1. #10241
    CC on him is CC not on others, mission complete.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  2. #10242
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    (´・ω・`)
    Posts
    1,756
    This is why I play CM for the passive global taunt

  3. #10243
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Posts
    5,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    CC on him is CC not on others, mission complete.
    CC on others removed by shield. Mission complete. But in that situation, we have reliable carry with escape and/or attack boost, but not that crappy abbadon that tries to catch freaking dark seer who keeps hasting himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  4. #10244
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    11,800
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Because any kind of CC on him and he is not carry any more and he can't do anyshit about it without BKB but "carry abbadon" don't build BKB for w/e reason
    Why do you keep acting like Abbadon is Anti-Mage.

    All of you people need to get it through your thick skulls that "carry" does not mean "afk farming 800gpm Anti-Mage." It just means someone who is given XP and gold priority - your 1, your 2, and probably your 3. That's it. Leshrac can be a "carry." Sand King can be a "carry." Goddamned cunting Crystal Maiden can be a "carry." Role is not defined by anything other than gold and XP priority. How many fucking times do we have to fucking say that?

    Abbadon's sole purpose in life is to be a colossal pain in the ass. He can't die, he's more immune to death than Leoric and equally as immune as Dragon Knight. You run up and whack people with Frostmourne and/or Sange and/or Orb of Venom and keep whacking them until they die, all the while giving a free permanent steroid to your team's real damage output and shitting aphotic shield blasts everywhere.

    Every spell spent on Abbadon is a spell that isn't being spent on his team, and given that Abbadon CANNOT FUCKING DIE, is a "wasted" spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    CC on others removed by shield. Mission complete.
    Then why in the motherfuck are you picking Abbadon? Pick motherfucking Omniknight and be a better Abbadon than Abbadon himself could ever hope to fucking be. If you want to hide in the back like a bitch, pick Omniknight because Repel completely, totally fucking shits on Aphotic Shield in every conceivable way except for maybe peeling off shit like Bestmaster Roar or Reverse Polarity.

    An instant purge versus a 12 second BKB with a 2 second effective cooldown. A heal for fuck all that only hits one target for garbage damage if used as a nuke, versus a heal for 360 that obliterates anything nearby. A move speed slow buff placer on a single target versus a permanent fucking [i]aura[i] that slows move AND attack speeds on everything in range. Personal invulnerability versus invulnerability for all teammates AND creeps in range.

    Guess what? Fucking Omniknight is a better support than Abbadon could ever fucking hope to be, and he's still better played as a carry, because your Degen Aura or Frostmoure are doing precisely fuck-all if you're hiding in the back because you have no items and no gold.

    Abbadon is at his best when he's up front, being a complete nuisance, and whacking people to death.

    Literally the only reason you would ever pick Abbadon over Omniknight is if you can make effective use of Borrowed Time, and support Abbadon CANNOT FUCKING DO THAT.

    Who the fuck cares if Dark Seer surges himself away? Guess what? HE'S RUNNING THE FUCK AWAY, BRO. Guess what someone that's RUNNING THE FUCK AWAY isn't doing? Fighting!

    They have a tower? Fuck them, ignore the tower, you have death immunity. They have a lot of stuns? Fuck them, your death immunity doesn't give a flying rat fuck about stuns, or silences, or ensnares, or literally fucking anything, because Borrowed Time removes fucking everything, even motherfucking Doom when it activates. They have Axe? Who the fuck cares, Axe has to be level 16 before he can reliably kill you before you get SOME kind of healing off of your ulti, pushing you outside the kill threshold.

    Seriously, it's like you don't fucking understand how ridiculously good Borrowed Time is, and how good it lets Abbadon be. People talk about Leoric not caring about dying, but Abbadon cares even less because he CAN'T die unless his team completely abandons him, and even if they do, if you aren't a fucking retard and have built Abbadon as a carry, he'll still probably bring someone down with him, 1v5 or not.

