1. #961
    If you watch team fights from professional games, the majority of the action is not RNG based. Most kills are made off of hard CC, the kind of thing you can't RNG your way out of. The variation in gold reward per kill is not even noticeable.

    Higher level players who are playing for prize money tend to prefer not to let their victory be a dice roll, either. Heroes such as PA and ogre who are completely reliant on their RNG are not highly favorable among competitive teams.
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  2. #962
    Field Marshal pierakor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    If you watch team fights from professional games, the majority of the action is not RNG based. Most kills are made off of hard CC, the kind of thing you can't RNG your way out of. The variation in gold reward per kill is not even noticeable.

    Higher level players who are playing for prize money tend to prefer not to let their victory be a dice roll, either. Heroes such as PA and ogre who are completely reliant on their RNG are not highly favorable among competitive teams.
    RNG has a huge influence in some ways though e.g. mid lane and rune control. Bad / good rune luck can win or lose the mid lane for most heroes. Luminous once said good or bad luck is gonna happen to both teams all the time and the very definition of skill is how you deal with the situation and how you react.

  3. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierakor View Post
    RNG has a huge influence in some ways though e.g. mid lane and rune control. Bad / good rune luck can win or lose the mid lane for most heroes. Luminous once said good or bad luck is gonna happen to both teams all the time and the very definition of skill is how you deal with the situation and how you react.
    Rune control isn't luck. You're guaranteed to have a rune spawn every 2 minutes on the dot, and if your team isn't in position to control both spawn locations at that time, you simply got outplayed. Your losing that rune, and potentially losing your lane because of it, has absolutely nothing to do with luck and everything to do with execution.
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  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Rune control isn't luck. You're guaranteed to have a rune spawn every 2 minutes on the dot, and if your team isn't in position to control both spawn locations at that time, you simply got outplayed. Your losing that rune, and potentially losing your lane because of it, has absolutely nothing to do with luck and everything to do with execution.
    It definitely makes at least of a bit of a difference. A gank-heavy hero who runs to the runes and gets illusion every single time isn't going to do as well as one who gets lolhaste or invis.

  5. #965
    Field Marshal pierakor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Rune control isn't luck. You're guaranteed to have a rune spawn every 2 minutes on the dot, and if your team isn't in position to control both spawn locations at that time, you simply got outplayed. Your losing that rune, and potentially losing your lane because of it, has absolutely nothing to do with luck and everything to do with execution.
    No as a mid hero you cannot secure both spawns and often your other lanes can't spare someone to help. And imagine a support from top/bot trying to check a rune spawn when a mighty mid hero blinks and instantly kills them. really there are many examples for that and many pros have complained about this as well. I remember back in 2009 Kuroky said runes should be visible for everyone, so you can see how long this has been an issue.

  6. #966
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    Just go dual mid then if you want total rune control.

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by pierakor View Post
    No as a mid hero you cannot secure both spawns and often your other lanes can't spare someone to help. And imagine a support from top/bot trying to check a rune spawn when a mighty mid hero blinks and instantly kills them. really there are many examples for that and many pros have complained about this as well. I remember back in 2009 Kuroky said runes should be visible for everyone, so you can see how long this has been an issue.
    Why would a support check rune?
    How "mid hero" can blink and kill a support instantly?
    I don't think all professional's ideas are good or accurate. There is no problem with current rune system and as far as I remember it's same for 5, 6 years.

    I do dare to say runes have very little(almost no) impact on game result.

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I do dare to say runes have very little(almost no) impact on game result.
    on game result as a whole probably minor
    but huge on winning lane
    if your opponent get 2 good runes in a row because they spawned closer to him well you are in bad position as direct result of rng

    im not saying it should be changed

  9. #969
    Bloodsail Admiral MKing's Avatar
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    So i just played a game and went 21-1 as juggernaut, i know not hard.. but we dominated that game and i only got like 1/100th of a battle experience bar.. Is this a joke? if not i won't ever touch it after release because of the grindfest that it is, or if they don't fix how zoomed in the max camera distance is.. can barely see anything. Just gonna stick with LoL since most of my friends won't play Dota 2 anyways.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    So i just played a game and went 21-1 as juggernaut, i know not hard.. but we dominated that game and i only got like 1/100th of a battle experience bar.. Is this a joke? if not i won't ever touch it after release because of the grindfest that it is
    The only thing that leveling up gives you is a cosmetic item. Are you kidding me?

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    So i just played a game and went 21-1 as juggernaut, i know not hard.. but we dominated that game and i only got like 1/100th of a battle experience bar.. Is this a joke? if not i won't ever touch it after release because of the grindfest that it is, or if they don't fix how zoomed in the max camera distance is.. can barely see anything. Just gonna stick with LoL since most of my friends won't play Dota 2 anyways.
    yes because you need lvl 30 to play ranked matches
    but its a secret so dont tell anyone

  12. #972
    Field Marshal pierakor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Why would a support check rune?
    How "mid hero" can blink and kill a support instantly?
    I don't think all professional's ideas are good or accurate. There is no problem with current rune system and as far as I remember it's same for 5, 6 years.

