1. #1461
    deso works on buildings

  2. #1462
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It's usually the best one of the bunch if your team doesn't have one, but I agree with everything else. Aghanim's is situational, it works if enemies have low health and neglect to get enough regeneration, then you can often stop or delay a push with your ulti alone. I encountered a nice example of a Furion I wouldn't want in my team in a game tonight. The resident pro of the enemy team went to jungle for 24 minutes straight, spamming ultimate off cooldown while their Spectre couldn't do anything on their lane. Later Furion embarrasses himself by raging at the Spectre who afk farmed jungle trying to recover from the early game. Also carried by an awfully played Mirana.

    screenshot
    The gold difference in that game....lol

    Anyway, the point about desolator isn't that it's a bad item, it's that it's a bad item for furion. That 4k gold is the larger part of guinsoos which is way more helpful in a team fight. If you're looking to do damage and stay alive, lothar's is better. If you're looking to support your team and really thought a -6 armor orb was the best bet, 1k gold is medallion and the other 3k gold can go to mek or vlads or pipe or any number of other items that are better for supporting and will keep you alive. Desolator is JUST DAMAGE, that's it, and furion is way too easily killed to be stacking nothing but DPS. He's no Rikimaru, and even SA has to get BKB to survive in a "real game."

    You do the typical pub furion thing and go midas > desolator > buriza, lina ults you and you're out of the team fight. And that's 10k gold your team could've used. I find furion absurdly OP if he builds real items like guinsoos and ganks all the time, but so many public players are just downright awful and afk in the jungle for 30 minutes only to produce no item of actual value and end up feeding.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-07-07 at 11:00 PM.
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  3. #1463
    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    Errr don't be so happy cause they're playing on EU servers still for some reason even though they can't communicate with anyone. I had US East in my search so when I play later I get some US games and i'm getting much better games out of it.

    After making friends with one american I might just start playing US East exclusively. Russians really are getting to me that badly
    I've been searching for games on US East and West servers exclusively for a couple of days now, and I've been having a blast. Communication really is key in this game. I mostly get victories on US servers thanks to communication, come to think of it the only time I ever lose on a US server is when my allies start arguing over random bullshit (mid or feed kind of stuff), which makes them lose focus over the entire game.

    The only downside of a playing on a US server (for me) is the huge difference in timezones: lower queues in the morning, higher in the evening. I almost always get ~5 min queues at night, and I tend to get bored of long queues, ending up playing on the russian-fest that is the EU server. Ahhh russians! Gotta love 'em! Heh, I guess sometimes even russians don't want to play with russians sice every once in a while you can find one sneaking into a US server :P

  4. #1464
    at first, I've seen very good Russian players in my games. While everyone was bashing them I thought people were over-reacting because of language thingy. But now I've noticed that they refuse to communicate, co-operate and they play shit and I can't explain the annoyance they caused last to me few months in games. If Valve force them to play in their own server, I'll be glad.

  5. #1465
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    this can't be a reason for lost. You lost because your carry couldn't farm. Carries' farm do not rely on early kills...



    I do get hand of midas Asap to furion and aganim scepter if our burst damage is enough in team, mjolnir otherwise or even sheepstick if needed. Early aganim on furion will do wonders if ulti is used properly.

    but I do doubt your knowledge about DotA especially after your brilliant analysis about the reason behind the lost.

    "we lost because my blackhole get last hits" really?

    but not because your stupid carry tried to gank instead of some solid farm?
    Let me get this straight. Of course there are often multiple factors that determine a win or a loss, but the difference between a fed carry, and a super fed carry might give you the edge your team requires to win the game.

    The game I referred to had only one carry on each team. I was on dire, jungling as Enigma. The Kunkka (the carry in my team) was top, together with another hero. The carry virtually didn't waste time ganking as I was the one who came to them out of the woods. They were losing the lane so indeed he was somewhat underfed. You can argue that they were simply bad players, or whatever, but you can't always expect things to go as planned, especially in pub games. (On a side note, this Kunkka is one of my best friends and I consider him to be a better player than me.) So I tried to help, gank, and get our carry fed, however, I got ~5 of the kills with my abilities. I didn't need the money, as I had been jungling and would receive my blink/bkb regardless of the ganks. Watching back, this was probably one of the games where we needed that edge, and I screwed up. One could argue that five kills is not THAT much gold, but keep in mind that receiving this amount of additional gold early on gets you your items quicker, allowing for better and easier farm, thus receiving more gold in the long run, too. (Consider it some sort of snowball effect.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    The desolator is the item I had a problem with. I don't know why every public furion player thinks it's the best item ever. It's pretty common to see a furion farm up 20k gold worth of items, but have spent it on desolator/buriza/MKB and have about 1100 health. They die half a second into the team fight and then complain that their team sucks when a sheeper would have not only kept them alive but done a hell of a lot more.
    Ah! Lawl. In my games the Furions usually blindly rush Phaseboots > Midas > Scepter. Watching them fail horribly and add 0.0 to the team is probably the main source for my personal aversion regarding these items. I understand that Midas is nice for the AS and Scepter is good for your health pool, but so are power threads. I know that there is no definite X way to play Furion (same for many other heroes), and thus I have to agree that there are probably viable builds with said items. But then again, the way I usually play Furion: if the enemy composition allows me to get my build (imlying that my Furion is generally one of the last picks), I usually go for PT>Orchid>Deso>Guinsoo>...; Orchid is useful for the team, same goes for Guinsoo, and the combination of Orchid and Deso can literally melt someone in the blink of an eye. This forces the other team to stick together; if they make one mistake and go solo they're done for. Also, I 100%, no, 200% agree about the stuff you wrote regarding Guinsoo and Furion.
    So if you dislike Deso on him, then I will respect your opinion, but for me this build works perfectly fine as a complete pubstomper, so I'm holding on to it for now anyway.
    Last edited by conceit2; 2012-07-08 at 01:15 AM.

