[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

Supports are first and foremost going to have to deal with potential aggression. I am not asking someone to sit in the lane and just sap XP, but when I'm being harassed out of lane by two ranged heroes and they safely gank me because the creepwave is at the tower, then someone's doing shit wrong. You cannot just leave a relatively fragile hard carry alone versus two ranged and say "Deal with it," because that's just going to leave you with a severely underfarmed carry.

Usually its the guy that picked a relatively fragile hard carry. I mean unless the other 2 enemy ranged heroes have no idea what they're doing, your "farm" lane is done for.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

That means that you have abandoned and the game is safe to leave for the other people.

But I didn't abandon it? I tried to reconnect, unsuccesfully. This has happened twice, and both times my internet was fine the entire time. Something was obviously wrong with the game/server, not my connection.

[Deleted]

But I didn't abandon it? I tried to reconnect, unsuccesfully. This has happened twice, and both times my internet was fine the entire time. Something was obviously wrong with the game/server, not my connection.

You don't get an abandon if the server goes down and no one can reconnect. It has happened to me several times. You only get abandon if it was only you who couldn't connect.

[Drunkenvalley]

Usually its the guy that picked a relatively fragile hard carry. I mean unless the other 2 enemy ranged heroes have no idea what they're doing, your "farm" lane is done for.

The implication you're making is that safelane is carry's solo lane. In anything resembling organized play that's probably fine, but applying this mentality to solo queue pubgames like All Pick is just daft.

If you're up against two solo and you can't farm because of it you're going to need help. That's the end of the story. People here are talking as if supports shouldn't have to help their carry at any point in their life, and that's just daft. Supports are not expected to have a high level nor gold, since that's something they'll usually get "on the side" (pulling creepwave when the lane is safe, ganking when it's safe to rotate from the lane and/or teamfights).

Supporting is not complex in and of itself. Before you do anything else, you need to make sure your carry is as safe from harm as it gets. That is not a complex mantra. If the carry is safe you can go farm in the jungle and, if you find the time, stack a camp. There are many more things you can do, and it has a fair amount of complexity, but your main task is simple.

Pullcamp for farming is ideal for a number of reasons: It resets the creepline to your tower (or even further back if the carry pulls it away), denies the enemy heroes the XP if they're not skulking in XP range of pullcamp, and gets you free opportunity to farm. But pulling the creepwave is not at the top of priority list as some people seem to like to believe.

[Deleted]

I agree with the dual lane side...I HATE the solo off-lane mindset,it's so annoying.
Every friggin game someone has to jungle or trilane.I seriously WISH I sucked more at this game and I could go back to the simple brackets...2 dual lanes,1 mid lane,no one is a support bitch,farm for everyone,no ''carry'' this ''support'' that,if you can last hit the gold is yours....simply perfect
This might be a noob way to play dota but that's how I love dota 2.

[Deleted]

But I didn't abandon it? I tried to reconnect, unsuccesfully. This has happened twice, and both times my internet was fine the entire time. Something was obviously wrong with the game/server, not my connection.

Since the update after TI3 there have been alot of problems with random players DC'ing and returning a couple of minutes later. Hopefully they are fixing that soon. I have not had the problem but there is almost one or two every single game at the moment :/

[Alraml]

Since the update after TI3 there have been alot of problems with random players DC'ing and returning a couple of minutes later. Hopefully they are fixing that soon. I have not had the problem but there is almost one or two every single game at the moment :/

Yeah i've been experiencing people D/Cing a lot. Matchmaking in general is broken atm, still waiting for some sort of fix

[potis]

Since the update after TI3 there have been alot of problems with random players DC'ing and returning a couple of minutes later. Hopefully they are fixing that soon. I have not had the problem but there is almost one or two every single game at the moment :/

Its probably Steam messing up and not Dota 2.

I had other games running on the background which i didnt get disconnected from while Dota 2 would refuse to reconnect, i quickle restarted Steam and everything was fine, this was before TI3.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Man oh man, this game seriously needs a votekick feature.....

Just had 2 horrible games because of asshole right now.... sigh

[Sarevokcz]

The implication you're making is that safelane is carry's solo lane. In anything resembling organized play that's probably fine, but applying this mentality to solo queue pubgames like All Pick is just daft.

