1. #7681
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    I disagree. I live with two dudes who still play HoN (and Dota 2, but mainly HoN). Shit like "lmao dont let brown or oj go mid fucking shitters" is commonplace. Repulsive.
    While its insulting to the 2 players, it was sadly correct.The difference between one team's highest rated player and the opposing team lowest one was gamebreaking.

  2. #7682
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidulgaa View Post
    The problem with matchmaking and the whole "forced 50% winrate" is that instead of matching you with 9 other people who are higher skill level it puts 4 complete retards in your team and 5 chinese dota legends on the other team
    Do you have any basis for this or is this another case of selective memory? I mean, after >1200 games I think I would have noticed something. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've won nine games in a row easily and lost the tenth even though it was close. I just don't see it the same way, I guess.

    It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the MMR system to punish a single individual for winning a couple of games. Not even remotely. People have bad games, and sometimes people try out heroes they have no idea how to play. I'd say they're all probably around your rating every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    While its insulting to the 2 players, it was sadly correct.The difference between one team's highest rated player and the opposing team lowest one was gamebreaking.
    Which is what I'm disagreeing with. Brown or orange isn't automatically the lowest rated player on each team, so there's no flaming. There are no visible ratings, so people do not care as much if they win or lose.

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  3. #7683
    As long as you don't exclusively play in imbalanced stacks (either with high skill disparity or extreme tryharding), your winrate being near 50% is just a sign that the system is working. It doesn't need to enforce anything and I very much doubt the system has a feature of "oh looks like you won a few games, gonna put you into an impossible game next", win/loss streaks are just a natural occurrence. If your queue lasts for well over 4 minutes, you can expect the game to possibly be unbalanced because the matchmaking range is way off. I sat in queue for 8 or 9 minutes a few days ago and this was the result, had to play against the worst mid player I've seen in a while and it wasn't pretty.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-05-01 at 05:03 PM.



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  4. #7684
    What the system seems to do is put lower-skilled players together with higher-skilled, aka to balance it. Problem is, it becomes a single player dota game. Either you are strong enough to alone carry your team (= game is not balanced), or you get drowned by the feeders & low skilled people (again, game not balanced). Low people should play with low, high with high, not mix and match.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 07:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    As long as you don't exclusively play in imbalanced stacks (either with high skill disparity or extreme tryharding), your winrate being near 50% is just a sign that the system is working. It doesn't need to enforce anything and I very much doubt the system has a feature of "oh looks like you won a few games, gonna put you into an impossible game next", win/loss streaks are just a natural occurrence. If your queue lasts for well over 4 minutes, you can expect the game to possibly be unbalanced because the matchmaking range is way off. I sat in queue for 8 or 9 minutes a few days ago and this was the result, had to play against the worst mid player I've seen in a while and it wasn't pretty.
    How about having a pudge with midas and MOM on your team? Or chen with 2 dagons (yes, two)? If there was a dota bingo, id probably have hit a jackpot by now


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  5. #7685
    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    Low people should play with low, high with high, not mix and match.
    They are. If you're placed with people your own skill level every game, you should get around 50% win/loss-ratio eventually. That's how the system works.

    One of my friends couldn't get to 1900 in HoN (pre-compression) because he was stuck in the 1800-trench. He couldn't get higher because the people on his team were always dragging him down. It doesn't really work that way.

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  6. #7686
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    They are. If you're placed with people your own skill level every game, you should get around 50% win/loss-ratio eventually. That's how the system works.

    One of my friends couldn't get to 1900 in HoN (pre-compression) because he was stuck in the 1800-trench. He couldn't get higher because the people on his team were always dragging him down. It doesn't really work that way.
    And yet i ALWAYS find myself in terrible teams after a winning streak. No, not a selective memory, but i know if i win 6-7-8 games in a row, im bound to get a HORRIBLE team, and go on a losing streak. Im perfectly fine with losing a game when match is fair - i get those often. But i also very often get very one-sided matches, like a single lane feeding 15 kills in 8 minutes, or a group of 4 russians who tryhard and die to tower while trying to zerg it, etc. The issue is not losing. Issue is getting mix-n-matched with people from different skill groups rather than just your own, and that causes the game to be extremely unbalanced at times.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 09:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    And yet i ALWAYS find myself in terrible teams after a winning streak. No, not a selective memory, but i know if i win 6-7-8 games in a row, im bound to get a HORRIBLE team, and go on a losing streak. Im perfectly fine with losing a game when match is fair - i get those often. But i also very often get very one-sided matches, like a single lane feeding 15 kills in 8 minutes, or a group of 4 russians who tryhard and die to tower while trying to zerg it, etc. The issue is not losing. Issue is getting mix-n-matched with people from different skill groups rather than just your own, and that causes the game to be extremely unbalanced at times.
    Another example: after a winning streak a few days ago i found myself in a team with a decent kunkka and venomancer, but magnus and some other guy were horrid. Not only they fed for the small time they were in, they ended up both quitting (abandon, but not early abandon). So 8min+ we were 3v5.
    Fun fact? the other team was even worse. If the other team was ANY good, they would have wiped the floor with us, hard. As it is, we survived for 40+ minutes AND won the game. The point of this "rant" is that after being on a winning stream i came up to a 1) bad team (the guys who left and were horrible), and 2) bad opponent team. How is that balanced?


