1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    I'll never understand why people have such a hard-on for black holes when they're all bunched up. Were they expecting him to use it when they're not?
    Of course they are not expecting them to use it when they're not bunched up. But the fact that someone finds the enemy team all bunched up is very very rare in a competitive match because as a team you must be all time scattered in teamfights if there's an Enigma in the opposite team.

  2. #1282
    The Patient Meezo's Avatar
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    hi, HoN player here, i just tried DOTA 2, not bashing or anything just wanted to say what i felt the difference is,

    i felt the game play was allot slower, i get items much quicker than HoN, but hero movement, hero hits and so on, is allot slower, and the whole game pace is allot slower than HoN in general, thats the main thing that annoyed me, also Match making system, is so slow, i had to join MM pool 4 times for the game to start, and each time i had to wait an annoying 1-2 mins before i could join the pool again, but i guess this will be fixed later, but the main thing i could say is the game pace, other than that, its not a bad game at all, bit laggy sometimes tho, not sure if its from me, i dont lag in HoN games.

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alchemist and Tinker don't get free bots.
    Furion doesn't get free BoT either.

    Teleport is much, much better.
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  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbl View Post
    Of course they are not expecting them to use it when they're not bunched up. But the fact that someone finds the enemy team all bunched up is very very rare in a competitive match because as a team you must be all time scattered in teamfights if there's an Enigma in the opposite team.
    So basically, the enemy fucked up hard and that's an "awesome moment"?


    Quote Originally Posted by ButterflyJoe View Post
    Yeah thats why 1.6 is still most played Counter Strike game. Anyways, dont have time to waste more time here, stated my point, you can disagree, I don't care.
    Relative success =/= success.

  5. #1285
    Quote Originally Posted by Meezo View Post
    hi, HoN player here, i just tried DOTA 2, not bashing or anything just wanted to say what i felt the difference is,

    i felt the game play was allot slower, i get items much quicker than HoN, but hero movement, hero hits and so on, is allot slower, and the whole game pace is allot slower than HoN in general, thats the main thing that annoyed me, also Match making system, is so slow, i had to join MM pool 4 times for the game to start, and each time i had to wait an annoying 1-2 mins before i could join the pool again, but i guess this will be fixed later, but the main thing i could say is the game pace, other than that, its not a bad game at all, bit laggy sometimes tho, not sure if its from me, i dont lag in HoN games.
    there is a built-in input delay(atleast this is what people say) maybe that's what make you feel like lagging. Que times are really good for a game in beta. Finally, you will get used the pace of the game in 1 month or so. Keep playing.

  6. #1286
    Is there variant turn speed and casting delay in HoN? I know in LoL heroes turn instantly and very few spells have cast delays, which is largely the reason LoL players think DotA feels slower.
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  7. #1287
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Eh, I don't think furion is that bad.

    The reason a lot of people ban him in competitive play is because he's bad for their specific team

  8. #1288
    Stood in the Fire MrDeadcruel's Avatar
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    Quoting ButterflyJoe
    Dota 2 doesnt need new things im a veteran player and i would rather get all heroes then new maps and stuff which would ruin the balance so i disagree with your post but i agree about CS 1.6 being most popular to date , every pro player i know here isnt going to play / nor they like cs:go, and yeah CS:Source was complete shit actually.

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  9. #1289
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alchemist and Tinker don't get free bots. That 2500 gold they spent on boots can be spent by Furion on other, more useful items, and Tinker's push requires him to be present. Once trees are sumoned, Furion can basically leave the lane and push another lane. You won't push all the way to a rax with just one round of trees, but they'll obviously give your creeps a huge edge. It's basically a guaranteed tower unless the other team sends someone to stop it.

    And his ult is just plain OP in the midgame if it's used right. It's ridiculous to see pro games where Furion zaps someone for half their health without the kind of setup AA ulti and similar global ults take.
    The thing is, is that the amount of money you can get from killing JUST his trees is close to a TP scroll. Even more as Alchy. And Tinker should ALWAYS get BoT anyway, as it allows him to be one of the best pushers in the game. Tele top, march of machines, rearm, tele bot, march of machines, etc. I've played with a buddy multiple times who does that all game, gets insane last hits, and speeds for a sheep stick and mana regen and shuts down hero fights. The only thing I think makes Furion OP is the fact that you can't see over his tree prison anymore, so he gets a couple seconds where you can't fight back, even if ranged.

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Is there variant turn speed and casting delay in HoN? I know in LoL heroes turn instantly and very few spells have cast delays, which is largely the reason LoL players think DotA feels slower.
    The turn speeds and casting delays were there but they were faster than in Dota and only few heroes had really slow animations, e.g. HoN's Leshrac equivalents stun had much shorter delay and Lina had much better attack animation. Also Dota 2 has that small input delay that doesn't exist in HoN because afaik HoN doesn't wait for the server to verify anything. On the other hand HoN sometimes glitched or warped slightly.

    Also, that "built-in delay" comes from the time it takes for servers to 'tick', the server frequency being 20Hz or something means you get an additional ~25 or so ms. Not 100% on what the frequency and average delay was, all I remember is that the frequency used to be half what it is now and a lot of people complained about it in early beta and in response they doubled their server frequency and most people were happy.

