1. #1381
    sorry but CM>all

  2. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    LevelDeath is a crap skill to begin with, don't bother with it. Just Devour/stats until 6, finish Devour and pick up your W on the way to 11, finish your W, and just keep pumping stats. LevelDeath's never worth the mana, not when you can eat a creep and use that mana for much better skills (warstomp, mana burn, net, etc), and in the early and midgame you won't have the mana to Doom, use creep skills, cast LevelDeath, AND keep Devour on cooldown.
    level death is not a crap skill. I generaly give it two times before lvl 5 and you will guarantee a kill with someone in your team. I think ranged heroes are harder for new players. I always suggest my friends to pick melees and mostly STR heroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Where would you lane a Tiny? Solo mid or trilane bot? Seem to remember him primarily being a ganker in the early stages of the game since he has a stun and a well-placed throw is an easy kill. Also fun to grief jackasses by throwing them into enemy towers.
    I should play Tiny more.
    middle, long lane but tiny is a hard-to-lane hero. If you're against an experienced player, you will have hard times gaining your early levels and items.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-04 at 10:58 AM.

  3. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    It's using the ult that's the problem. Short radius means everyone has to be close together for it to stick on everyone, which puts you in a wonderful spot to have your entire team eat a Ravage or Black Hole or Chronosphere or Epicenter or Echo Slam or... And if you avoid that, someone's gonna miss the ult and they'll just bury them while the rest of you stand around looking bored. Unlike ES, Omni can't hide in a line of trees and throw out ninja heals - range on the heals is too short unless you can get someone to be dumb and stand right next to the damn trees for you so you can nuke them.
    I find it funny you mention Black Hole and Echo Slam considering it's possible for all the members of your team to stand in range of gangel but for only one to be hit by those spells. Yes, AoE ultis are powerful and that's exactly why you don't charge into a fight headfirst and pop gangel the second it starts if your enemy is just going to Ravage/Epicenter you.

  4. #1384
    Pit Lord Kuthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    level death is not a crap skill. I generaly give it two times before lvl 5 and you will guarantee a kill with your someone in your team. I think ranged heroes are harder for new players. I always suggest my friends to pick melees and mostly STR heroes.
    Agree with on both.
    LevelDeath?? is a great skill if used right, at low levels.

    And you be right about getting newbies to play STR Melee heroes. That's how I learnt, and it's how I taught all my friends.
    But then they watch you play Carries and think they can do the same, and think they still are armoured up and have enough HP to survive, and fail miserably. Atleast people get better over time.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

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  5. #1385
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Best heroes for new players are Tidehunter, Skeleton King, Ogre Mage, Venge, Bloodseeker, Sven, Papa Mags(Magnataur), Centaur Warchief, and Abaddon. Last two aren't in the game yet, though, sadly.
    But yes, mainly strength heroes with a couple passives or easily aimed skills and heavy defensive capabilities.
    Started a WoW guildie of mine on DotA 2 and he's gotten the hang of playing through Tidehunter.
    I actually disagree that Doom is a good starting hero. He is a squishy STR hero because of his lack of armor at the beginning of the game and planning LVL death levels can be tricky.
    Gotta agree with what you're saying about Doom. Doom is not an easy hero, hes a typical snowballing hero, and new players shouldn't play snowballing heroes, Doom usually goes mid and requires alot of farm and early levels, without that, the hero is basically kinda trash. Bristleback on the other hand is also an easy hero, of course the hero needs farm, but just with a vanguard he can be really annyoing, i would recommend him when he gets ported.

  6. #1386
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    Agree with on both.
    LevelDeath?? is a great skill if used right, at low levels.

    And you be right about getting newbies to play STR Melee heroes. That's how I learnt, and it's how I taught all my friends.
    But then they watch you play Carries and think they can do the same, and think they still are armoured up and have enough HP to survive, and fail miserably. Atleast people get better over time.
    You're better off using the mana on creep abilities. LevelDeath isn't worth casting unless you need the microstun or they're the appropriate level and even with his great INT growth, Doomy does not have the mana to keep Devour on cooldown AND try and harass/kill people with LevelDeath... he barely has enough to mana burn enemies and keep Devour on cooldown as it is, and once you get past 6, you need to always have mana for a Doom (since Doom is 95% of why you pick Doomy in the first place), and have mana for creep abilities, and have mana for Scorched Earth, AND still keep Devour on cooldown since Doomy is one of the most farm-dependent heroes in the game and Devour's how he gets it.

    That's a lot of strain on Doomy's rather small mana pool, even though LevelDeath is fairly cheap. And it's also rather low on the damage spectrum relative to mana cost if it's not getting the damage boost. 525 is practically a guaranteed kill in the early phases of the game, but you're skipping needed stats and Devour levels in order to get it fast enough for it to matter, and you still have to get to that lvl 3 multiplier before everyone else hits level 7 - meaning you need to hit level 7 before everyone else AND be willing to sacrifice farm in the form of Devour levels in order to get it. You can try again when everyone's at level 9, but by time everyone hits level 12, they should have enough HP to be able to soak a hit and still be able to fight.