If you're up against two solo and you can't farm because of it you're going to need help. That's the end of the story. People here are talking as if supports shouldn't have to help their carry at any point in their life, and that's just daft. Supports are not expected to have a high level nor gold, since that's something they'll usually get "on the side" (pulling creepwave when the lane is safe, ganking when it's safe to rotate from the lane and/or teamfights).

Supporting is not complex in and of itself. Before you do anything else, you need to make sure your carry is as safe from harm as it gets. That is not a complex mantra. If the carry is safe you can go farm in the jungle and, if you find the time, stack a camp. There are many more things you can do, and it has a fair amount of complexity, but your main task is simple.

Pullcamp for farming is ideal for a number of reasons: It resets the creepline to your tower (or even further back if the carry pulls it away), denies the enemy heroes the XP if they're not skulking in XP range of pullcamp, and gets you free opportunity to farm. But pulling the creepwave is not at the top of priority list as some people seem to like to believe.

pulling the camp IS a way to deal with agression, you have the relative safety of tower to get some lasthits (not to mention the secnod they see you pulled, they will likely rotate jungle and contest the camp, not dive you), which is about thousand times more safer than being between towers with underfarmed and underleveled support that just asks for a dive and kill everytime hes in enemy LoS.

Start adapting to the given situation, buy a stout/poor man/ring for tranquils if you expect heavy harass and ask for an extra tangos, ask for an early gank from mid or other lane. Thats how you deal with bad lane matchup, not blaming supports for trying to give you somewhat safe space to farm... If you got some of the nasty combos like double stunners or annoying orbwalkers? well you wont be getting any farm even if the support sticks to the lane, since if they can harass you, they most likely can just combo kill him.

Or alternatively, stop playing carrys if you dont like how supports are giving you space, play mid, be the one setting the pace of the game, make the ganks and kills happen, you will be the cheered hero, the one who won them the game, not the "pfft, had to farm for 30 minutes before he did anything" carry, who doesnt even like when supports give him safe(r) space to farm.

[Drunkenvalley]

pulling the camp IS a way to deal with agression, you have the relative safety of tower to get some lasthits (not to mention the secnod they see you pulled, they will likely rotate jungle and contest the camp, not dive you), which is about thousand times more safer than being between towers with underfarmed and underleveled support that just asks for a dive and kill everytime hes in enemy LoS.

You don't get relative safety from the tower. If you believe that you're seriously misunderstanding how the towers work. If you've got creeps under the towers that's a free invitation to dive on you, since the aggro of the tower is easily displaced to the creeps. Stop trying to claim pulling creepwave is going to magically be enough to help a carry who's abandoned with heroes just waiting to bash your face in.

The ideal location of the creepwave is just outside of your tower's range, since the absence of targets for the tower to be directed to means anyone diving has to take tower-hits. By the sideshop it's a bit scary, since the enemy can swing around via the jungle to get behind you. A ward in the jungle can spot this though. If you're by the river again it's "okay" so long as you have a ward on the jungle entrance from river, since you'll be able to see anyone rotating bot.

Though in classic Dota 2 style, everything's got an asterisk. There's not an awful lot you can do if someone gets an invis rune and shows up with one or two others to give you surprise buttsex.

Start adapting to the given situation, buy a stout/poor man/ring for tranquils if you expect heavy harass and ask for an extra tangos, ask for an early gank from mid or other lane. Thats how you deal with bad lane matchup, not blaming supports for trying to give you somewhat safe space to farm... If you got some of the nasty combos like double stunners or annoying orbwalkers? well you wont be getting any farm even if the support sticks to the lane, since if they can harass you, they most likely can just combo kill him.

Here's the thing: Two versus one is going to shit on that one hero, unless it's something like Spirit Breaker vs Lina/Spectre early-game. Two versus two will be a match-up at least.

Anyhow, why do you even think I shouldn't be able to ask for more from a support? Since when did pulling creepwave become so incredibly complex and timeconsuming that they're unable to make their presence known and provide some direct support for carry in lane?

