1. #1121
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    yes, hes similar to krob, tanky carry spellcaster
    the longer teamfight last the more dmg and HEALING necro deals
    im not saying that hes best hero ever but he definitely have a place as carry
    Unfortunately, no one is going to let you play him this way. A fed necro can be undoubtedly pretty stupid, but where is all that farm going to come from. And you know the second you get necro your team is thinking "SUPPORT COVERED TIME TO PICK AM."

    And I would think he would do even worse in a 5 man, then you'd be playing non-pubs.

    @Pizza
    -Omni
    Degen doesn't really change team fights, the skill points are for chases and cleanup more than anything.


    Also, the matchmaking system leaves a lot to complain about. Just went on 6 win streak today, feeling good? Don't worry, you'll lose 8 in a row tomorrow, regardless of how well you play.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  2. #1122
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Why bother with Degen at all, then? You need stats early so you can actually cast your spells, since Omni's base stats and stat growth are fucking terrible. You only want a single point in Repel because you don't want 16 seconds of not being able to heal someone (and being only 1 point keeps it nice and cheap to cast.)

    By time you can afford to take Degen aura (usually around lvl 10 or 12), the laning phase is well over and chasing as Omni usually just gets you killed.

    Again: Why would you take Omni over other options? Even if you wanted a heal, Dazzle does that better, he's ranged, Shallow Grave shits on Repel, and his ult can be damned near as good for pushing down towers (it's not invulnerability but giving your entire team +10 armor makes a significant impact.)
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
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    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  3. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    Yeah Necro is a carry.
    Necro is NOT a carry.

    learn dota before comment.

    and don't bring some stupid terms that are copied from LoL...like caster carry..wtf is that?in LoL mages can carry in DotA you can't carry with spells(with exception of few auto-cast spells). I'm totally sick of idiotic terms of LoL that are being applied to dota.

    "tanky-bruiserish-AP-spellcasting-CCer-Disabler-carry" yup that's what Necro is

    /sarcasm off

    necro = support(plain and simple), if you would like to use it for other roles, you're going to fail. No chance, not even a bit.

    carry = right click power...
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-06-26 at 01:20 PM.

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Just went on 6 win streak today, feeling good? Don't worry, you'll lose 8 in a row tomorrow, regardless of how well you play.
    This.

    Also, stealing Brewmaster ult with Rubick is awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Necro is NOT a carry.
    I generally consider him not to be a carry either; he wil instantly kill one or two heroes with or without a lot of expensive items, and there are generally other heroes in your team who benefit more from the farm than you do.

    But then again, heck, I've seen stranger heroes carry.
    Last edited by conceit2; 2012-06-26 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #1125
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Also, the matchmaking system leaves a lot to complain about. Just went on 6 win streak today, feeling good? Don't worry, you'll lose 8 in a row tomorrow, regardless of how well you play.
    MoM 4-wraith-band Sniper, man.


    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Again: Why would you take Omni over other options? Even if you wanted a heal, Dazzle does that better, he's ranged, Shallow Grave shits on Repel, and his ult can be damned near as good for pushing down towers (it's not invulnerability but giving your entire team +10 armor makes a significant impact.)
    Because your composition and the enemy composition calls for it? What if the enemy picks Axe, now what're you gonna do with your precious shallow grave?

  6. #1126
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Is Magnataur classified as a support? Seems like he could be an alternative to support-Tidehunter or support-Sand King; he's got a cheap, spammable linear AOE, his ult is like Ravage on crack (would probably combo well with DS wall, WR shackle, Enigma black hole, SK epicenter, etc), and he provides a ridiculously strong steroid for carries, especially melee carries (skip the battlefury, you got a magnataur.)

    Magnus is not a support but you can support with it. He will be at his optimal efficiency when rushed to blink and early levels if possible. It would be more accurate if you classify him as "initializer" but his role is indetical to SK and TH or even more damage-dealer'ish.

    edit: I removed a part which contains wrong information.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-06-26 at 02:27 PM.

  7. #1127
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Why bother with Degen at all, then? You need stats early so you can actually cast your spells, since Omni's base stats and stat growth are fucking terrible. You only want a single point in Repel because you don't want 16 seconds of not being able to heal someone (and being only 1 point keeps it nice and cheap to cast.)

    By time you can afford to take Degen aura (usually around lvl 10 or 12), the laning phase is well over and chasing as Omni usually just gets you killed.

    Again: Why would you take Omni over other options? Even if you wanted a heal, Dazzle does that better, he's ranged, Shallow Grave shits on Repel, and his ult can be damned near as good for pushing down towers (it's not invulnerability but giving your entire team +10 armor makes a significant impact.)
    Omni's heal is a hell of a lot stronger than Dazzle's.

    Dazzle doesn't have repel at all, which is one of the best spells in the game. Not only is repel a free BKB for your carry, it also clears debuffs (enjoy the raging enemy venomancer). Omni's ult also beats anything Dazzle has to give.

    Omni can utterly crush lanes while supporting a stunner. Try sandking/omniknight sometime, or AM/omni, and see what a blink+purification can do to people. Purification is the strongest consistent nuke in the game, and also a 360 heal. Pretty ridiculous.

    Like I said, you'll see omni a lot more when the rest of the right click carries get added.


    @Definition of carry
    -Anyone who can create kills late game. There are plenty of caster carries in DotA. Zeus, Invoker, Krobelus, Pugna, QoP, Lesh, Storm, Tinker, and then the agility caster carries Morph, SF, PotM, Viper. I'd also like to bring up a previous comment I made - why do you think Morph/SF/PotM are so FotM right now? They're caster carries, the game is spellcentric. That's why Omni doesn't seem as good.


    I disagree with all of the above posts -
    Necro isn't a carry. And isn't a support. He's both. Plenty of heroes do one or the other better, no one does both at the same time like him.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-06-26 at 01:48 PM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  8. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Necro is NOT a carry.

    necro = support(plain and simple), if you would like to use it for other roles, you're going to fail. No chance, not even a bit.

    carry = right click power...
    sorry but you are wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    learn dota before comment.
    that comment applies to you, not me
    2-3 years ago necro was 100% ban/pick as carry role

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    and don't bring some stupid terms that are copied from LoL...like caster carry..wtf is that?in LoL mages can carry in DotA you can't carry with spells(with exception of few auto-cast spells). I'm totally sick of idiotic terms of LoL that are being applied to dota.

    "tanky-bruiserish-AP-spellcasting-CCer-Disabler-carry" yup that's what Necro is
    /sarcasm off
    i dont even play LoL :3

    necro is shity support what hes going to do in team fight?
    heal once and die thats all

    but if hes in same spot as krob normally would be necro can keep your team alive for very long time while dealing huge damage
    he just cant push as fast as e.g. korb thats why you dont see him picked now a days


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    empower only lats 15 sec or so
    *cough* *cough*
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    learn dota before comment.
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-06-26 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    80 seconds? What?
    that guy sand king. he was sitting in this storm for a while and I moused over him and it said 80 seconds. Had a good laugh about that.

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
    that guy sand king. he was sitting in this storm for a while and I moused over him and it said 80 seconds. Had a good laugh about that.
    Walk back to base, buy dust, walk back, use dust. If he seriously channels for the entire duration you should have time to do that.

  11. #1131
    Sand King OP
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    Rule of life. No change rule.
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  12. #1132
    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    This.

    Also, stealing Brewmaster ult with Rubick is awesome.




    I generally consider him not to be a carry either; he wil instantly kill one or two heroes with or without a lot of expensive items, and there are generally other heroes in your team who benefit more from the farm than you do.

    But then again, heck, I've seen stranger heroes carry.
    Necro can't kill two heroes instantly with cheap items....He can't even kill A hero instantly with his full build. Necro can only eliminate one of the enemy heroes if he/she's under %56 hp(with aganim upgrade).

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-26 at 05:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    sorry but you are wrong
    no need be sorry, I'll prove you wrong in 1 min.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    that comment applies to you, not me
    2-3 years ago necro was 100% ban/pick as carry role
    I don't remember 3 years ago but that was 3 years ago anyway...His abilities may have changed or nerfed bla bla I don't remember and it's not 3 years ago now so rubbish information and not relevant.

    oh and b4 you say "I'M PLAYING DIS GAME BLA BLA YEARS YOU DON'T"

    7 years of dota experience here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    necro is shity support what hes going to do in team fight?
    heal once and die thats all
    From that logic, every heal spell with cooldown is rubbish?

    Dazzle...uhm heal once and die, not a support he's carry.
    Omni...heal once and die, not a support he's carry
    venge...she can't even heal, she's carry.

    tell me a hero with spammable heal.

    CD of Dazzle's heal: 12/10/8/6
    CD of Omni Knight's heal: 12
    CD of Necrolyte's heal: 8/7/6/5


    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    but if hes in same spot as krob normally would be necro can keep your team alive for very long time while dealing huge damage
    he just cant push as fast as e.g. korb thats why you dont see him picked now a days
    Let's see dat huge damage.

    Death Pulse -> 275
    Heartstopper Aura %1.2 hp per sec (%1.2 of 3k hp = 36hp per sec OMG HUGE DAMAGEEEEE)
    Reaper's Scythe (U) will kill you if you're below %56 with aganim upgrade.

