1. #10221
    Elemental Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Just look at my poor Leoric game...roar/lasso/cogs/dead/dead a second time/dead a third time/team is all dead anyway because I'm the only one with items.
    I remember in DotA being yelled at for not giving away skadi to a sniper because i played KotL
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #10222
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Yes, that's the other common sloppy argument in these discussions, 'why not give that farm to a hero that needs it more?' There's no point working on an assumption that your team is always going to have an Anti-Mage who is going to need all the farm on the map. And even if you have a hero that is usually better suited as the primary carry you're still going to want to have at least one secondary carry in most games.
    And there is no point working on an assumption that the team doesnt already have core slots filled either. If you have PL and then typical supports like jakiro and CM? sure, have the abba get the farm, but when you already have your core lineup pretty much done, there is no point in excessive farming. And lets be honest, pros arent gonna pick abba as farmer in anything but some rare pocket strats, just like we havent seen naga carry for months.

  3. #10223
    Does it even matter what pros do? How does that affect you when you play Dota2?

  4. #10224
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Does it even matter what pros do? How does that affect you when you play Dota2?
    In which case most games have overabundance of carries, making his entire point moot.

  5. #10225
    All the pros know how to do right now is throw their offlane away and send 2 supports to get their 1 carry in safe lane farmed. Of course Abaddon won't get picked in games like this, and that's what Longview was talking about, I believe (trilane Abaddon viability). I'm arguing how he should be played by most people, hey, like this game I just played:

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/287286730

  6. #10226
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    And there is no point working on an assumption that the team doesnt already have core slots filled either. If you have PL and then typical supports like jakiro and CM? sure, have the abba get the farm, but when you already have your core lineup pretty much done, there is no point in excessive farming. And lets be honest, pros arent gonna pick abba as farmer in anything but some rare pocket strats, just like we havent seen naga carry for months.
    When you're discussing the capabilities of a single hero, making counter-intuitive assumptions serves no point. If you're going to run Abaddon as carry, you probably don't want to intentionally pick 2 other melees as hard carries. There's no reason to say 'well if you run this hero as carry instead of support you're fucking other carries over' when there's no reason to think there are other carries.

    And what pros pick or do right now is completely irrelevant. Using drafting trends and the copycat scheme known as 'metagame' as an excuse is a joke.

  7. #10227
    Titan Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    just out of curiosity did Abaddon even get any representation at all in ti3? I don't agree with the notion that what the pros do shouldn't count, obviously the way pros treat a hero should be a nod to how you and I may want to consider treating him. This isn't a hard rule but if one is trying to recreate success would it not be wise to follow the successful?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #10228
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    just out of curiosity did Abaddon even get any representation at all in ti3? I don't agree with the notion that what the pros do shouldn't count, obviously the way pros treat a hero should be a nod to how you and I may want to consider treating him. This isn't a hard rule but if one is trying to recreate success would it not be wise to follow the successful?
    Abaddon was not in Captain's Mode in Dota 2 until this week. Same goes to Centaur, TC and Troll.

    Obviously it's not a bad idea to be aware of how things are done in competitive circles, but no one should do the mistake of thinking that is the end all be all of dota.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-08-26 at 04:54 AM.

  9. #10229
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    just out of curiosity did Abaddon even get any representation at all in ti3?
    he did not get any representation, because he was not in tournament mode. same goes for elder titan, troll warlord, huskar and medusa.

    e: im slow btw

  10. #10230
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    This isn't a hard rule but if one is trying to recreate success would it not be wise to follow the successful?
    The winrate in tournaments is only 50%.

  11. #10231
    Elemental Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Abbadon is not his team's "main damage dealer", not even when played as a carry. Abbadon is the same as a Dragon Knight, or a Leoric, or a Bristleback - his job is to run in and be such a nuisance and such a colossal pain in the ass that the enemy team HAS to do something about him... but everything they're to him is something they aren't doing to Abbadon's "important" team members. He isn't there to kill people, not really... he's just there to fuck up the enemy team's positioning and coordination by virtue of being an annoying little shit, which lets his team poop on the enemy team while they're too busy cursing about Frostmourne or whatever.