  6. #1466
    And they NW on cooldown to push the lanes out and ruin all 4 of their allies' farm. <3 pubfurion

    Orchid is a good item, and deso following it is fine for a simple reason - the silence from orchid is defensive as well as offensive. What's the leshrac you teleported on top of going to do when silenced. The problem I have with deso as a furion item is that most players get nothing defensive to accompany it.
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  7. #1467
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    I've been searching for games on US East and West servers exclusively for a couple of days now, and I've been having a blast. Communication really is key in this game. I mostly get victories on US servers thanks to communication, come to think of it the only time I ever lose on a US server is when my allies start arguing over random bullshit (mid or feed kind of stuff), which makes them lose focus over the entire game.

    The only downside of a playing on a US server (for me) is the huge difference in timezones: lower queues in the morning, higher in the evening. I almost always get ~5 min queues at night, and I tend to get bored of long queues, ending up playing on the russian-fest that is the EU server. Ahhh russians! Gotta love 'em! Heh, I guess sometimes even russians don't want to play with russians sice every once in a while you can find one sneaking into a US server :P
    My favourite one was the game I just had then. Some kunkka on the other team was spouting russian in allchat all game. At the end of the game i'm like "Are you even talking to him?" to the other team and they said no

    He literally was just spamming chat with it all game. /sigh

    And they wonder why we hate them

  8. #1468
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    My favourite one was the game I just had then. Some kunkka on the other team was spouting russian in allchat all game. At the end of the game i'm like "Are you even talking to him?" to the other team and they said no

    He literally was just spamming chat with it all game. /sigh

    And they wonder why we hate them
    You'll learn to hate the Brazilians if you play on US servers often enough. It's basically the same thing, but at least they don't use Cyrillic characters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  9. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    You'll learn to hate the Brazilians if you play on US servers often enough. It's basically the same thing, but at least they don't use Cyrillic characters.
    Instead they insult you in portugese like you don't know what "imbecil" means.
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  10. #1470
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Instead they insult you in portugese like you don't know what "imbecil" means.
    Garbage players aren't restricted to a specific culture or ethnicity :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  11. #1471
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Garbage players aren't restricted to a specific culture or ethnicity :/
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
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  12. #1472
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Garbage players aren't restricted to a specific culture or ethnicity :/
    I try to hold this view but there's just too big of a trend

  13. #1473
    Just watched group stage game of The Defense between Na'Vi and mTw...Great game. I suggest every DotA2 player to watch.

  14. #1474
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Just watched group stage game of The Defense between Na'Vi and mTw...Great game. I suggest every DotA2 player to watch.
    Beats losing every single game i've played today

  15. #1475
    "We've recently taken action..."

    Okay, they very rarely "ban" people (for all I know he just got a two hour debuff or something). Still, would be nicer to know who it was and what they actually did, I have 14 reports and all of them were very, very well deserved. Oh well, a little hope remains I guess.
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  16. #1476
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    "We've recently taken action..."

    Okay, they very rarely "ban" people (for all I know he just got a two hour debuff or something). Still, would be nicer to know who it was and what they actually did, I have 14 reports and all of them were very, very well deserved. Oh well, a little hope remains I guess.
    I'm up to 86 reports and 98 commendations. I've been reporting people for spamming trade shit in the chat - there's a subreddit for that, they can do that pointless shit there.

    Played against a Tiny-ES-VS-Lion-Leoric team today and god is stun spam cheesy as fuck. We were eventually able to afford BKBs, but VS (who went carry rather than support) was farmed as fuck by that point so she could really just right-click us down. And since ES and Tiny both had blink, we had to dump a lot of money on wards, and once ES started carrying a gem around...

    Swear to god I thought I was playing WoW for a little while there - stunned, stunned, stunned, stunned, dead.

    I'm of the conviction that all Storm Bolt stuns need to be removed from the game or retuned to be skill shots. It's way too fucking cheesy to click someone and grats, collect your gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  17. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I'm up to 86 reports and 98 commendations. I've been reporting people for spamming trade shit in the chat - there's a subreddit for that, they can do that pointless shit there.

