1. #1521
    Zeus is a terrible support and mediocre ganker with poor stat gain, you can't really play him effectively anywhere but mid and he gets dominated both in last hits and rune control. He's just a bad hero unfortunately

  2. #1522
    and he can't push any lane...he's not a pusher.

  3. #1523
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazytramp View Post
    Pretty interested in playing Witch Doctor. Good support? Any tips?
    This might help, only decent WD game I recall playing. Defensive play vs gankstack. dota2://matchid=23235978&matchtime=1
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-07-11 at 04:16 PM.



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  4. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by hailey View Post
    Zeus is a terrible support and mediocre ganker with poor stat gain, you can't really play him effectively anywhere but mid and he gets dominated both in last hits and rune control. He's just a bad hero unfortunately
    He needs a range increase really, I don't understand why he's got such a short range. No low-hp intelligence hero should be that short range

  5. #1525
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    Yeah, I think Zeus is in serious need of a range increase if he'd ever see pro play. He's not nearly versatile enough as a hero (why pick him over someone like Prophet?). He nukes hard, but that's mostly with his Lightning Bolt. Arc Lightning is mostly there just to stop pushes and proc his aura. And 3 (correct me if this is wrong) seconds of True Sight every like 2 minutes (again correct me if cooldown # is wrong, haven't played him in a while) isn't really worth it. If I wanted true sight I'd just grab dust, wards, or a gem (or play Gondar/Slardar).

  6. #1526
    Obsidian Destroyer is my new favorite carry. He is just so rediculously good versus... almost everyone. Even BKB Lycan.
    Last edited by conceit2; 2012-07-12 at 12:08 AM.

  7. #1527
    Hey guys. I am looking for a dota 2 beta key. Really want to try out the game with so many ppl praising it and it has really attracted me because of lack of a single meta game. Can anyone provide me with a beta key. Would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

    Also I want to know a few things. How many champions are currently on beta and how many will the game release with? How do you get into the game? Is it leveling and buying runes like LoL or is it different? What is a general comp in a match, like carry/tank/bruiser/etc and what strategies can you apply during a match? Can you make comebacks even if you are trailing from like 0-20 kills in a match or have less gold then the enemy team?
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  8. #1528
    Zeus is not support, and that's why he won't do the job well. Cast carry the same as QoP, only people will pick QoP for the job because she has the ability to blink for rune control and her auto attack is great in 1v1 situations. For side lanes they'll pick Leshrac because he's also got a great auto attack and is fast with a built in AoE stun.

    I like Zeus, and his team fight damage is huge. He can push most heroes out of lane spamming lightning bolt, but at the end of the day, he's too easy to gank and therefore a liability against high level teams.
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  9. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Hey guys. I am looking for a dota 2 beta key. Really want to try out the game with so many ppl praising it and it has really attracted me because of lack of a single meta game. Can anyone provide me with a beta key. Would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

    Also I want to know a few things. How many champions are currently on beta and how many will the game release with? How do you get into the game? Is it leveling and buying runes like LoL or is it different? What is a general comp in a match, like carry/tank/bruiser/etc and what strategies can you apply during a match? Can you make comebacks even if you are trailing from like 0-20 kills in a match or have less gold then the enemy team?
    I believe something like 85 out of 110 or so are in the game, will probably not actually release until all are in, then I assume they will continue to add heroes.
    Getting into the game just takes play time. Practice makes perfect. There are bots you can play with, but they are pretty crappy and act nothing like humans would, so I don't like them. Just like in LoL, i'd presume, people will give you crap for being new, but everyone was new once.
    Most teams in pubs should run with 2 support heroes, an initiator hero, a hard carry and an off carry/strong ganking hero.
    Comebacks are pretty hard to make from being down 20 kills, but I've made comebacks being down ~10. Good teamfights can change games as long as you CC or focus the threats on their team/pick 1-2 of them off before a good push, forcing a teamfight.
    I wish I had a key to give you, man, but I got mine from a buddy. The DotA2 store sells them, but they are $40 USD or something ridiculous like that. Hopefully someone in this thread has an extra.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 07:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Zeus is not support, and that's why he won't do the job well. Cast carry the same as QoP, only people will pick QoP for the job because she has the ability to blink for rune control and her auto attack is great in 1v1 situations. For side lanes they'll pick Leshrac because he's also got a great auto attack and is fast with a built in AoE stun.