    How is Abbadon's ability to use Aphotic Shield or throw shitcoils around at all affected by him building more aggressively and playing more aggressively? Abbadon's ability to "support" isn't reduced at all by playing him as a carry, but the inverse isn't true - if you build him as a support, you can't play him aggressively.

    So knowing that... why would you ever play him as a support?
    No ones ability to support reduced by playing as a carry
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  12. #10232
    Elemental Lord Drunkenvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    This isn't a hard rule but if one is trying to recreate success would it not be wise to follow the successful?
    Why would you? Repeating how pros play would be incredibly dangerous in most pubgames.

    There are some overarching trends that make sense, like support Naga and fun tricks like pulling creepwave, but so much of what they do needs to be understood before you go ahead and try and repeat it.

  13. #10233
    Elemental Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Why would you? Repeating how pros play would be incredibly dangerous in most pubgames.

    There are some overarching trends that make sense, like support Naga and fun tricks like pulling creepwave, but so much of what they do needs to be understood before you go ahead and try and repeat it.
    Yeah, often you expect people juking your sunstrikes when returning home at low health by queing move commands, but no, they don't
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  14. #10234
    Elemental Lord Drunkenvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Yeah, often you expect people juking your sunstrikes when returning home at low health by queing move commands, but no, they don't
    Admittedly, a lot of stuff pros did in the past is now simply common knowledge. But some things are just strategies, like trilaning, that requires a bit more tact than "three dudes in a lane"

    As an example, Lifestealer+Jakiro+Tidehunter trilane is good against a fair amount of lanes, I imagine. Solo Dark Seer is not one of them.

  15. #10235
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    No ones ability to support reduced by playing as a carry
    Yeah. So remind me, again - why are people wetting their pants over someone playing Abbadon as a carry, then?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  16. #10236
    Elemental Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Yeah. So remind me, again - why are people wetting their pants over someone playing Abbadon as a carry, then?
    Because any kind of CC on him and he is not carry any more and he can't do anyshit about it without BKB but "carry abbadon" don't build BKB for w/e reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  17. #10237
    CC on him is CC not on others, mission complete.

  18. #10238
    Pandaren Monk
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    This is why I play CM for the passive global taunt

  19. #10239
    Elemental Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    CC on him is CC not on others, mission complete.
    CC on others removed by shield. Mission complete. But in that situation, we have reliable carry with escape and/or attack boost, but not that crappy abbadon that tries to catch freaking dark seer who keeps hasting himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #10240
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Because any kind of CC on him and he is not carry any more and he can't do anyshit about it without BKB but "carry abbadon" don't build BKB for w/e reason
    Why do you keep acting like Abbadon is Anti-Mage.

    All of you people need to get it through your thick skulls that "carry" does not mean "afk farming 800gpm Anti-Mage." It just means someone who is given XP and gold priority - your 1, your 2, and probably your 3. That's it. Leshrac can be a "carry." Sand King can be a "carry." Goddamned cunting Crystal Maiden can be a "carry." Role is not defined by anything other than gold and XP priority. How many fucking times do we have to fucking say that?

    Abbadon's sole purpose in life is to be a colossal pain in the ass. He can't die, he's more immune to death than Leoric and equally as immune as Dragon Knight. You run up and whack people with Frostmourne and/or Sange and/or Orb of Venom and keep whacking them until they die, all the while giving a free permanent steroid to your team's real damage output and shitting aphotic shield blasts everywhere.

    Every spell spent on Abbadon is a spell that isn't being spent on his team, and given that Abbadon CANNOT FUCKING DIE, is a "wasted" spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    CC on others removed by shield. Mission complete.
    Then why in the motherfuck are you picking Abbadon? Pick motherfucking Omniknight and be a better Abbadon than Abbadon himself could ever hope to fucking be. If you want to hide in the back like a bitch, pick Omniknight because Repel completely, totally fucking shits on Aphotic Shield in every conceivable way except for maybe peeling off shit like Bestmaster Roar or Reverse Polarity.

    An instant purge versus a 12 second BKB with a 2 second effective cooldown. A heal for fuck all that only hits one target for garbage damage if used as a nuke, versus a heal for 360 that obliterates anything nearby. A move speed slow buff placer on a single target versus a permanent fucking [i]aura[i] that slows move AND attack speeds on everything in range. Personal invulnerability versus invulnerability for all teammates AND creeps in range.