    I just don't think it's worth a crucial four skill points that early in the game when you need to be focusing on farming. Doomy is a carry, and he needs a lot of farm because of it. I eat a satyr at Devour level 2 and use Mana Burn to shut down enemy heroes in the lane.

    If you want to go for fast kills, eat a Satyr Trickster at Devour level 1 and use his Purge. The only reason you should ever get an early rank of LevelDeath is if your team absolutely must have the microstun to interrupt something like Black Hole or Freezing Field... and in those cases, Doom does the same thing and also practically guarantees a kill.
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  7. #1387
    you can level both LVL? and devour at the same time. I'm having hard times to see the point of not giving points into LVL? You don't need to lvl it all the time, just give it two points before 5. level 2 LVL? can deal 400 or so damage(almost full exort sun strike and guess what target lock spell unlike ss)

    example:

    1 - devour
    2 - lvl
    3 - devour
    4 - lvl
    5 - devour

    it's matter of choice and depends on enemy lane setup but straightly saying it's useless is stupid.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-04 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #1388
    or just buy a bottle?
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-07-04 at 03:36 PM.

  9. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    Any guesses on this weeks hero?
    I want Nyx Assassin!
    'NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo...'

    Not the mana burn! Please! Stop the torture!

  10. #1390
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    'NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo...'

    Not the mana burn! Please! Stop the torture!
    No! Bring him back! Bring him back! Too much fun with Nerubian Assassin and Dagon, especially pre-nerf. xD

    But I honestly think Dirge.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-07-04 at 03:41 PM.

  11. #1391

  12. #1392
    I don't know this hero...is it added after 6.72f? It kinda looks like nerubian assassin but that's Nerubian Assasin not Nyx

  13. #1393
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I don't know this hero...is it added after 6.72f? It kinda looks like nerubian assassin but that's Nerubian Assasin not Nyx
    It's Nerubian Assassin, Valve just don't dare or have the copyright to use Nerubian, therefore Nyx.

    Also idk what is up with the last 2 pages, I'll outsupport y'all with CM.



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  14. #1394
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    or just buy a bottle?
    Doomy isn't a good bottle hero... he has no way of easily contesting the runes, even if he gets mid (he usually gets solo safe lane because he's so easy to harass out of a lane before he starts farming.)

    The reason I say you skip lvldeath is because you need that mana for creep abilities, which are a lot more powerful and a lot easier to use. Lvldeath is somewhat underbudgeted if you aren't using it on someone of the correct level, while creep abilities are always good. Doomy has fast movement speed and once you get Phase Boots, you're guaranteed to and centaur stuns. Troll net can guarantee a kill by rooting the target, and skeletons assist with pushing. If you want early kills, you can eat a satyr trickster right at level and get Purge. If you want to make your lane easier, eat a soulcaller at lvl 3 Devour and start spamming Mana Burn. Once you start getting farm, eat an Alpha Wolf for a free Crystalys and never really look back.

    There are a lot of other really nice auras... kobold movespeed aura, max level satyr regen aura, wildkin armor aura, centaur attack speed aura, and I think there's a creep that has a 2 mp/sec mana aura, too. You can also eat a ghost at level 1 for an autoslow on your attack. Eating an ogre mage gives you Frost Armor for your team.

    There's a lot of things Doomy can do, and they all require mana. You can't use those abilities AND lvldeath AND devour AND doom all at once without a ton of farm, which is why I don't get lvldeath in the early game. If you aren't keeping Devour on cooldown the entire game... you're doin it wrong. Devour is a guaranteed 75 gold/min at lvl 4 (not counting creep bounty, which would be more like, what, 90-100 gold/min?) That's pretty significant and he's balanced around having that extra gold/min to be able to compete.

    I usually build Doomy like...

    - Leave base with Ring of Protection and consumables.

    - Wait for creeps to spawn and go eat a ghost or trickster or gnoll assassin when the opportunity presents itself. Tricksters are more useful, but anything is better than nothing.

    - Finish Ring of Basilius. Buy Helm of Iron Will. This gives you a little mana regen, a lot of armor, and some HP regen. You should be able to lane/jungle pretty much indefinitely independent of skills now.

    - Get your boots. Finish Armlet. By time you're about to finish armlet, you should be hunting for an alpha wolf to eat. I like to finish INT Power Treads next. Buy Mask of Madness. You're now pretty much guaranteed to kill anyone you encounter and in team fights, just hold the MoM until it's safe to use. Assuming you have an alpha wolf, you crit for 2x frequently, treads gives you moderately good attack speed, armlet gives you a pile of health and damage, and MoM can be used to pretty much splatter someone all over the dirt. This "core" is also very cheap and with Doomy's good farming potential you should get it pretty fast.