    I like Zeus, and his team fight damage is huge. He can push most heroes out of lane spamming lightning bolt, but at the end of the day, he's too easy to gank and therefore a liability against high level teams.
    Yeah his lack of a utility spell (stun/slow/CC) is why I don't like him, really. If I play a nuker hero I play Lesh, Lion, or Lina because of AoE stuns with good damage potential. Zeus has always seemed like a meh hero to me. He's pretty easy to gank, as Lysah said, and really his best role is babysitting a carry early with the hardhitting lightning bolt for harass, but since his range is so low thats about all he can do.

  10. #1530
    When I played the Zeus equivalent in HoN (can't remember his name) I remember "carrying" with him all the time. That may have been because it was a pub game but it was also because I could make a Harkon on him and rape face. I'm curious if they'll make a Harkon like item in dota 2.

  11. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    Obsidian Destroyer is my new favorite carry. He is just so rediculously good versus... almost everyone. Even BKB Lycan.
    Yeah, he's a monster. His orb does so much damage and as soon as you get an orchid or Rod of Atos, you really don't have to worry too much about mana anymore. A CC that make's him stronger and an ult that does a crapload of damage to carries/tanks and drains support's mana, he's a real powerhouse. He's just squishy, so you need to make sure your team is able to peel off of you if more than 1 go for you.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 07:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    When I played the Zeus equivalent in HoN (can't remember his name) I remember "carrying" with him all the time. That may have been because it was a pub game but it was also because I could make a Harkon on him and rape face. I'm curious if they'll make a Harkon like item in dota 2.
    Thunderbringer. I really hope they don't. I liked the item, but it was too good. I remember too often playing Hellbringer with a Harkons and destroying people. Felt too strong to me, even with it's cost.

  12. #1532
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Yeah, I think Zeus is in serious need of a range increase if he'd ever see pro play. He's not nearly versatile enough as a hero (why pick him over someone like Prophet?). He nukes hard, but that's mostly with his Lightning Bolt. Arc Lightning is mostly there just to stop pushes and proc his aura. And 3 (correct me if this is wrong) seconds of True Sight every like 2 minutes (again correct me if cooldown # is wrong, haven't played him in a while) isn't really worth it. If I wanted true sight I'd just grab dust, wards, or a gem (or play Gondar/Slardar).
    Mostly because heroes like Furion, Leshrac, QoP, etc are very frequently banned. QoP a little less so in more recent games but Leshrac and Prophet are very commonly either banned or first-picks.

    Zeus can push pretty well with Arc Lightning spam though he's no good vs towers (unlike Furion /w Desolator or Leshrac in general... which is why they get banned so much) and he's a prime KILL HIM NOW target for the enemy team because he does so much AOE damage with his passive (Arc Lightning every two sec, 11% HP removal every two sec.) You're right that he's pretty lousy at CS, though - when you lane Zeus, you pretty much just focus on constantly nuking the enemy hero to force them to hug their tower, otherwise you're never going to beat them in creepscore.



    WD's a fucking beast, I don't know why he isn't more common. He can stop creep waves pretty fast with his stun, his stun's like Shackle on steroids if you time it right (you can stun two heroes for 5 sec+4 sec), Malefice makes running from teamfights difficult (you can run and Malefice will kill you anyway), and his ulti wipes teams early on. Later, once he has the INT and regen to support it, his W makes pushing a breeze by keeping everyone topped off.

    Had a hilarious game yesterday with WD. Had a pretty average team overall with a very new Lycan on our team. Enemy had a pretty good Huskar, an awful Ursa that wouldn't fucking shut the fuck up, and pretty average players otherwise. What's so funny about it is that they pretty much threw the game due to their Ursa being a fucking moron.