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  7. #7687
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Looks like somebody forgot to tell Omni you can't be a carry without steroids =/

    Also I think they were winning early game, interestingly enough. Worth watching if you want to see some Enchantress failtraining.
    Lol. Glad to see simple concepts still going over your head

  8. #7688
    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    And yet i ALWAYS find myself in terrible teams after a winning streak. No, not a selective memory, but i know if i win 6-7-8 games in a row, im bound to get a HORRIBLE team, and go on a losing streak.
    That's just how selective memory works. Since Valve is very secretive with how MMR works (most of everything of what they've said is in the post I did just above here), do you at least have something to back this up with? Match IDs? No?

    edit: Elder Titan ingame
    Last edited by Longview; 2013-05-01 at 09:47 PM.

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  9. #7689
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    Never liked him. At least i got my <333 bristleback. Now all i want is my techies.


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  10. #7690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    That's just how selective memory works. Since Valve is very secretive with how MMR works (most of everything of what they've said is in the post I did just above here), do you at least have something to back this up with? Match IDs? No?

    edit: Elder Titan ingame
    Wow he looks dumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  11. #7691



    bad ass

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  12. #7692
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Wow he looks dumb.
    At least his face improved from this: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Elder_Titan

  13. #7693
    TC possibly my favorite hero. Take notes, kids.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  14. #7694
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzz View Post
    Lol. Glad to see simple concepts still going over your head
    Same to you, my friend.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 06:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    How about having a pudge with midas and MOM on your team? Or chen with 2 dagons (yes, two)? If there was a dota bingo, id probably have hit a jackpot by now
    You can't expect everyone to take pub games seriously. I'd be sad if they did, some of the most fun games I've played have been games almost nobody took seriously. People like pointing out other people's scores or builds and thinking that this guy can't possibly be on my level without even stopping to consider that said player might just be fooling around or having a really bad game.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-05-02 at 04:49 AM.



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  15. #7695
    holy shit that hero looks awesome

  16. #7696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    TC possibly my favorite hero. Take notes, kids.
    Axe. Axe, Axe, Axe, and more Axe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  17. #7697
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Axe. Axe, Axe, Axe, and more Axe.
    Axe would've shed a tear for this post, but Axe does not cry.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  18. #7698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Axe would've shed a tear for this post, but Axe does not cry.
    Axe is a cut above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  19. #7699
    Everytime I play Axe I miss double aegis build, hate current pansy caster style. Axe is supposed to be drawing creep aggro and harassing with helix, not stand behind creeps and cast some puny battle hunger

  20. #7700
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    Recent tier list was posted, purely ranking heroes by how often they appeared in the past 428 tournament games (Batrider was the only hero that appeared in every single game.)

    Spurred on a discussion about Viper, and specifically why he wasn't used much (only seen once in 428 games, IIRC.)

    Seems to me like he'd fare well in the aggressive style of game used currently, probably as a solo mid or farming carry in an aggressive trilane. Nethertoxin damage scales very well in the early game and applies half to towers, giving him early game relevance. His orb is a potent slow and has good range (in addition to being an orb, meaning towers and creeps ignore him), making it good for setting up stuns (lesh/lina stun, etc) and enabling chasing, as well as discouraging enemy harassment.

    Viper Strike is immensely powerful combined with Nethertoxin; the big dot rapidly lowers enemy HP, allowing Viper's autohits to deal increasingly more damage. It's also a very powerful slow; unless you can get immediate TP support, getting hit with Viper Strike in the first 15-20 minutes of the game means you are going to die.

    It seems like you'd want to get a quick level 6 on Viper and then begin playing very aggressively, pushing towers. Nethertoxin makes Viper hit towers pretty hard, and the strength of his orb and Viper Strike combined with teammates means you have to fully commit if you want to fight his team - the immense slows and dots mean that disengaging probably won't work. Urn works really really well on him, giving him another fatal dot as well as the heal and HP.

    Late game relevance would be obtained through tanky items (Pipe, Shiva, etc) and scepter. Scepter lasts 5 seconds, is an 80% move/attack slow that ignores BKB, and can be cast at 950 range, and has 12 sec cooldown. This means that Viper Strike is available multiple times in a fight, is available for every fight, and Viper can essentially nullify a late-game BKB entirely (pop BKB, viper strike'd, you do virtually no damage for as long as the BKB lasts.) His orb is 40% slow for whenever BKB isn't up, and you could combo an item like Shiva for even more slowing power (Viper Strike + Shiva aura would be equal to a max level Bambi passive.)

    He's a little limited in laning - again, really the only options (if you aren't running a duo lane) are mid solo or aggressive tri. He's a bit squishy and very slow at 285 speed, which means he'll be very easy to gank if he's mid. The horseshit that is bottlecrow also means that he won't necessarily win mid, though even with bottlecrow a lot of heroes won't be able to do much besides trade farm with him. I'd expect he'd win mid against a lot of heroes if bottlecrow were removed, fat chance of that happening though.

    He also lacks any real disable; his slows mean a carry isn't going to do much autoattacking but he can't prevent someone from casting spells or using items. Can always get sheepstick on him for one, but I actually really think Shiva is an amazing item on him, and I don't think he farms well enough to get both. I guess that's another big weakness - he sucks at farming. I think you'd have to get most of your gold from towers and kills and hope that's enough to keep you going until your carry comes online and you can transition into your slow-bot role with a scepter.

    That said, it seems like he'd fit into the current meta pretty well. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't been picked more often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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