    Almost all HoN players I know that switched complained about how Dota 2 felt different but eventually got used to it. And one reason HoN probably felt faster was because of the more zoomed-in camera. Not entirely sure if the image is accurate, but HoN is still slightly more zoomed-in.



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  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    The thing is, is that the amount of money you can get from killing JUST his trees is close to a TP scroll. Even more as Alchy. And Tinker should ALWAYS get BoT anyway, as it allows him to be one of the best pushers in the game. Tele top, march of machines, rearm, tele bot, march of machines, etc. I've played with a buddy multiple times who does that all game, gets insane last hits, and speeds for a sheep stick and mana regen and shuts down hero fights. The only thing I think makes Furion OP is the fact that you can't see over his tree prison anymore, so he gets a couple seconds where you can't fight back, even if ranged.
    A good furion turns any fair fight unfair instantly just by being in the game. Early game is filled with skirmishes that are usually 2v2, 3v3 at worst. Suddenly that's 2v3 and 3v4. Let's not forget that his ult can and will actually hit pretty damn hard early/mid game if he uses it properly.

    That said, a bad furion is just a huge feeder, pushes out all the lanes so no one on his team can farm, spends his 400 CS on desolator/buriza/MKB and dies to a Lina ult because he still has 1100 health at level 18.
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  12. #1292
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    A good furion turns any fair fight unfair instantly just by being in the game. Early game is filled with skirmishes that are usually 2v2, 3v3 at worst. Suddenly that's 2v3 and 3v4. Let's not forget that his ult can and will actually hit pretty damn hard early/mid game if he uses it properly.

    That said, a bad furion is just a huge feeder, pushes out all the lanes so no one on his team can farm, spends his 400 CS on desolator/buriza/MKB and dies to a Lina ult because he still has 1100 health at level 18.
    He has his drawbacks which is why I can't say he's anywhere near OP. Since his HP sucks, he has no stuns, snares or slows (His trees can be worked around easily) and he doesn't do any real up-front damage in a team fight until he farms.

    He dies so horribly at times it isn't even funny

  13. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    Eh, I don't think furion is that bad.

    The reason a lot of people ban him in competitive play is because he's bad for their specific team
    Having a hero that can be anywhere, anytime and can zap people for half their health from across the map is bad for any team. He's strongest during the midgame. He falls off in late game if he didn't get some farm in for tanky/support items (Force Staff, sheepstick, etc), only idiots build him as a carry. I've seen Maelstrom/Mjolnir do well on him but I still think he's better built as a sort of support - being able to teleport in to be there at any fight with your sheepstick/force staff is so powerful it can't be described.
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  14. #1294
    He can also abandon a losing team fight to go push rax instead, forcing the enemy team to defend instead of destroy your base when they have your team dead. Even tinker doesn't have treants or the ability to teleport anywhere.
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  15. #1295
    Brewmaster
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    One of my favorite heroes is Veno and he loves prophet ulti

  16. #1296
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    He can also abandon a losing team fight to go push rax instead, forcing the enemy team to defend instead of destroy your base when they have your team dead. Even tinker doesn't have treants or the ability to teleport anywhere.
    Yup, Tinker still requires a creep wave to push. Furion can port in, sprout, and make trees from the sprout to have a small push anywhere. He's not going to push down a tower with just trees alone, but he's gonna do enough damage that the creep waves that are coming can probably finish the job and it'll require a response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
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  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeadcruel View Post
    Quoting ButterflyJoe
    Dota 2 doesnt need new things im a veteran player and i would rather get all heroes then new maps and stuff which would ruin the balance so i disagree with your post but i agree about CS 1.6 being most popular to date , every pro player i know here isnt going to play / nor they like cs:go, and yeah CS:Source was complete shit actually.
    DotA 2 does need new things. You want competitve play? You've already got it(legacy map and legacy heroes). I want new maps, new game modes and new heroes. I think I read an article about new modes in DotA 2 one of them was free-for-all'ish mode which requires a new map I guess.

  18. #1298
    Brewmaster
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    Only map I would ever like to see in competitive play is a mirrored version of the current map.

  19. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    He has his drawbacks which is why I can't say he's anywhere near OP. Since his HP sucks, he has no stuns, snares or slows (His trees can be worked around easily) and he doesn't do any real up-front damage in a team fight until he farms.

    He dies so horribly at times it isn't even funny
    the most funny and amateur reasons for a hero to not be OP

    no slow, no stun, his hp sucks...

    his teleport makes HUUUGE difference and you can't do anything to stop him = OP but not like he's ultra OP.

  20. #1300
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    the most funny and amateur reasons for a hero to not be OP

    no slow, no stun, his hp sucks...

    his teleport makes HUUUGE difference and you can't do anything to stop him = OP but not like he's ultra OP.
    Oh thank you master, I was just pointing out that he's largely useless in a teamfight scenario so if you have any global based abilities to deal with his pushing such as Ice Blast, Clockwork Missile, Spectre or Wisp he's gonna have a hard time pushing on his own.

    I consider a hero OP if there's no conceivable way to deal with him.
    Last edited by Azalu; 2012-07-01 at 01:29 PM.

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