    I laned with Lycan (he said he didn't feel comfortable jungling... given this is Lycan we're talking about, this should give you an idea of how new this guy was) vs Ursa+Panda (lane Ursa, wat.) Lycan didn't do so well at creepscore and I was focused primarily on picking at Ursa and Panda to keep them playing defensive. Huskar periodically left mid (I forget who laned against him... Lion...?) and they'd dive the tower and wipe us. Happened a couple of times. Had to teach Lycan how to put his wolves on a control group and control them manually when Huskar ran away with 25 HP left and the wolves were busily chomping on some creeps instead of getting Lycan a kill.

    Ursa gets an early, free Rosh. Basically the guy gets a couple of kills/assists and about 20 total minutes of completely uninterrupted farm. If anyone with a pulse is playing an Ursa with that much free farm, that's pretty much GG. Panda was being an enormous pain in the ass with his frankly overpowered ulti (shit should seriously spawn the brewlings with the same percent HP as panda has when he performs the split), their PA was getting relatively free farm (we ganked her a couple of times but we couldn't make it happen consistently) and they'd occasionally dive our Tiny+AM lane on bot and wipe them out too. In other words, we were getting curbstomped, right?

    Amazingly, everyone keeps a cool head and no one really rages at each other. We lose some towers and just turtle pretty hard. Ursa continues getting free Roshes. They'd group up for a 5 man push on our mid and our Lycan would constantly backdoor them. When they return to defend (none of them had TP scrolls, because dumb), he'd just pop ulti and run the fuck away (technically he should ulti during the BD and use a TP to get away, but the guy was new.) If they chased, we'd setup an ambush and pick off 2-3 and push mid. Our Tiny's pretty good and our AM is at least competent (went straight for a yasha into a single target build, I guess he figured the game was too long to go the bfury route) and between me and Lion we've got a lot of CC.

    Eventually Ursa gets a big head (usually after a Rosh) and decides he can 1v5 us. We sheep and stun him into the ground, he rezzes, I pop ulti while Lion and Tiny stun him and we get free money and XP. He promptly blabs something about "rofl takes all 5" as if basically feeding our AM (who usually got the kb) is something he should be proud of. Huskar, Panda, PA, and the other guy (can't fucking remember who it was) would try to push and usually lose the 4v5 and we'd take another tower and back off.

    Eventually I finished my sheepstick, AM finished his basher (after SnY), and I want to say Lion went Agh's. AM could effectively solo Ursa at this point (especially once he got medallion of evasion on his way to making bfly) and Lion and I would just CC Huskar into the ground. Panda was still being a pain in the ass with his ulti but once everyone was into their 20s, he wasn't able to make solo kills anymore and we'd just focus down their actual DPS. I think Huskar and PA got BKBs (didn't matter, AM would just eat them anyway), but Ursa never did. Hell, Ursa never even got Lothars. Once I finished my Force Staff early on, Ursa's success rate plummeted.

    As we're killing their ancient, Ursa quips about how his team is "bad" and just in general starts raging. 56 minute game. Uninterrupted farm plus some kills in the first 20 mins of the game. And he's saying his team is bad? He's vs WD with sheepstick and Lion and he never gets BKB?

    Jesus christ, some people just need to get cancer.
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  13. #1533
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    Does anyone know how the performance bar actually works? I'm just curious, because apparently my best performance is with Omni, lol.

  14. #1534
    So I'm trying to get into this game more, and so far, it's kind of intimidating. I've played a few games, but people always know exactly what to do and they know exactly what's going on all the time, and I'm just in a haze. I'm pretty new to MOBAs, but all of my friends love playing Dota 2, so I'd really like to get better so that I can play on the same level that they're on, but I just don't even know where to start, or what heroes I'd even be good with. Is there some type of information source with reliable builds, etc? I've heard of Dotafire, but I know that some people say that it's not a good source, so I'm not sure if I should be using it as a reference or not. Are there good Youtubers that people might recommend? I mainly just want to learn as much as I can about the game so that I can adjust better. I feel really lost right now. The only MOBA experience I've had is a couple of dozen LoL games... I've mostly been sticking to bot games in Dota so far just because I feel like my team would get mad at me in a real game, but I don't know if that's the best way to learn since bots aren't the same as people.

