard lanes because against competent players you are not gonna get that kill on the support or manage to dive that carry under the tower with your imba nukes like you do in your pub games.

And of course 200 gold is waste in your games because you probably don't even know how to pull and connect camps or how to find observer wards with your sentries (and apparently according to Lysah you can place observer wards that are impossible to spot without blocking your own camp). Of course sentries are a waste if your opponent never ward your pull spot. But that makes it even easier for you to stack and pull, so I don't see the problem. My original point was playing with supports who don't buy sentries in my games where hard laners actually ward the pull spot and then support end up with no levels and gold.

[Lysah]

The real answer here is to just have Ariadne support in a game against me and see how he does in his lane with his sentries. I'll bring a sven/VS lane, should be able to first blood during the stack at :52. Predictable enemy supports are my favorite kind of enemy.

Luckily for me, I understand that there is no BEST way to play DotA, EVERYTHING has a counter, and when 99% of the community plays the EXACT SAME WAY every single game, it gets pretty easy to run a train all over it. I usually don't like going top though, in my games I usually have to hard carry if my team wants even a glimmer of hope at winning.

[Deleted]

The real answer here is to just have Ariadne support in a game against me and see how he does in his lane with his sentries. I'll bring a sven/VS lane, should be able to first blood during the stack at :52. Predictable enemy supports are my favorite kind of enemy.

Luckily for me, I understand that there is no BEST way to play DotA, EVERYTHING has a counter, and when 99% of the community plays the EXACT SAME WAY every single game, it gets pretty easy to run a train all over it. I usually don't like going top though, in my games I usually have to hard carry if my team wants even a glimmer of hope at winning.

Why should I bring sentries against you? No point when you can place them where I can't deward them.

You just say things without explaining them and act as if they are right when they're so many times not. "Die in 6-7 auto attacks against WR as support without RoP", "Sven/VS kills a support at level 1 if he goes to stack".

Look at this screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/3RkU8gb.jpg

Where are you gonna come from that makes you able to land a stun on me when you move from your lane at the first wave? I have vision of you when you are last hitting/denying the first wave of creeps. If you haven't even shown yourself by then, I ping the mid hero, tell him missing bot and I don't go stack myself because a Sven/VS is missing.

And I told you, against dual lanes you play differently. Stacking and pulling isn't expected at all. My scenarios were agianst solo hard laner when support was stealing experience from carry and having their off laner overleveled when he could stack/pull instead.

Furthermore, you just argued against yourself when you said community plays the same way 99% of the times. Buying sentries will help your carry and you 99% of the times. That's a pretty good playstyle in my opinion. Especially when that playstyle can be adapted to also covers the other 1% of the plays.

[Sarevokcz]

Why should I bring sentries against you? No point when you can place them where I can't deward them.

You just say things without explaining them and act as if they are right when they're so many times not. "Die in 6-7 auto attacks against WR as support without RoP", "Sven/VS kills a support at level 1 if he goes to stack".

Look at this screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/3RkU8gb.jpg

Where are you gonna come from that makes you able to land a stun on me when you move from your lane at the first wave? I have vision of you when you are last hitting/denying the first wave of creeps. If you haven't even shown yourself by then, I ping the mid hero, tell him missing bot and I don't go stack myself because a Sven/VS is missing.

And I told you, against dual lanes you play differently. Stacking and pulling isn't expected at all. My scenarios were agianst solo hard laner when support was stealing experience from carry and having their off laner overleveled when he could stack/pull instead.

Furthermore, you just argued against yourself when you said community plays the same way 99% of the times. Buying sentries will help your carry and you 99% of the times. That's a pretty good playstyle in my opinion. Especially when that playstyle can be adapted to also covers the other 1% of the plays.

does it matter if they kill you or not? If they come to your creep pull, force you to back off, kill some creeps AND some neutrals and you get no exp whatsoever,because you cant come close, its already win for them.