    You're talking about Aphotic Shield as if by building Abbadon as a carry, he can't use it on teammates. He can, and he will because Abbadon himself has BORROWED TIME to stay alive with. Did you forget about that whole "When activated, most negative buffs will be removed" thing? BM ult, Magnus ult, BR ult, fucking Doom ult, ALL OF THAT SHIT is REMOVED when it activates, and it activates auto-fucking-matically if you happen to get close to dying, and it costs nothing, AND it has a 40 fucking second cooldown at level 16.

    40 seconds. That means every 40 seconds, you can do whatever the fuck you want, utterly free of fear of reprisal, because you are guaranteed to not die. Push when the entire enemy team is missing, who gives a fuck, you can just walk the fuck away and they can't do shit about it, because you can't fucking die.

    And consider: what the fuck is little scared bitch Anti-Mage or PL or whoever the fuck is trendy right now, I can't be bothered to give two shits, gonna do when it's 20 minutes in and you're pushing the fuck out of towers because you're motherfucking Abbadon and fucking towers mean nothing to your studly ass? Cry OP? Sure, Anti-Mage is going to fold you like a cheap plastic chair at 45 minutes in, but you aren't going to let the game go to 45 minutes because you're fucking Abbadon and you aren't retarded and you're playing to the hero's strengths rather than his "I'm not actually Omniknight" weaknesses.

    Shit, go into his fucking jungle and take it over. What's he gonna do, fight back? Hah! You can't die, remember? But he sure as fuck can if he thinks he can fight you. Shit, even Ursa might not be able to take Abbadon, and Ursa's a better carry than virtually every other trending pick except maybe, like, Alchemist or something.

    But where was I? Oh, right - just because you're being a big, manly carry Abbadon doesn't mean you somehow lose the ability to cast your shield on teammates. It has a 6 fucking second cooldown. Who the shit cares, throw it around like crazy. Throw it on yourself when you run in. After the enemy team wastes its shit on you (remember, it's all wasted because YOU CANNOT FUCKING DIE, I can't stress that part enough), the cooldown's up and you can throw it at your teammates or creeps or fucking donkey because, hey, they just used their best shit just trying to keep you from lighting up that asshole Jakiro trying to hide in the back, and anything they have left or coming off cooldown... well, they can let you kill someone, or they can use it on your teammates, get it removed, and let you kill someone anyway.

    Seriously.

    Stop fucking playing Abbadon as a support. He's a garbage support. If you want him to be a little ward bitch support, at least pick Omniknight because Omni is better at that sort of thing.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  5. #10245
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Because any kind of CC on him and he is not carry any more and he can't do anyshit about it without BKB but "carry abbadon" don't build BKB for w/e reason
    You're forgetting that Abaddon can shield out of any snares and hit Borrowed Time to get out of any stun or silence (not that he has to care much about just silences), which makes BKB quite redundant. I don't know why so many people seem forget that you can actually use your ultimate at any time instead of getting fingered to death because they didn't want to use it 'too early.'

    Abaddon is a better support than Omni in the first 5-15 minutes of the game in most situations, and not too long after that he becomes quite redundant. Unless you essentially win the game in 15-20 minutes or start farming for real by the mid game your hero falls off faster than almost any other support.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-08-27 at 06:36 AM.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  6. #10246
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Stop fucking playing Abbadon as a support. He's a garbage support. If you want him to be a little ward bitch support, at least pick Omniknight because Omni is better at that sort of thing.
    hows he not the single best trilane support hero in the pool again

    Regular Dota

    Ranked Only
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    people who smoke weed past primary school dont deserve jobs. weed is for little kids. you should stop smoking it and move on to real people things

  7. #10247
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    hows he not the single best trilane support hero in the pool again
    Undying is better. Lich is better. Subjective opinions of course.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  8. #10248
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Posts
    5,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    You're forgetting that Abaddon can shield out of any snares and hit Borrowed Time to get out of any stun or silence (not that he has to care much about just silences), which makes BKB quite redundant. I don't know why so many people seem forget that you can actually use your ultimate at any time instead of getting fingered to death because they didn't want to use it 'too early.'