    - Build to counter. BKB is usually a good idea against most teams. If they have a hard carry, Doomy's suprisingly good with Heaven's Halberd. Provides more STR, an automatic snare, and the disarm effectively removes the enemy carry from the fight for 3/4 seconds. Finishing Vlad's is also usually a good idea - combined with MoM you've got a bunch of lifesteal for those crits and high damage and it's a great item if your teammates benefit from it. I usually just focus on items that will benefit the team more than just me at this point... Doomy's not really a hard carry like PA or AM, so I don't build him like one. Your job is to run in and Doom someone and start punching people. With ~3k HP, decent armor, and potentially evasion, you can be really hard to kill on top of your lifesteal and regen.


    I always go Devour/Stats/Devour/Stats/Devour/Doom/Devour. You can get LevelDeath starting at level 8, but I usually find Scorched Earth is more useful since it pretty much counters the negative regen on an activated armlet and makes you impossible to chase down/escape from. Again, my early game with Doomy is focused on farming and staying in lane as long as possible. If my teammates need me to gank or they're coming to gank, I can simply Purge the person we're gonna kill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  15. #1395

  16. #1396
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Stuff
    I've never had a bad game as omni. I mean, you can hate him all you want, that's okay. It doesn't make him not an amazing hero. His spells have the same range of any other support but they do a hell of a lot more. I think you just need to get a better of feel of what omni is all about.

    Morphling is absolutely a caster carry.

    int>agility>strength in terms of difficulty. Strength heroes might be easier to *play*, but they are the hardest to maximize. Int heroes don't need farm to do their jobs, this makes them by far the easiest to learn. Agility heroes might need farm, but they don't need as much (AM with as little as manta can start destroying everything) and it's easy for them to get it. Strength heroes in general have to balance farming and ganking with team fights in a way that puts them ahead. They're absolutely the scariest class of hero if played well, but they're also the easiest to shut down.

    As primarily a strength player myself, if you want to teach a new friend the ropes, send him toward int heroes like Lich.



    Don't ever put skill points into lvl?death, you don't have the time or the mana to be casting it on people. Doom is a right click carry once he eats an alpha wolf, build him that way. I agree that armlet/MoM is pretty core on him. MoM+SE gets you close to max movespeed, I throw in SY to finish it off. You can also get both skadi and lifesteal so that's an easy way to make sure no one ever gets away from you.

    Can't wait for loads of feeder Dirge's.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-07-04 at 07:46 PM.
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  17. #1397
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Finally got around to playing a game as WR today and holy shit I can see why she's in so many pro games. Definitely the best generic carry, doesn't require creeps like Chen/Enchantress do (which means if you ward camps to deny them they're hurting), she's fantastic in lane, hard to kill... and killing people with a well timed Powershot is right up there with killing people with Clockwerk rockets.

    The only point I could see getting an early lvldeath is at lvl 4. This gives you the bonus damage on lvl 6 and lvl 12 heroes (it'll be pointless vs lvl 18 and lvl 24 relative to HP pools) for a total of 375 damage for 110 mana - that's actually pretty good, more damage than a maxed, channeled Powershot. The problem is that Dooming a level 6 hero does more damage, locks them out of all spells and items, and it's part of the regular skill build. I just prefer spamming Mana Burn or Purge than wasting points on leveldeath unless I really need that microstun for something.

    Mana Burn makes laning so much easier against almost everyone.

    Planning on queuing with a buddy tonight in allpick. We're gonna run Lich/Viper or Veno/Viper and just make people hate their lives. It's gonna be grand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    MMOC IRC!

  18. #1398
    The Patient Igloo's Avatar
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    Dirge looks freaking awesome.

  19. #1399
    Oh, yes, one point in lvl?death is useful for the stun against people with channels (a good choice against furion ex.).
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  20. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    The only point I could see getting an early lvldeath is at lvl 4. This gives you the bonus damage on lvl 6 and lvl 12 heroes (it'll be pointless vs lvl 18 and lvl 24 relative to HP pools) for a total of 375 damage for 110 mana - that's actually pretty good, more damage than a maxed, channeled Powershot. The problem is that Dooming a level 6 hero does more damage, locks them out of all spells and items, and it's part of the regular skill build. I just prefer spamming Mana Burn or Purge than wasting points on leveldeath unless I really need that microstun for something.
    How you play is up to you. It's your choice but that doesn't MAKE anything fact or true. You're claiming LVL? death is useless with walls of texts but I can give you few examples where giving points in death is more beneficial such as syncing. LVL? with your enemie's level. This gives you a great chance to nuke him/her at lvl 5 with giving two points in LVL?. I mean everytime I play with doom, I kill some1 at level 5 it's just huge damage.

    Most dota players fallow a patterns, builds etc., good dota players never use patterns and always decide according to game's need. The most stupid(no offense) idea in dota(with few exceptions) that saying "that spell is useless". As far as my experience says, every spell has some use.

    I'm out of doom discussion.

    oh btw try tiny + centaur lane when centaur come out or tiny + alchemist just for the lulz.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-04 at 10:59 PM.

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