1. #1441
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I get games like this all the time.

    I have literally hundreds of examples of this, go through my history and look at virtually any of my losses, I'll have 2/3 teammates who average somewhere around 2-10. I guess it must be me, though.

    But yeah, matchmaking is really, really bad in DotA2, in my opinion. That's why I stopped caring and started doing things like jungle omni purification/stats.
    Errr, who are you there lol?

    You're not one of those people that use japanese characters in their name are you =)

    It's making me feel like going back to SC2 1v1 and trying to get into masters league

  2. #1442
    Oh, I'm Starling.

    And to be fair, I knew Chambz was bad, he's one of my friends, but I would hope that his bad MMR would offset my good MMR and we'd get semi average allies. Sniper wasn't present for a single team fight and furion died half a second in...pretty frustrating.
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  3. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Oh, I'm Starling.

    And to be fair, I knew Chambz was bad, he's one of my friends, but I would hope that his bad MMR would offset my good MMR and we'd get semi average allies. Sniper wasn't present for a single team fight and furion died half a second in...pretty frustrating.
    Yeah i'm hesitant to pick hard carries atm. My laning phase lately has been...... 5v2 horrifically bad. I think they're sniffing out that i'm the problem in the team.

  4. #1444
    I always random. Though I think I picked CK - I probably randomed Chen or something and repicked. Don't log on DotA2 to play boring heroes >_>

    Also, there's a pretty common mentality that you feed off the bad players and then use that advantage to crush the good players. If you win bot and lose mid and top, fully expect 3-5 man ganks bot repeatedly until you're doing just as bad as the rest of your team. Alternatively, people will just use the advantage to team push. Lost to a game of 4 carries yesterday, they raxed at 18 minutes. Team of carries, raxed at 18 minutes....yeah, you won't see that again in a long time.
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  5. #1445
    Over 9000! PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    PizzaSHARK I admire you...I wouldn't be arsed to write such wall of texts but please don't forgot to add tl:dr at the end all the time :>(kidding I do read them)


    dat Treant btw...Casual relic + reaver????
    Yeah I'm not sure what Tree was going for. I guess he was gonna get Radiance then decided it was too late to get it so he should make a Heart to stay alive.
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  6. #1446
    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    Just getting depressed now. Lost like 8 games in a row, just doesn't seem to matter how good I play we still seem to lose in the end.

    Feels like it's purposely stacking the teams against me
    There is even a worse situation than just losing. I pick support sometimes if there is no support in our team. If someone feeds enemy, he/she starts one or two shot support(me) and I end up like 2-7,8 and I became the feeder in my team's eyes. This is really makes me nerdrage and happens almost every time when I pick support. Now I stoped picking supports. Playerbase is too dumbshit to support.

    To be fairly honest, the frag says very little. I've seen many games where we lost only because we had a passive mid ganker where enemy mid was roaming all around the map.

    About Russians, they're not playing in their servers. They persist on playing EU.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-07 at 10:07 AM.

  7. #1447
    KDA on supports doesn't mean a whole lot. As you see in my screenshot, enemy team has 1-5 dazzle, 6-9 rubick, 5-8 undying. It's the 2-12 furion you have to look at, his awesome item choices, and the same for Lion who managed to save up 2200g and decided to spend it on BoTs which help him not at all against open wounds or 500 movespeed invoker...

    KDA on carries matters. Even if your team is doing poorly you will do your job as a carry better afking in the base than dying. Losing your lane, go somewhere else or the jungle, every carry should know this. To go 0-5 as juggernaut in the first 10 minutes of the game is just unacceptable in any game, really, doesn't matter how the rest of your team is doing.

    My opinions anyway. You could also argue that kills on supports are very bad and almost guaranteed to be killsteals from carries in most situations.
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  8. #1448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    My opinions anyway. You could also argue that kills on supports are very bad and almost guaranteed to be killsteals from carries in most situations.
    This has been argued to death. It does not matter. More kills on support means less farm on lanes means more farm for carrys. Underfarmed supports will make you lose as many team fights as underfarmed carrys or even more.