  15. #1535
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Yeah his lack of a utility spell (stun/slow/CC) is why I don't like him, really. If I play a nuker hero I play Lesh, Lion, or Lina because of AoE stuns with good damage potential. Zeus has always seemed like a meh hero to me. He's pretty easy to gank, as Lysah said, and really his best role is babysitting a carry early with the hardhitting lightning bolt for harass, but since his range is so low thats about all he can do.
    Zeus has to be mid, he needs the experience. He can do fine against a lot of other mids, the problem is, he is so easy to counter with a hero that can easily beat him to runes. Of course, you can always send your side lanes to help get runes and even create ganks on their mid if they counter in this way, but that's what meta is all about.

    By level 6 a bolt/wait/bolt+TGW can kill most squishy heroes that love to go mid. He's really not the worst mid, he can stack mana pots early and last hit with arc if he's against a hero who out last hits him. If he's against a hero like SF he can send him to base with one lightning bolt. The reason I don't like Zeus for mid is because you pretty much need to keep BOTH rune spots warded the entire time or else he has to hug his tower the second any stunner goes missing. On the other hand, his pure burst damage is actually pretty solid for ganking as long as your lanies can contribute anything at all. A bolt into an allies' stun can give you time for a follow up bolt which can secure kills easily early game.

    All in all, Zeus isn't a bad hero. His fault is that, like any carry, his team must be built around him, and the way the game goes right now, that's just not easy to do.
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  16. #1536
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    Quote Originally Posted by wynnyelle View Post
    So I'm trying to get into this game more, and so far, it's kind of intimidating. I've played a few games, but people always know exactly what to do and they know exactly what's going on all the time, and I'm just in a haze. I'm pretty new to MOBAs, but all of my friends love playing Dota 2, so I'd really like to get better so that I can play on the same level that they're on, but I just don't even know where to start, or what heroes I'd even be good with. Is there some type of information source with reliable builds, etc? I've heard of Dotafire, but I know that some people say that it's not a good source, so I'm not sure if I should be using it as a reference or not. Are there good Youtubers that people might recommend? I mainly just want to learn as much as I can about the game so that I can adjust better. I feel really lost right now. The only MOBA experience I've had is a couple of dozen LoL games... I've mostly been sticking to bot games in Dota so far just because I feel like my team would get mad at me in a real game, but I don't know if that's the best way to learn since bots aren't the same as people.
    As far as I know, I think PurgeGaming is a Youtube channel with Hero Guides. You can also ask around in this thread, obviously, and you start to get used to animations and each hero. Also have some friends play some bot games, explain heroes to you. You can also click enemy heroes and read their skills. It is pretty intimidating though.

    Someone posted this guide a while back, it's word choice is pretty honest, but it can be pretty helpful to new players.
    http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck

    Edit: some of it only pertains to DotA1, but still. (Game modes and such, a lot of them aren't in the game yet.)
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-07-12 at 08:36 AM.

  17. #1537
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wynnyelle View Post
    So I'm trying to get into this game more, and so far, it's kind of intimidating. I've played a few games, but people always know exactly what to do and they know exactly what's going on all the time, and I'm just in a haze. I'm pretty new to MOBAs, but all of my friends love playing Dota 2, so I'd really like to get better so that I can play on the same level that they're on, but I just don't even know where to start, or what heroes I'd even be good with. Is there some type of information source with reliable builds, etc? I've heard of Dotafire, but I know that some people say that it's not a good source, so I'm not sure if I should be using it as a reference or not. Are there good Youtubers that people might recommend? I mainly just want to learn as much as I can about the game so that I can adjust better. I feel really lost right now. The only MOBA experience I've had is a couple of dozen LoL games... I've mostly been sticking to bot games in Dota so far just because I feel like my team would get mad at me in a real game, but I don't know if that's the best way to learn since bots aren't the same as people.
    Watch pro games on joinDOTA's Youtube channel, or watch them live on their own3d.tv stream. Tobi's a pretty good caster and he frequently has captains or players from professional teams duo-casting with him. In-game you're safe going with the builds listed for any hero - they aren't always ideal but they're never wrong.