[Deleted]

does it matter if they kill you or not? If they come to your creep pull, force you to back off, kill some creeps AND some neutrals and you get no exp whatsoever,because you cant come close, its already win for them.

Except that your carry is getting free farm.

[Sarevokcz]

Except that your carry is getting free farm.

he would be getting anyway since you just pulled creeps and hes gonna dance with their creeps under tower...

[Hermanni]

he would be getting anyway since you just pulled creeps and hes gonna dance with their creeps under tower...

If your pull brought creeps under the tower you failed as a support.

[Sarevokcz]

If your pull brought creeps under the tower you failed as a support.

I would argue that if you pushed your lane so much, that your supports have to pull and the creeps wont even reach the tower, you failed as carry, especially when we are talking situations 3 mins into the game.

[Lysah]

does it matter if they kill you or not? If they come to your creep pull, force you to back off, kill some creeps AND some neutrals and you get no exp whatsoever,because you cant come close, its already win for them.

I agree.

I would argue that if you pushed your lane so much, that your supports have to pull and the creeps wont even reach the tower, you failed as carry, especially when we are talking situations 3 mins into the game.

I agree. I only use pulling for aggressive play to push the enemy, not as a defensive/farming tool in the lane that is already the safe lane. Honestly I'd prefer no support and to solo over someone pulling any day.

Lastly, early game isn't that important. The difference between a terrible and a top tier support is very small, even discussing how to be a good support vs. what a bad one looks like is comical to me. Good support? Buy chicken, ward river constantly, TP to help allies when enemy dives them, jump in front of carry so you die instead of him when he gets ganked. Successful support is successful, you have no other purpose in life.

[NotValidAnymore]

And yet people bother playing supports. That's a bit sad, if anything.

[Deleted]

And yet people bother playing supports. That's a bit sad, if anything.

Well the rooster has a very high % of them :P

[Hermanni]

I would argue that if you pushed your lane so much, that your supports have to pull and the creeps wont even reach the tower, you failed as carry, especially when we are talking situations 3 mins into the game.

Yes, but what I meant was that a lot of bad or reluctant supports go and pull when the creep equilibrium is just about perfect just because they want to farm instead of zoning the offlaner or doing something useful. I've had plenty of games where I'm virtually 1v1 in a lane that should be 2v1 because the 'support' does nothing but sit at the pull spot and do single pulls nonstop. Then the lane constantly goes from under your tower to enemy tower and back and someone starts wondering why enemy offlaner has farm or why someone got ganked or why tower is low HP.

[Lysah]

And yet people bother playing supports. That's a bit sad, if anything.

Two people can't farm one lane, all it is.

[Hermanni]

I dunno, I tend to get more satisfaction out of a game where I know I supported well (=====every game ever) than when I farm for 30 minutes while my teammates have all the fun.

[Kjalar]

Same here. I just don't like the idea of being carried through all of early and mid game by 3-4 other people, so that I could farm farm farm for like 30-40 minutes, then get out of the forest and right-click everyone to death. Early and mid game is my favorite part, so I mostly play supports with nukes and/or disables.

[Lysah]

Play hybrid. Have a meaningful early game. Still have fun past 15 minutes.

[NotValidAnymore]

Well the rooster has a very high % of them :P

Two people can't farm one lane, all it is.

It's more about the fact that they do simple, yet important things... but still get slapped around like they're a little bitch, with no appreciation given whatsoever.

Sometimes you just gotta wonder why anyone would bother.

[Keyzz]

Whenever I come back to this thread, it amazes me how people try to have discussions with Pizza or Lysah. One backs up his arguments with swear filled rambles about something being OP, or someone being a moron. And the other just qualifies all his arguments about how amazing he is at Dota and how everything he says must be true and his word shall not be argued against.

Everyone has their own way to play. It seems some people get more satisfaction out of trying to disprove other people's strategies than actually playing Dota. So much e-peen stroking in one thread.

[Longview]

it's dota, did you really expect anything different?