    Played against a Tiny-ES-VS-Lion-Leoric team today and god is stun spam cheesy as fuck. We were eventually able to afford BKBs, but VS (who went carry rather than support) was farmed as fuck by that point so she could really just right-click us down. And since ES and Tiny both had blink, we had to dump a lot of money on wards, and once ES started carrying a gem around...

    Swear to god I thought I was playing WoW for a little while there - stunned, stunned, stunned, stunned, dead.

    I'm of the conviction that all Storm Bolt stuns need to be removed from the game or retuned to be skill shots. It's way too fucking cheesy to click someone and grats, collect your gold.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they did in League? Never played more than 2-3 games because I hated it, but didn't they lower the amount of stuns quite a bit?
    Honestly, its only a problem if they are a team like that, and even then only one person on your team is stunlocked.

  18. #1478
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they did in League? Never played more than 2-3 games because I hated it, but didn't they lower the amount of stuns quite a bit?
    Honestly, its only a problem if they are a team like that, and even then only one person on your team is stunlocked.
    No, but they introduced a stat called "Tenacity" that reduces the duration of disables on your hero. It's on a pair of boots and I think there were a couple of other items with it. It doesn't stack with other sources and provides 1% reduction per point of tenacity last time I checked, so the item with the most (the boots) gives 35% reduction.

    Then again, I don't think LoL has a BKB clone, and BKB requires a lot more skill since it's an ability that has to be activated before you're affected, rather than a passive which is always active.

    I dunno. I just think disable spam is pretty lame. They got a double kill right off the bat because they were all together and basically just spammed stuns until both of our guys in the lane died. It happened at like 00:15 so we weren't sure if they were trying to block creeps, were warding, or what. I wasn't about to run across the river to check, not with that many stuns.

    The entire reason we lost is because there was simply no way we could deal with so many disables just being spammed at us on top of the burst damage. Me as semi-carry WR and our two supports (Bane and CM) would literally die before the stuns ended due to how much burst Tiny has in the early game (especially when he's guaranteed to get a Toss due to a stormbolt stun from someone else, which did plenty of damage on its own!) and with our supports dead, they could eventually pick apart our CK and Bloodseeker. We started winning as many fights as we lost once we had BKBs on me, CK, and BS, but by time that happened they'd already gotten all the farm they needed to finish us off (VS had her deso, Tiny and ES had their blink, and Lion had finished Mek and was working on Agh's.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
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  19. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    No, but they introduced a stat called "Tenacity" that reduces the duration of disables on your hero. It's on a pair of boots and I think there were a couple of other items with it. It doesn't stack with other sources and provides 1% reduction per point of tenacity last time I checked, so the item with the most (the boots) gives 35% reduction.

    Then again, I don't think LoL has a BKB clone, and BKB requires a lot more skill since it's an ability that has to be activated before you're affected, rather than a passive which is always active.

    I dunno. I just think disable spam is pretty lame. They got a double kill right off the bat because they were all together and basically just spammed stuns until both of our guys in the lane died. It happened at like 00:15 so we weren't sure if they were trying to block creeps, were warding, or what. I wasn't about to run across the river to check, not with that many stuns.

    The entire reason we lost is because there was simply no way we could deal with so many disables just being spammed at us on top of the burst damage. Me as semi-carry WR and our two supports (Bane and CM) would literally die before the stuns ended due to how much burst Tiny has in the early game (especially when he's guaranteed to get a Toss due to a stormbolt stun from someone else, which did plenty of damage on its own!) and with our supports dead, they could eventually pick apart our CK and Bloodseeker. We started winning as many fights as we lost once we had BKBs on me, CK, and BS, but by time that happened they'd already gotten all the farm they needed to finish us off (VS had her deso, Tiny and ES had their blink, and Lion had finished Mek and was working on Agh's.)
    What was your team comp? Seems like your team just got initiated on much more often than you initiated (not your fault, because you were WR) but I've had many games where the other team starts every fight, and with stacked stuns that's a huge deal.

  20. #1480
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I'm up to 86 reports and 98 commendations. I've been reporting people for spamming trade shit in the chat - there's a subreddit for that, they can do that pointless shit there.
    I don't usually report people other than REALLY trolly stuff. Two of my reports are a VS/his friend combo that used a combination of force staffs and swaps to trap allies on hills (such as the scourge side ward spot for top rune) and then control the chicken so you couldn't fly in a TP scroll - of course, if an ally drops off a scroll for you VS breaks it with swap and you're still stuck. A couple of them are for people who just plain AFK an entire game from the first few minutes, like yesterday, when an AM picker on my team got "KSed" (friendly batrider last shotted an enemy when he was at 10 health and would have died if he let AM have it) at about 6 minutes, raged in team chat, and went AFK the rest of the game. Another one of my reports was a leshrac who bought observer wards so we couldn't use them, intentionally fed their hard carry several times, and after one of us had lothar's he started buying gems and feeding them to the enemy team. We had to buy gems ourselves just to break them when they came off cooldown. We actually won that game, but it didn't stop the report.
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