    Abaddon is a better support than Omni in the first 5-15 minutes of the game in most situations, and not too long after that he becomes quite redundant. Unless you essentially win the game in 15-20 minutes or start farming for real by the mid game your hero falls off faster than almost any other support.
    He is one of the best supports for first 5-15 minutes in the game, that's why he is so good at trilanes, because there is only first 5-15 minutes that matters.
    If i remember correctly, this shield can even remove flame lasso, so if enemy has only 1 hero to initiate he can be very helpful. But Abbadon as a carry? I haven't seen it for very very long time. Well, if you don't count these 60:10 games where even CM has BKB, aghs and blink.
    He has no skills to scale with items, just attacks, it's stupid to call him a carry because he can' be killed. The hell, i call Dazzle carry then, he has heal, death immunity, slow+ministun and armor boost/repelent

    Also, his (Abbadon) counters are very niche picks (axe and slark) so he can be cool about being 1-shotted. But again, all his presence in teamfights is purging shields, MS boost and weak heal.

    And the thing about his ultimate is that he can't control it all the time. Yes, you can use it to purge from yourself CC but then you can't save your ass (if it is needed). But on other side, if getting rid of this CC will secure the teamfight, you won't even need to stay alive. And your enemy have an option to pop it on you prematurely to be sure that you won't be getting away in next 40 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  9. #10249
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Undying is better. Lich is better. Subjective opinions of course.
    neither fit in universally in any trilane as well as abaddon do

    undying maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    He is one of the best supports for first 5-15 minutes in the game, that's why he is so good at trilanes, because there is only first 5-15 minutes that matters.
    no

    its because if you trilane (esp offensive) your supports will be underleveled like hell

    unless the game ends at 15 minutes, i would say that the time after 15 minutes does matter

    Regular Dota

    Ranked Only
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    people who smoke weed past primary school dont deserve jobs. weed is for little kids. you should stop smoking it and move on to real people things

  10. #10250
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,686
    Support in pub games:
    Your team won, you get no recognizion.
    Your team lost, you get all the blame.

    And people wonder why supports are rare?
    Worst thing in the entire game is to be the only support on your team, all your gold used on wards and courier, unless you get assist kills you're basically gonna end up being a free kill for the enemy team. So much fun being level 13 with brown boots and magic wand.
    Honestly unless your team has 2 supports you almost shouldn't bother, it's such a unrewarding playstyle and it's HARD to do well.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  11. #10251
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Support in pub games:
    Your team won, you get no recognizion.
    Your team lost, you get all the blame.

    And people wonder why supports are rare?
    Worst thing in the entire game is to be the only support on your team, all your gold used on wards and courier, unless you get assist kills you're basically gonna end up being a free kill for the enemy team. So much fun being level 13 with brown boots and magic wand.
    Honestly unless your team has 2 supports you almost shouldn't bother, it's such a unrewarding playstyle and it's HARD to do well.
    Yup, I would never support in solo queue to be honest. Supporting is a massive waste of time if you don't have good teammates. You can ward everywhere, stack every camp fifty times, but if your team doesn't know how to pay attention and farm nothing is going to be accomplished anyway. I dislike playing supports in general, but in solo queue it's not worth it at all. No matter what hero I random I play them as a carry, Lion, CM, Dazzle, Ancient Apparition, doesn't matter, they're a carry if I get them without friends in the game.

  12. #10252
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    The hell, i call Dazzle carry then.
    Dazzle is a great carry. As a matter of fact most heroes are, if played right.