    I usually watch a game while eating breakfast and dinner and that's about it. Most guides on places like DotaFIRE or the joinDOTA forums aren't made by people that really know what they're talking about. The pros don't have the time or the inclination to make things like that and the people that DO make things like that are usually idiots that performed the build once or twice in a pub and think it applies to every game.

    Some good heroes to start with:

    - Sven. Take Storm Hammer and stats early on. Pick up a level in War Cry at level 5. Get God's Strength whenever it's available. Start picking up Great Cleave by level 12, you can get it earlier if you want. You might get extra levels in War Cry early if you think you'll need the extra armor, but I usually just put 1 point in it for the free move speed and then forget about it.

    Get yourself Phase Boots, Mask of Madness, and Black King Bar in any order - probably boots, mask, and then BKB for best results. You'll probably want to make at least one Bracer for the extra stats early on, and you can turn it into Drum of Endurance later. Pop God's Strength, use BKB, stun someone, and go chop them in half. Armlet of Mordiggian is also a fantastic item on Sven; you can buy the Helm of Iron Will from the side shop while you're laning, and it'll make it a lot easier for you to stay in your lane with the HP regen and armor boost it provides. Sven is also a good user of Vladimir's Offering due to his insane damage with God's Strength, so you may want to build a Ring of Basilius so you can finish Vlad's later.



    - Chaos Knight. Pretty similar to Sven. Grab Chaos Bolt and Reality Rift early on, you want them maxed fast. Skip Phantasm at level 6 and focus on your stun and blink. Once Chaos Bolt and Reality Rift are maxed, you can start on Chaos Strike, but I like taking an extra level or two of stats. Pick up Phantasm at level 10 and again at level 11. Max Chaos Strike before level 16. Your role's pretty simple - pop your ulti, Reality Rift to someone, follow that with a Chaos Bolt, and watch them explode. You can wreck towers with ease, too - again, pop your ulti and go to town.

    Items are pretty similar to Sven's, though give Mask of Madness a pass. Armlet of Mordiggian can be very good on CK, make sure it's active before you use your ultimate and your images will receive the stat boost. BKB is a little less important for CK since his real damage in teamfights comes from his illusions, which can't benefit from BKB... but you should still make one against most team lineups.



    - Ursa. Probably the most simple hero in the game, pretty much all you do is right-click. He's an easy jungler, so jungle him. Leave base with a Stout Shield, a salve, and some tangos. Start with Fury Swipes and alternate leveling it with Overpower. Work your way around the jungle. You want to prioritize finishing Vladimir's Offering over everything else. Once you finish Vlad's, you should be capable of soloing Roshan, so go do that (it'll be a little faster if you can get a teammate to help but it's not necessary, and the more people that go missing the more likely the enemy team is to go and check rosh pit) for free XP and gold for your team and an extra life. Your role in teamfights is brainless - pop ulti, pop Overpower, blink in, stomp, and start gibbing whoever's closest.

    Vladimir's Offering should be your first item. Make Phase Boots after that, and then grab a Blink Dagger. Shadow Blade works fine for pubs, but we want to instill good habits at an early stage, so skip it and get Blink Dagger. Blink in behind someone, stomp, and gib them. Fun! Once the game starts getting around to the 30 min mark or so you won't be able to instantly blow people up, so you'll probably want a BKB to ensure you can keep the gravy train rolling. Sange (eventually built into Sange and Yasha) and Skull Basher can help you stick to people once they can survive the initial burst. If the enemy team has a carry that's getting scary, Heaven's Halberd is an effective alternative to Sange and Yasha (it's built with Sange, so always start with Sange first regardless of which item you want to get.)