  9. #1449
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    Mirana's annoying. Slow projectile speed, she doesn't have the mana to do much of anything for the first 2/3 of the game, and squishy. Dunno why anyone would pick her of a lot of other ranged carries. Her ulti's pretty fantastic (if she can afford to cast it!), but she just seems kinda poopy compared to other ranged carries.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-07 at 07:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    This has been argued to death. It does not matter. More kills on support means less farm on lanes means more farm for carrys. Underfarmed supports will make you lose as many team fights as underfarmed carrys or even more.
    Ideally every kill a support has would be an assist. Supports don't usually require expensive items, so as long as they're getting assists along with a window here and there to get some CS, they'll be fine.

    A lot of games I have less than 5 kills and more than 15 assists and never had income problems.

    Heh, had a 1/8/6 game as Krob. Too bad it didn't show that I pushed down 5 towers and ate 2 rax solo
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  10. #1450
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Ideally every kill a support has would be an assist. Supports don't usually require expensive items, so as long as they're getting assists along with a window here and there to get some CS, they'll be fine.

    A lot of games I have less than 5 kills and more than 15 assists and never had income problems.

    Heh, had a 1/8/6 game as Krob. Too bad it didn't show that I pushed down 5 towers and ate 2 rax solo
    Ofcourse, but to call every kill a support get a killsteal and that its very bad for supports to get kills is over the top.

  11. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    Ofcourse, but to call every kill a support get a killsteal and that its very bad for supports to get kills is over the top.
    I don't really see it that way. In a perfect game a support would never get a kill because they ARE stealing a kill from a carry. It happens because it's better for them to die than for them to escape regardless of who kills them, but in a perfect game... you'd never get any kills as support.
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  12. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I don't really see it that way. In a perfect game a support would never get a kill because they ARE stealing a kill from a carry. It happens because it's better for them to die than for them to escape regardless of who kills them, but in a perfect game... you'd never get any kills as support.
    In a perfect game. If you reply to my post you should read the one Im quoting aswell or it just doesnt make sense. There was no talk about perfect game. Just that suport kills almost guaranteed to be killsteals from carries in most situations and I said that those cases doesnt matter if the big picture so its an over the top statement.

  13. #1453
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I don't really see it that way. In a perfect game a support would never get a kill because they ARE stealing a kill from a carry. It happens because it's better for them to die than for them to escape regardless of who kills them, but in a perfect game... you'd never get any kills as support.
    In a perfect game, stealing kills doesn't matter because a carry is already farmed and shouldn't rely on more gold at that point. Most of the time carries are not in team fights until min 25 unless they're feeded(which can't happen in a perfect game) so there is no carry to steal kills. I believe kill steal has no effect on game result. I actually dare to say there is no KS in dota .It's a term made up by noobs. As long as you get the gold and xp from kill, it's totally fine and pure win. Besides, All supports in game have potential to dominate early game.

    I don't know if you played LoL but the support philosophy you are explaining belongs to LoL.


    ah and Mirana is not annoying, you just need a bottle. She can be semi-carry at best. Her role is more of roaming all around and ganking with her arrow. If you got hit over 3 seconds in a gank situation you're most likely dead.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-07 at 04:22 PM.

  14. #1454
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    ... It's the 2-12 furion you have to look at, his awesome item choices...
    Hah! Indeed. I have never been fond of hand of midas on Furion, as I'd argue he gets more than enough farm even without that item, but what I really can't stand is people playing Furion and getting Aghanim's ('specially early on).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    This has been argued to death. It does not matter. More kills on support means less farm on lanes means more farm for carrys. Underfarmed supports will make you lose as many team fights as underfarmed carrys or even more.
    Well, I'd still argue that - ideally - if there is a carry (from your team) involved in the gank, and if he's able to get the kill, try and let him get the kill at least 90% of the time. Recently I've lost a game with enigma because my black hole damage ticks took most of the kills early on. Therefore our carries didn't get fed and lacked dps during teamfights endgame. I generally become angry with myself in situations like these. (i.e. when I get too many last hits on enemy heroes as a support)

  15. #1455
    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    Well, I'd still argue that - ideally - if there is a carry (from your team) involved in the gank, and if he's able to get the kill, try and let him get the kill at least 90% of the time. Recently I've lost a game with enigma because my black hole damage ticks took most of the kills early on. Therefore our carries didn't get fed and lacked dps during teamfights endgame. I generally become angry with myself in situations like these. (i.e. when I get too many last hits on enemy heroes as a support)
    this can't be a reason for lost. You lost because your carry couldn't farm. Carries' farm do not rely on early kills...