    Saying you need an attack steroid skill to be a carry is downright ridiculous. And saying Abaddon has none is even more so. Even if you don't consider the spammable CC dispels and heals from shield and BT to be 'carry' traits, you'll still have to consider that Abaddon has good base MS, great attack animation, 40 IAS from Frostmourne, 20% Slow and 15% MS boost on top of his great base. More things to make you stick to your target than most melee carries can say. And 40 IAS isn't a joke, a lot of strength carries suffer from not getting enough IAS into their builds early.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  13. #10253
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Frostmourne is not his steroid - it's more like a team-wide buff, which you can (and should) apply even if you play Abaddon as a poor support with nothing but brown boots and sticks.

  14. #10254
    A little song for us supports, and also us who enjoy CM (and a little puck :P):
    Your lord is under attack! Your lord is under attack!

  15. #10255
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjalar View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Frostmourne is not his steroid - it's more like a team-wide buff, which you can (and should) apply even if you play Abaddon as a poor support with nothing but brown boots and sticks.
    So are Empowering Haste, Howl, Stygian Desolator and such, but these effects all exists to first and foremost buff yourself, the fact that everyone else benefit from them is a bonus. If you insist that Frostmourne is not a steroid, then neither are Trueshot Aura, Presence of the Dark Lord, Battle Trance, Amplify Damage, Natural Order... Well, you get the point.

    Your ability to actually be in the middle of a fight as an underfarmed, underleveled support is much more limited than that of a carry Abaddon, and when you don't actually deal damage you're also putting yourself at a considerable risk just to apply Frostmourne. You may still not die easily, but your ability to stay in the fight and avoid CC will be reduced greatly. When you're support, the decision on whether or not your should be in the middle of a fight may not be an easy one, but when you're carry it will be almost impossible to go wrong.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  16. #10256
    My choice of words was bad - Frostmourne is a steroid for a carry Abaddon, no doubt. My point is that a support Abaddon can provide it just as well, which means you can't just say "well, Abaddon has Frostmourne (steroid), hence he's a good carry", which you kinda implied in your previous post.

    As for the second part of your post - that's true, but like Lysah says, every CC and damage soaked by Abaddon = less CC and damage soaked by his team and I think it's a lot better if your tank is one of your supports, which lets real damage dealers (like AM, Gyro, Sven, Luna or anything else that can beat the crap out of the entire team if left alone in a team fight), well, deal damage.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to argue on how Abaddon should be played. I'm totally cool with even CM being played as a carry if that results in a won game. Just arguing about semantics, I guess.

  17. #10257
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjalar View Post
    My choice of words was bad - Frostmourne is a steroid for a carry Abaddon, no doubt. My point is that a support Abaddon can provide it just as well, which means you can't just say "well, Abaddon has Frostmourne (steroid), hence he's a good carry", which you kinda implied in your previous post.

    As for the second part of your post - that's true, but like Lysah says, every CC and damage soaked by Abaddon = less CC and damage soaked by his team and I think it's a lot better if your tank is one of your supports, which lets real damage dealers (like AM, Gyro, Sven, Luna or anything else that can beat the crap out of the entire team if left alone in a team fight), well, deal damage.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to argue on how Abaddon should be played. I'm totally cool with even CM being played as a carry if that results in a won game. Just arguing about semantics, I guess.

    You can't be a 'tank' without being a threat. As a lowly support you run in, eat a single CC and some AoE, your BT pops, and now you have to either make a stand or run for it. And as a melee you just become collateral damage when you sit on top of all your real damage dealers. Or if you stay apart from other heroes, you can just be ignored. Your enemy need to be afraid that you're going to cleave someone in half if they don't do anything about just you. If you're not dangerous by yourself, you risk either getting ignored or succumbing to every AoE ability your enemy has.

    Even if you can somehow force the enemy to toss a Primal Roar at you as a support, which would be a pretty good job, it would probably still be end of the front line fighting for you because you probably took enough damage to pop your BT which means you'll either run or die in a few seconds. As a carry you can just continue charging the enemy and they will be forced to throw even more stuff at you or get cleaved in half.