[Sarevokcz]

You don't get relative safety from the tower. If you believe that you're seriously misunderstanding how the towers work. If you've got creeps under the towers that's a free invitation to dive on you, since the aggro of the tower is easily displaced to the creeps. Stop trying to claim pulling creepwave is going to magically be enough to help a carry who's abandoned with heroes just waiting to bash your face in.

maybe you dont understand how to play under towers with enemy creeps? they cant dive you if you position yourself properly and give them no opportunity to dive. And like I said, the moment they have no opening, they ARE gonna rotate jungle looking for the pull and the support

Here's the thing: Two versus one is going to shit on that one hero, unless it's something like Spirit Breaker vs Lina/Spectre early-game. Two versus two will be a match-up at least.

No. 2v2 is just slightly less bursty 3v3, there is no "match", there is one side in clear advantage in 95% scenarios

Anyhow, why do you even think I shouldn't be able to ask for more from a support? Since when did pulling creepwave become so incredibly complex and timeconsuming that they're unable to make their presence known and provide some direct support for carry in lane?

Yeah, you gotta play in horrible MMR if your supports dont make their presence known in those 40 seconds between pulls...maybe play the mids with map presence and get to better brackets? because I play in above average bracket and supports arent as horrible as you make them to be, I dont usually play carry if I can avoid it, I play sd/rd/ar exclusively and sometimes there is like no choice, but I can usually make some sort of arrangement with the support before the game starts and I got some absolutely amazing supports from time to time that got commend in the first three minutes of the game. Of course there are some that dont do much, but hey, Im not gonna complain about them if I cant achieve pro level of farm myself (or alteast most of the times)

[Drunkenvalley]

All I said in the first place is that you get bad supports sometimes, and the predominant issue I have is that they literally do not do anything but pull creepwave. Literally. Nothing. But. Pulling. Creepwave.

So thanks for being really rude.

[Deleted]

All I said in the first place is that you get bad supports sometimes, and the predominant issue I have is that they literally do not do anything but pull creepwave. Literally. Nothing. But. Pulling. Creepwave.

So thanks for being really rude.

I wish I had that issue. My supports never pull.

[Trolladin]

Through my Heroes that I've played I've felt the one of the best is the Lifestealer, check out how well I had done in this video.... granted it was just a pug.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Not trying to be ''that person'', but did you just post a video of you playing Naix in a pug, to show how well you did?....

[Deleted]

Not trying to be ''that person'', but did you just post a video of you playing Naix in a pug, to show how well you did?....

Nah he posted a video of him playing Naix in a pug to advertise his Youtube channel

[Deleted]

I seriously don't understand how some people play heroes that have almost permanent invisibility. Like BH, Riki, Clinkz etc. Why'd you constantly farm lanes with those. It baffles me. Stop trying to go take empty lanes because you see some farm because against any competent player, the moment he sees you on a lane he feels safe and can track your entire team's movement by just seeing where you are. Farm woods, move where their wards aren't. This forces them to either invest heavy in sentries or play much more carefully. Such a simple concept yet people just play like idiots.

[Charge me Doctor]

I seriously don't understand how some people play heroes that have almost permanent invisibility. Like BH, Riki, Clinkz etc. Why'd you constantly farm lanes with those. It baffles me. Stop trying to go take empty lanes because you see some farm because against any competent player, the moment he sees you on a lane he feels safe and can track your entire team's movement by just seeing where you are. Farm woods, move where their wards aren't. This forces them to either invest heavy in sentries or play much more carefully. Such a simple concept yet people just play like idiots.

Or go afk. Enemy will be terrified

[Deleted]

Drunkenvalley is right,countless time do I see supports on the enemy safe lane chain pull or simply pull when their carry cant approach a creep within a 600range without losing 1/4 of his health.if you have a ranged hero vs a melee hero its just too easy to zone the enemy carry out,add another ally hero and make it 2vs1 and it's overkill.
then ofc the supports come running back to the lane like madman after a few mins when they notice their carry is shivering near their tower,cause the supports aren't that bad in my bracket at least.
was just funny earlier,enemy alch safelane with support pulling,turns into alch+support in the lane,turns into trilane,turns into a switch and it's their solo laner that ends up in their safe lane.


anyway what makes a good support in an enemy safe lane I think is mainly dewarding,if they can deward your anti-pull ward ok, but also your anti-gank ward?pretty much lane lost if they can play right