    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    Hah! Indeed. I have never been fond of hand of midas on Furion, as I'd argue he gets more than enough farm even without that item, but what I really can't stand is people playing Furion and getting Aghanim's ('specially early on).
    I do get hand of midas Asap to furion and aganim scepter if our burst damage is enough in team, mjolnir otherwise or even sheepstick if needed. Early aganim on furion will do wonders if ulti is used properly.

    but I do doubt your knowledge about DotA especially after your brilliant analysis about the reason behind the lost.

    "we lost because my blackhole get last hits" really?

    but not because your stupid carry tried to gank instead of some solid farm?
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-07-07 at 06:50 PM.

  16. #1456
    Quote Originally Posted by eemuman View Post
    Finally Russians got their own server!
    Really?? PRAISED BE THE GODS!!! I really hadn't noticed this...No offense to any russian mmo-champs in here, but I really got sick of my EU server getting flooded by russians. Seriously, say goodbye to team communication if you get a russian in your team :/

  17. #1457
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    This has been argued to death. It does not matter. More kills on support means less farm on lanes means more farm for carrys. Underfarmed supports will make you lose as many team fights as underfarmed carrys or even more.
    Conjecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I actually dare to say there is no KS in dota .It's a term made up by noobs. As long as you get the gold and xp from kill, it's totally fine and pure win.
    Incorrect. An 8-1 CM is awful cute but it would be far better for those 8 kills to go to your carry and his 5 deaths to have been yours. I realize realistically it's not always possible to secure a kill enough to guarantee you can let the carry get it, but that wasn't really the point. I don't typically see high positive scores from supports in "pro games."
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I do get hand of midas Asap to furion and aganim scepter if our burst damage is enough in team, mjolnir otherwise or even sheepstick if needed. Early aganim on furion will do wonders if ulti is used properly.
    The desolator is the item I had a problem with. I don't know why every public furion player thinks it's the best item ever. It's pretty common to see a furion farm up 20k gold worth of items, but have spent it on desolator/buriza/MKB and have about 1100 health. They die half a second into the team fight and then complain that their team sucks when a sheeper would have not only kept them alive but done a hell of a lot more.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-07-07 at 09:45 PM.
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  18. #1458
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    About Russians, they're not playing in their servers. They persist on playing EU.
    Yeah, I was in a game yesterday with 8 other russians. Me and my mate were the only english speakers. For a second I thought I had the russian servers ticked by mistake but neither of us had. We were just stuck in a game with 8 people who didn't speak a word of english.

    One of them was typing in colour as well which i'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be able to do

    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Really?? PRAISED BE THE GODS!!! I really hadn't noticed this...No offense to any russian mmo-champs in here, but I really got sick of my EU server getting flooded by russians. Seriously, say goodbye to team communication if you get a russian in your team :/
    Errr don't be so happy cause they're playing on EU servers still for some reason even though they can't communicate with anyone. I had US East in my search so when I play later I get some US games and i'm getting much better games out of it.

    After making friends with one american I might just start playing US East exclusively. Russians really are getting to me that badly
    Last edited by Azalu; 2012-07-07 at 09:49 PM.

  19. #1459
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    The new russian server is based in Stockholm, Sweden and the game keeps forcing me into Russian chat when I log in. The joy.

  20. #1460
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    The desolator is the item I had a problem with. I don't know why every public furion player thinks it's the best item ever. It's pretty common to see a furion farm up 20k gold worth of items, but have spent it on desolator/buriza/MKB and have about 1100 health. They die half a second into the team fight and then complain that their team sucks when a sheeper would have not only kept them alive but done a hell of a lot more.
    It's usually the best one of the bunch if your team doesn't have one, but I agree with everything else. Aghanim's is situational, it works if enemies have low health and neglect to get enough regeneration, then you can often stop or delay a push with your ulti alone. I encountered a nice example of a Furion I wouldn't want in my team in a game tonight. The resident pro of the enemy team went to jungle for 24 minutes straight, spamming ultimate off cooldown while their Spectre couldn't do anything on their lane. Later Furion embarrasses himself by raging at the Spectre who afk farmed jungle trying to recover from the early game. Also carried by an awfully played Mirana.

    screenshot
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-07-07 at 10:17 PM.
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