    And I can still say that Abaddon has Frostmourne which is part of what makes him a good carry. Shield is part what makes him a decent support, Frostmourne is rather weak for a support role ability. A bit like support Omniknight - Heal, Repel and GA make him a good support, but Degen Aura is slightly out of place in a support toolkit.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-08-27 at 11:21 AM.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  18. #10258
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    You can't be a 'tank' without being a threat. As a lowly support you run in, eat a single CC and some AoE, your BT pops, and now you have to either make a stand or run for it. And as a melee you just become collateral damage when you sit on top of all your real damage dealers. Or if you stay apart from other heroes, you can just be ignored. Your enemy need to be afraid that you're going to cleave someone in half if they don't do anything about just you. If you're not dangerous by yourself, you risk either getting ignored or succumbing to every AoE ability your enemy has.
    Well, you can say this about literally every hero in the game, if you play him as a support. If you're not scary for the other team, you run in, apply debuffs, spam shields and heals - mission accomplished. If they don't want you to do that (=you suddenly become scary), you eat their shit and die (and I guess Abaddon, even half-naked, will last longer than most supports in the middle of a fight anyway), while your team doesn't eat their shit and keeps fighting - mission accomplished. I don't see how this proves that he's a bad support, if that's what you're saying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, do you realize that I exaggerated when I said "poor support with only brown boots and sticks"? Pretty sure that even when playing as a support, it's possible to find a bit of gold here and there to get a shield and some strength if Abaddon is expected to debuff people in team fights.

  19. #10259
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    11,800
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Dazzle is a great carry. As a matter of fact most heroes are, if played right.


    Saying you need an attack steroid skill to be a carry is downright ridiculous. And saying Abaddon has none is even more so. Even if you don't consider the spammable CC dispels and heals from shield and BT to be 'carry' traits, you'll still have to consider that Abaddon has good base MS, great attack animation, 40 IAS from Frostmourne, 20% Slow and 15% MS boost on top of his great base. More things to make you stick to your target than most melee carries can say. And 40 IAS isn't a joke, a lot of strength carries suffer from not getting enough IAS into their builds early.
    I love a fast Armlet on Abbadon, maybe stopping for an Urn and/or Orb along the way. Makes you really hard to kill (armlet toggling even when Borrowed Time is on cooldown), it's easy to build, gives you a ridiculous amount of stats for the cost, and I feel it's still a late-game relevant item on Strength heroes so it never really falls off.

    But then again, I'm not quite as obsessed with Lothar's as Lysah is
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  20. #10260
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjalar View Post
    Well, you can say this about literally every hero in the game, if you play him as a support. If you're not scary for the other team, you run in, apply debuffs, spam shields and heals - mission accomplished. If they don't want you to do that (=you suddenly become scary), you eat their shit and die (and I guess Abaddon, even half-naked, will last longer than most supports in the middle of a fight anyway), while your team doesn't eat their shit and keeps fighting - mission accomplished. I don't see how this proves that he's a bad support, if that's what you're saying.
    The difference in here is that Abaddon is melee. That makes him much more difficult to position than most supports to be efficient with Frostmourne. And because of the nature of Frostmourne, you also want to be hitting whatever your damage dealers are hitting, and especially if they're melee, you're setting yourself up to eat a lot of shit that is being aimed at your carries. If you soak AoE silences and stuns and such you're also seriously hurting your ability to perform your other tasks, such as shielding the damn carry.

    Besides, brown boots and stick aren't all that unlikely for 20 minute items if you're the only support in your team.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I love a fast Armlet on Abbadon, maybe stopping for an Urn and/or Orb along the way. Makes you really hard to kill (armlet toggling even when Borrowed Time is on cooldown), it's easy to build, gives you a ridiculous amount of stats for the cost, and I feel it's still a late-game relevant item on Strength heroes so it never really falls off.
    I'd definitely build Armlet for LoA, even if I had to play as a kind of a support I'd still try to finish it at some point. One 2600 gold item turns you into a threat against most heroes and makes you that much harder to kill. Too bad I've only played Abaddon twice so far since dota/hon days.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-08-27 at 12:38 PM.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •