[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

they only way naix beats leoric is if he has basher. enough said

Or if he manages to dodge the stun with painfully slow cast animation and projectile with his instant rage.

1v1 is not the issue at hand though, the discussion is about what they offer to the team and how they fit in competitive lineups.

[LiiLoSNK]

Maybe you should do the re-reading. I didn't state that your statistics are low, I said they're of a ridiculously small sample size. The other thing you seem to not understanding is that Necrobooks don't actually stop SK like a brick wall, and neither does any other form of mana burn due to obvious reasons that have already been stated way too many times.


So are mine, and I could wager I've more experience than you do. Do you really think you're the only veteran player in here, that nobody else has over 5k rating, nobody else has played vs pros in pubs hundreds of times, nobody else used to watch and discuss tournament streams daily? To me it just seems like you're not making anything but opinion-based empty claims that you don't elaborate upon at all (e.g "SK doesn't do damage until late game") and expect someone to be impressed when you act like anyone who doesn't agree is a trashcan. I'll give you some advice, if you need to bring up anyone's personal MMR to win an argument you're being far less impressive than you think.

I'm not going to bother with this discussion any more until there starts being some actual discussion. In the meantime, everyone should probably bear in mind that elitism has no place here.

You're angry for no reason implying I said anything bad about your mmr. I don't see what's elitist about saying that if you played where I play, you'd find truth in what i'm saying. It's like saying that if you lived near my house, you'd see the same things I see every day. That's not elitism. It seems like a pretty simple fact that bothers you because you automatically think I'm calling you a bad player. But yea, Let's run SK comps because emp invoker and nyx aren't extremely popular at this time. Sounds like a very experienced idea.

[Deleted]

But yea, Let's run SK comps because emp invoker and nyx aren't extremely popular at this time. Sounds like a very experienced idea.

I don't think there's a single person in this thread advocating counterpicking yourself.

[Hermanni]

You're angry for no reason implying I said anything bad about your mmr. I don't see what's elitist about saying that if you played where I play, you'd find truth in what i'm saying..

Climb to 5k rating and tell me how many times SK helps win teamfights more than a naix.

I'm sorry what? It kind of sounds like you're contradicting yourself or making some pretty bold assumptions.

The fact that you need to mention your or anyone else's MMR means you're trying to out-elite the discussion. I'm not angry, It's just seems fairly apparent that you seem to think that your MMR is highest in this thread (hint: it isn't) and that automatically makes your opinion the truth. I know I'm better than you, I know there's better players than even me on this forum, but you don't see anyone else trying to dismiss others with "get 2 5k b4 u talk scrub."

I already warned you once and I'm not fond of repeating myself, but I'll still say it: Elitism has no place in this forum. If you can't think of an argument that isn't based on judging other posters as bad players you don't need to participate in the discussion.

[Longview]

they only way naix beats leoric is if he has basher. enough said

dotas not 1v1

I don't think there's a single person in this thread advocating counterpicking yourself.

how come y ou dont play dota anymore

[Drunkenvalley]

What's with the whole SK discussion? Especially when the entire discussion appears to be "necro wins vs him" or "nyx wins versus him", etc. I mean, this is Dota; if you're up against heroes that counter you heavily why the hell would you pick SK? That's just dumb to start with.

Nevermind that the mana-burn argument neglects that the same problem goes for most strength carries. And a lot of carries outright. What's Lifestealer going to do with 0 mana? All he's got left then is Feast, after all. It's a bloody joke to be having a conversation where manaburn = win vs Leoric, because the same argument is just easily extended to a huge portion of the hero pool from the start isn't it? People have always responded to that with Stick/Wand/Soul Ring/(Arcanes from team) etc if it's an actual problem.

All things considered, I don't see why Leoric shouldn't do just fine in sensible matches.

[Bonsaii]

Not sure where to leave this, but I heard it from my roommate.
I'll just put it right here....


A LoL player and a DoTA player walk into a bar.
The DoTA player says "League sucks!"
The LoL player couldn't deny.

[Jester Joe]

Not sure where to leave this, but I heard it from my roommate.
I'll just put it right here....


A LoL player and a DoTA player walk into a bar.
The DoTA player says "League sucks!"
The LoL player couldn't deny.

Also
Earth Spirit walks into a bar.
There was no counter.

suchbadjokes.

[Deleted]

What's with the whole SK discussion? Especially when the entire discussion appears to be "necro wins vs him" or "nyx wins versus him", etc. I mean, this is Dota; if you're up against heroes that counter you heavily why the hell would you pick SK? That's just dumb to start with.

Nevermind that the mana-burn argument neglects that the same problem goes for most strength carries. And a lot of carries outright. What's Lifestealer going to do with 0 mana? All he's got left then is Feast, after all. It's a bloody joke to be having a conversation where manaburn = win vs Leoric, because the same argument is just easily extended to a huge portion of the hero pool from the start isn't it? People have always responded to that with Stick/Wand/Soul Ring/(Arcanes from team) etc if it's an actual problem.

All things considered, I don't see why Leoric shouldn't do just fine in sensible matches.

In a pro game he wouldn't work, Necro book is the shit right now, easy to make him useless / force bkb right away.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry what? It kind of sounds like you're contradicting yourself or making some pretty bold assumptions.

The fact that you need to mention your or anyone else's MMR means you're trying to out-elite the discussion. I'm not angry, It's just seems fairly apparent that you seem to think that your MMR is highest in this thread (hint: it isn't) and that automatically makes your opinion the truth. I know I'm better than you, I know there's better players than even me on this forum, but you don't see anyone else trying to dismiss others with "get 2 5k b4 u talk scrub."

I already warned you once and I'm not fond of repeating myself, but I'll still say it: Elitism has no place in this forum. If you can't think of an argument that isn't based on judging other posters as bad players you don't need to participate in the discussion.

Mmmmkkkaaay

[Clrg]

One of the strongest heroes in raw stats in the game during lane phase with a great stun to boot, no more or less easy to kite than any other melee hero without movement skills in the game, no more or less mana hungry than any other strength hero in the game, enormous teamfight ability the second he hits level 6 and has two lives, the first of which will slow everyone to a crawl when it ends, can jungle and can also quite easily lane just about anywhere because of his huge bulk and damage between his stun and raw right click power, known for making kills well before ultimates show up in the first place, no more or less bad at farming than any other hero without cleave or AoE, same BAT as almost every other hero in the game.

CK ult is easy to deal with, it only lasts 20 seconds and then CK is awful, to the point where if enemy team has a Naga to blow song and just wait it out your team is screwed. Leoric's ultimate is only countered by him not having mana to use it, which is not going to be easy to pull off against any Leoric player with a brain, even if you get your nec3. You can counter CK with one button or two that he can't do anything about and the only way to counter Leoric is to do exactly what he wants - try to focus him down while foaming at the mouth over hurr durr mana burn so his team can set up on you and crush you in the meantime.

The only real argument against Leoric is that he isn't Luna. And yes, it's a shame that he isn't Luna, but you can ban her from the pool if you aren't first pick and don't want to lose.

What is that "enormous teamfight ability", "can jungle " any hero in the game can jungle, but is optimal? thats another question.

I'm not going to bother with this discussion any more until there starts being some actual discussion. In the meantime, everyone should probably bear in mind that elitism has no place here.

Im with you, there is no way we can have a discussion when people use slippery slopes, fallacies and subjective opinions and try to push it through your throat as facts.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Also
Earth Spirit walks into a bar.
There was no counter.

suchbadjokes.

Teehee...I get it ^_^

[Drunkenvalley]

In a pro game he wouldn't work, Necro book is the shit right now, easy to make him useless / force bkb right away.

...You didn't even read what you quoted, did you?

[Deleted]

...You didn't even read what you quoted, did you?

Yes and it still makes sense, dunno about you

[LiiLoSNK]

I don't think there's a single person in this thread advocating counterpicking yourself.

The point is the massive lack of leoric play might be due to the high amount of popular/easy counters. The majority of the people in here can't even fathom the disadvantage of Leoric being forced to spend 800g on a soul ring / 500 gold on a wand. "What's wrong with Leoric?! He just needs to spend 1300 gold to be able to survive till mid game and then another 3975 on bkb to be of any use at all. What's so bad about that??"

I'm sorry what? It kind of sounds like you're contradicting yourself or making some pretty bold assumptions.

The fact that you need to mention your or anyone else's MMR means you're trying to out-elite the discussion. I'm not angry, It's just seems fairly apparent that you seem to think that your MMR is highest in this thread (hint: it isn't) and that automatically makes your opinion the truth. I know I'm better than you, I know there's better players than even me on this forum, but you don't see anyone else trying to dismiss others with "get 2 5k b4 u talk scrub."

I already warned you once and I'm not fond of repeating myself, but I'll still say it: Elitism has no place in this forum. If you can't think of an argument that isn't based on judging other posters as bad players you don't need to participate in the discussion.

How dense are you? You are taking offense to things that have never even been said and getting insanely defensive for no reason. If people are talking about the use of leoric in competitive play and you can't see why someone would compare that competitive play to high level mmr play, then it's you who has the problem. Your insecurity is getting the better of you and you're taking different meaning from my posts. The only one being elitist right now is you and I feel sorry for you that you can't understand the relation between high mmr and competitive play.

[Scummer]

Mmmmkkkaaay

It really only becomes elitism when "I am better than you" turns into "I am better than you therefore........".

[Deleted]

It really only becomes elitism when "I am better than you" turns into "I am better than you therefore........".

Not really.

[Scummer]

Not really.

Yes really. Stating you are good is one thing and quite harmless (So long as you have the grounds to voice such a thing). It's when you apparently being better than somebody else means you see your opinion has inherently more valuable than somebody else's simply on the ground that you are better.

[LiiLoSNK]

Yes really. Stating you are good is one thing and quite harmless (So long as you have the grounds to voice such a thing). It's when you apparently being better than somebody else means you see your opinion has inherently more valuable than somebody else's simply on the ground that you are better.

Suggest that someone play a bunch of games at high MMR and relay how often Leoric is seen being successful = Elitism
"I know I'm better than you" = Not Elitism

The thread is just wreaking of misunderstandings from hilariously insecure people.

[Hermanni]

Suggest that someone play a bunch of games at high MMR and relay how often Leoric is seen being successful = Elitism
"I know I'm better than you" = Not Elitism

This is actually very correct. I don't disrespect anyone's opinion or argument because they might not be as good players as I am. That being said I don't hold anyone's opinion in any higher regard just because they might be better than me, and I expect that to be the case for everyone else. Me stating that I'm confident you're far from being the most legit player around here after reading too few actually good arguments and too many "based" remarks is just me helping you off the high horse so we can maybe have a real discussion. If you want some advice I'd recommend considering that you might just be seeing what you want to see and that one person's ranked adventures is still a fairly small sample size, and stop presuming you're ever going get under my skin in here.

Dick waving is the worst enemy of all gaming related discussion, that's the reason it's not okay. All unmoderated discussion is bound to turn into "you're wrong because you're a garbage player" whenever someone is about to be proven wrong. You can brag with MMR as much as you like and I can brag about being better than someone but neither of us should need to use it to "win" an argument. I personally don't really care one bit if people think Leo or N'aix is stronger, I almost never play either hero, only reason I posted in the first place was because this discussion was turning into the usual shit talk.

[Jester Joe]

Suggest that someone play a bunch of games at high MMR and relay how often Leoric is seen being successful = Elitism
"I know I'm better than you" = Not Elitism

The thread is just wreaking of misunderstandings from hilariously insecure people.

For the definition of Elitist I got-considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society.

Of course to apply it to a video game, it would be changed up a bit, but the general rule applies. Saying "I know I'm better than you" is a form of being Elitist. Same as saying "I do decent" when you're really great at something is being humble.
Although it seems like you were probably being sarcastic about what you said