    I do dare to say runes have very little(almost no) impact on game result.
    Well I agree that their ideas aren't perfect and I am happy with the runes how they are but RNG does have an impact. A qop can blink there and kill some low level pretty easy, same goes for many good mid heroes (invoker, storm, butcher, ..)
    I only said a support is not always available to help because
    Quote Originally Posted by pizzashark
    Rune control isn't luck. You're guaranteed to have a rune spawn every 2 minutes on the dot, and if your team isn't in position to control both spawn locations at that time, you simply got outplayed. Your losing that rune, and potentially losing your lane because of it, has absolutely nothing to do with luck and everything to do with execution.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    So i just played a game and went 21-1 as juggernaut, i know not hard.. but we dominated that game and i only got like 1/100th of a battle experience bar.. Is this a joke? if not i won't ever touch it after release because of the grindfest that it is, or if they don't fix how zoomed in the max camera distance is.. can barely see anything. Just gonna stick with LoL since most of my friends won't play Dota 2 anyways.
    stick with LoL mate.

  14. #974
    Bloodsail Admiral MKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    The only thing that leveling up gives you is a cosmetic item. Are you kidding me?
    Rewards are nice and are incentives to keep playing, In TF2 you get an item every 30 mins about. If i want an item in Dota 2 i have to have no life and play 24/7

    And don't try to say Dota 2 is harder than LoL, they are both easy.

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    Rewards are nice and are incentives to keep playing, In TF2 you get an item every 30 mins about. If i want an item in Dota 2 i have to have no life and play 24/7

    And don't try to say Dota 2 is harder than LoL, they are both easy.
    Honestly, this post just screams "Wah wah, my character won't look differently."
    TF2 items actually change how the game plays, not just the shape of your sword.

    And it's certainly more complex.

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    Rewards are nice and are incentives to keep playing, In TF2 you get an item every 30 mins about. If i want an item in Dota 2 i have to have no life and play 24/7
    No.
    item you get after lvling up is just guarantee bonus
    you can get items for each match you play and finish without leaving

    oh
    and stick to LoL :s

  17. #977
    Bloodsail Admiral MKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Honestly, this post just screams "Wah wah, my character won't look differently."
    TF2 items actually change how the game plays, not just the shape of your sword.

    And it's certainly more complex.

    It's not at all more complex, OMG theres a few items that do different things, i have to buy the recipes for some items, there's alot more items. There's a reason LoL took those things out, it's just pointless fluff in the game that adds nothing. It's kinda like Repair costs in RPGs, they add nothing to the game but people keep putting them in, even in games where the economy doesn't matter.

    If anyone really has that much trouble with Dota 2 and seriously considers it hard, there's much more important issues with those peoples mental states.

  18. #978
    A double damage (haste / invis maybe too) rune can be decisive at winning a / the final teambattle. So yes runecontrol can actually be important.

    So don't be cheap, and when you are support just buy wards. And for the semi-cheap supports out there: you only need to place one ward every six minues for runecontrol; If the rune didn't spawn near your ward at <even number>:00 you can be 100% sure the rune spawned on the other side. One ward every six minutes; 200 gold every 12 minutes; less than 17 gold per minute.

    Wards, map control and map awareness people. RNG my #$%.

    (Also keep in mind that the same rune type will NEVER spawn twice in a row. )
    Last edited by conceit2; 2012-06-20 at 07:13 PM.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    It's not at all more complex, OMG theres a few items that do different things, i have to buy the recipes for some items, there's alot more items. There's a reason LoL took those things out, it's just pointless fluff in the game that adds nothing
    Yes, sheepstick, Eul's, Blink Dagger, Force Staff, BKB etc are just fluff and don't promote more thinking when it comes to counters, no not at all.

    How many games of DotA have you played?

  20. #980
    Bloodsail Admiral MKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    A double damage (haste / invis maybe too) rune can be decisive at winning a / the final teambattle. So yes runecontrol can actually be important.

    So don't be cheap, and when you are support just buy wards. And for the semi-cheap supports out there: you only need to place one ward every six minues for runecontrol; If the rune didn't spawn near your ward at <even number>:00 you can be 100% sure the rune spawned on the other side. One ward every six minutes; 200 gold every 12 minutes; less than 17 gold per minute.

    Wards, map control and map awareness people. RNG my #$%.
    Yeah Runes are OP sometimes, i was watching a match where the team that was losings nighthunter got double damage and did a 1v5 and won.

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