    Now you say he's carry so this means his real power will pop after min 30.

    at min 30, 15-36 damage per sec won't even matter.
    at min 30, dat UBER HUGE 275 damage won't matter.

    only thing that matters is his ulti and that's only if enemy hero lost %30, 40 hp. and then you're done once you spend your ulti.

    mr.pro don't comment if you dunno DotA.

    Necro = support

    end of discussion.

    ps: about magnatur empower...I wrote before I checked. I was wrong it lasts 40 seconds.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-06-26 at 02:25 PM.

  13. #1133
    You need to see more necros, then. Between radiance/skadi/SY/guinsoo/bloodstone/BoT necro can kill two or three heroes at a time by himself.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  14. #1134
    you've brought a smile to my face

    once again
    you are wrong

    but ill let you live in ignorance

  15. #1135
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    Supports are meant to be able to control the fights. In what way can necrolyte control a fight if he have low hp and bad survivability? No he cant. Thats why you get tanky items on him and right click away while spamming your heal dealing a lot of dmg during a fight. If you would only stand back and try to support your team you would not offer anything.

  16. #1136
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    I'm out of arguments to counter your logic
    fixed for you. :>

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    Supports are meant to be able to control the fights. In what way can necrolyte control a fight if he have low hp and bad survivability? No he cant. Thats why you get tanky items on him and right click away while spamming your heal dealing a lot of dmg during a fight. If you would only stand back and try to support your team you would not offer anything.
    right click with Necro?

    /facepalm

    The most important role of a support is lane control...win the lane, win the game. Not some stupid fight control at min 40 where enemy carry will one-shot you anyway.
    I could calculate how fucked up Necro's right click damage with tanky items as you say but I won't bother for bunch of noobs.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-06-26 at 02:34 PM.

  17. #1137
    Lane support means little in DotA. I win lanes and lose games on a daily basis. There are three of them after all, it's not like LoL where the only lane that matters is bot.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    You need to see more necros, then. Between radiance/skadi/SY/guinsoo/bloodstone/BoT necro can kill two or three heroes at a time by himself.
    Three hero?
    Which heroes, What items, Agains which setup

    I've seen enough necros.. you should see some pro games that's all.

    You're bragging you have 10 years of dota experience but then you give some poor example of a hypothetical pwnage with no real information...

    show me more ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Lane support means little in DotA. I win lanes and lose games on a daily basis. There are three of them after all, it's not like LoL where the only lane that matters is bot.

    you just did...

    I don't even know what to say...

    no lane control = no gold, no xp, push

    no gold = no item for your team but most importantly your carry.
    no xp = no powerful spells
    push = you're fucked.

    oh btw I don't care your avarage pubs...They can not be reference because I don't know what kind of players you're playing with.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-06-26 at 02:46 PM.

  19. #1139
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Walk back to base, buy dust, walk back, use dust. If he seriously channels for the entire duration you should have time to do that.
    yeah true, I'm just not used to these incredibly long stuns and silences. The first time Bane was cast on me I thought omg a 13 second silence that's just mental. Its just strange coming from another game and seeing everyone sprinting around the map at super high speeds casting insanely long stuns and silences. The camera is zoomed in too much for the speeds people are running around and that large blunky interface doesn't help. Much better if you could toggle it off/on just to free up some vertical space.

    I have yet to play a game where people want to play it correctly with carries, supports, tanks etc. Everyone just chooses their hero and randomly runs around the map. No matter if your winning or losing people are just leaving as soon as they die 3-4 times in a row. Sometimes its better not to beat the other team up so much in fear of them disconnecting and we just have to spend the next 5-10minutes finishing the game off against no one, since they are all hiding in their base. This isn't just sometimes either it's every.single.game I've played so far. maybe I'm just having the worst luck. Of course these points are not the games fault just the people I come across that play it, so valve unfortunately can't fix that.

    Its a good game but its also a frustrating experrience for me to switch over to this.

  20. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    oh btw I don't care your avarage pubs...They can not be reference because I don't know what kind of players you're playing with.
    I play with professional players from EG and coL on a daily basis. Even a few people from Na'vi queue US servers now and then. While they're still public games and PuGs, don't try to tell me which of the two of us is the better player.

    You watch the pros play, I play against them. That's all I'm seeing in this thread right now.

    A big necro can take almost any hero in a 1v1, with the exception of big carries with lifesteal. Mostly because he can, by himself, get most people down to ult range in the duration of one sheep with radiance/heartstopper also doing damage and spamming death pulse. He is not a bad hero, and he is not a bad carry. The drawback with him, which is why he isn't played much, is that he takes a lot of farm. It's not really possible in the current meta to give that much farm to an int hero with no initiate.

    It shouldn't be a surprise to you, however, that carries take a lot of farm, and that carries without farm aren't good.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-06-26 at 02:48 PM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


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