    Guess what? Fucking Omniknight is a better support than Abbadon could ever fucking hope to be, and he's still better played as a carry, because your Degen Aura or Frostmoure are doing precisely fuck-all if you're hiding in the back because you have no items and no gold.

    Abbadon is at his best when he's up front, being a complete nuisance, and whacking people to death.

    Literally the only reason you would ever pick Abbadon over Omniknight is if you can make effective use of Borrowed Time, and support Abbadon CANNOT FUCKING DO THAT.

    Who the fuck cares if Dark Seer surges himself away? Guess what? HE'S RUNNING THE FUCK AWAY, BRO. Guess what someone that's RUNNING THE FUCK AWAY isn't doing? Fighting!

    They have a tower? Fuck them, ignore the tower, you have death immunity. They have a lot of stuns? Fuck them, your death immunity doesn't give a flying rat fuck about stuns, or silences, or ensnares, or literally fucking anything, because Borrowed Time removes fucking everything, even motherfucking Doom when it activates. They have Axe? Who the fuck cares, Axe has to be level 16 before he can reliably kill you before you get SOME kind of healing off of your ulti, pushing you outside the kill threshold.

    Seriously, it's like you don't fucking understand how ridiculously good Borrowed Time is, and how good it lets Abbadon be. People talk about Leoric not caring about dying, but Abbadon cares even less because he CAN'T die unless his team completely abandons him, and even if they do, if you aren't a fucking retard and have built Abbadon as a carry, he'll still probably bring someone down with him, 1v5 or not.

    You're talking about Aphotic Shield as if by building Abbadon as a carry, he can't use it on teammates. He can, and he will because Abbadon himself has BORROWED TIME to stay alive with. Did you forget about that whole "When activated, most negative buffs will be removed" thing? BM ult, Magnus ult, BR ult, fucking Doom ult, ALL OF THAT SHIT is REMOVED when it activates, and it activates auto-fucking-matically if you happen to get close to dying, and it costs nothing, AND it has a 40 fucking second cooldown at level 16.

    40 seconds. That means every 40 seconds, you can do whatever the fuck you want, utterly free of fear of reprisal, because you are guaranteed to not die. Push when the entire enemy team is missing, who gives a fuck, you can just walk the fuck away and they can't do shit about it, because you can't fucking die.

    And consider: what the fuck is little scared bitch Anti-Mage or PL or whoever the fuck is trendy right now, I can't be bothered to give two shits, gonna do when it's 20 minutes in and you're pushing the fuck out of towers because you're motherfucking Abbadon and fucking towers mean nothing to your studly ass? Cry OP? Sure, Anti-Mage is going to fold you like a cheap plastic chair at 45 minutes in, but you aren't going to let the game go to 45 minutes because you're fucking Abbadon and you aren't retarded and you're playing to the hero's strengths rather than his "I'm not actually Omniknight" weaknesses.

    Shit, go into his fucking jungle and take it over. What's he gonna do, fight back? Hah! You can't die, remember? But he sure as fuck can if he thinks he can fight you. Shit, even Ursa might not be able to take Abbadon, and Ursa's a better carry than virtually every other trending pick except maybe, like, Alchemist or something.

    But where was I? Oh, right - just because you're being a big, manly carry Abbadon doesn't mean you somehow lose the ability to cast your shield on teammates. It has a 6 fucking second cooldown. Who the shit cares, throw it around like crazy. Throw it on yourself when you run in. After the enemy team wastes its shit on you (remember, it's all wasted because YOU CANNOT FUCKING DIE, I can't stress that part enough), the cooldown's up and you can throw it at your teammates or creeps or fucking donkey because, hey, they just used their best shit just trying to keep you from lighting up that asshole Jakiro trying to hide in the back, and anything they have left or coming off cooldown... well, they can let you kill someone, or they can use it on your teammates, get it removed, and let you kill someone anyway.

    Seriously.

    Stop fucking playing Abbadon as a support. He's a garbage support. If you want him to be a little ward bitch support, at least pick Omniknight because Omni is better at that sort of thing.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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