    - Necrolyte. Some might disagree, but he's a very simple hero to play and because his passive requires last hits, he's great for training you to land last hits effectively. He's very simple to lane - take Death Pulse, take Sadist, and use them together to constantly spam the former while the latter keeps your mana high. Use your autoattacks to get all nearby creeps at low levels of health, pop off a Death Pulse, and you net cash, recover a large portion of the mana cost, and also patch up your own creeps. Necro's pretty squishy, though, so he's best off soloing a safe lane (top for Dire or bottom for Radiant, or ideally middle.) Grab Reaper's Scythe at level 6 and start paying attention to other lanes. If the other lanes have an enemy hero that's hovering around half HP, go get an easy kill - coordinate with your teammates to pop your ulti on them, drop them to about 35% or less while the stun is happening, and your ulti finishes them off. Easy!

    People argue about items for Necrolyte but you mostly want to focus on staying alive. Starting with a Stout Shield and building into Vanguard is one option; building a quick Mekansm for your team is another option (or you can get both!) You probably won't need a lot of mana boosters, but Arcane Boots help your team and are always useful. You can also pick up Power Treads (Strength) if you'd like some extra HP.




    - Crystal Maiden. Like Necro, she's very squishy in addition to being very slow, but CM's pretty easy to play and has a powerhouse early and mid-game, but she tapers off in the late game if you haven't been able to get items. There are two ways of skilling her, depending on how aggressive you plan on being - the first way is to pick up a single point into Crystal Nova and then alternate Frostbite and Arcane Aura, to give your entire team free mana regen for the early game. The other way is to ignore Arcane Aura and focus on Crystal Nova and Frosbite, and that build's used for a more aggressive lane strategy - you want to be getting kills early and often. You'll almost always want to skip your ultimate until at least level 10 (most of the time I skip it until my other three skills are maxed) and Boots of Speed really need to be your first item - CM is super super slow. You should probably initiate with Crystal Nova to slow your target and make it easier to land your Frostbite, but you can do the reverse: hit them with Frostbite and then land Crystal Nova right as Frostbite ends to keep them from moving very far. CM's very nasty when combo'd with a hero with a ranged disable, such as Sven/CK, Lion, or Vengeful Spirit.

    A couple of Bracers will help CM be a little less squishy, and you can turn one of them into Drums of Endurance, too. Phase Boots are absolutely necessary for CM's slow ass. Once you finish those necessaries, you have some options. You can be your team's Mek-bot, or you can build a disable item. If you're poor, go for Eul's Scepter of Divinity. If you're getting plenty of income, Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse is your preferred choice. If you're getting curbstomped, Rod of Atos will make you a little tankier, give you plenty of mana, and provides a nice slow you can stack on top of everything else.
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  18. #1538
    Just a quick note, Black King Bar is a core item on Witch Doctor, not Shadowblade/Lothar's, it adds HP and spell immunity, invisibility is too easy countered, and WD already has decent autoattack damage and incredible attack animation. Maledict is hard to land, but once you get a hang of it, you'll kill/gank really well (always gank with partner, stun, slow helps to land it, target with maledict dies from autoattacks, anything else is a guaranteed kill^^).
    As for Zeus, he's a short ranged no-hp hero without escape mechanism, he dies as soon as someone looks at him basically, rest of nukers atleast have a disable.

  19. #1539
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    Force Staff is such a strong item. I played a game as Obsidian Destroyer earlier tonight, and damn. Every game I use it it gets closer and closer to being the most fun item to have. Able to force staff allies during a chase, force staff out of danger, so many possibilities.
    I was able to 3v1 as OD just now against Anti mage, storm spirit, and Beastmaster, granted, they were shitty, but still.
    Force staffed AM away after he blinked, killed him in a few shots, 2 others showed up, prisoned brew and ulted, raped the other two. So fun.

    Edit: how do you take those screenshots of the post-game stats just showing the stats? Do people just crop the rest out?
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-07-12 at 10:51 AM.

  20. #1540
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    Very nice post there PizzaShark! Thanks

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