1. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Because it's better they learn what the heroes do there instead of joining a game with players and effectively ruining one team's chances of winning.

    Bots harass effectively, are somewhat competent at last hitting (don't think I saw them ever deny), and usually are pretty good about ganking and grouping together. They'll teach rank newbies everything they need to know in order to do something other than feed, rage about OP, and abandon when they start playing vs players.

    Honestly, they should really just force everyone to play (and win) at least 10 botmatches before they're allowed to queue to play against other players.
    And read what I wrote before replying. I just said that I find it better to create a lobby, fill all empty slots with unfair bots (including your team) and play a game. Do people not know that this option exist? You will learn more than playing a coop game vs bots with players that are even worse than bots.

  2. #1682
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    Reading through a Reddit discussion, and it occurs to me that Maelstrom/Mjollnir might actually be pretty good on Sven, if you aren't building him as a carry.

    See, I think there are better choices as a carry. CK has the stun and can't really be kited (and his ulti's effectively way more damage than Sven's) and Skeleton King is pretty much immortal if you play him right, and gets free crit and lifesteal.

    But Sven gets a massive armor buff that affects creeps, and free cleave, in addition to his great stats and his ultimate. It means Sven's amazingly good at pushing down towers, though certainly he isn't top tier (but then again, you aren't gonna see Sven banned, either.)

    And Maelstrom/Mjollnir is one of those items that isn't really core or standard on anyone, but can be useful to almost anyone (Zeus with Mjollnir is amusing as hell.)

    But Mjollnir is the best single-slot IAS item in the game, and the chain lightning works well with cleaves. Additionally, it only functions as a UAM when the chain lightning procs, which means it doesn't completely rule out other UAM items.

    I'm thinking of a build something like:

    - Leave base with consumables and 3 branches.

    - Boots as first item so you can get first blood/early kills.

    - Finish Magic Wand when it seems appropriate.

    - Buy Helm of Iron Will from side shop.

    - Finish Phase Boots (if you need the movement speed.)

    - Buy Mithril Hammer, then buy Ogre Axe.

    - If needed, finish Black King Bar. If you don't need it, finish Maelstrom (enemies will see Hammer+Axe and assume BKB, you can surprise them by getting Maelstrom.)

    - Finish Armlet of Mordiggian, Black King Bar, or Mjollnir as needed.


    Basically, the idea is that you have Wand+Helmet for your early and mid-game sustain. The armor lets you be a little more aggressive and the wand will help you make sure you always have mana for a stun. Starting with a shield and turning it into Vanguard is another option. You could also start with 2x Gauntlets and go for 2x Bracer, but I'm trying to streamline this as much as possible.

    I prefer Phase Boots to Treads. The stats from Treads are nice, but I get a lot more kills by chasing someone trying to run and landing the stun that lets my team catch up than by right-clicking people down. Also gives you more mobility, making roaming (which, IMO, is Sven's post lvl 6 role) easier. If you don't need the speed, I'd just leave them as basic boots and get Boots of Travel in the late game for better pushing.

    Start with the Mithril Hammer. You're Sven, they're gonna assume it's a BKB. I'd also recommend the Ogre Axe for the extra STR, but I don't think it's necessary unless you really ARE beelining for BKB. Then you make Maelstrom or BKB depending on what you need - it's why I go for the hammer first, because you don't want to show your hand until after you finish one or the other (either you finish BKB and oh christ Sven's eating us or you finish Maelstrom and oh christ Sven's eating our tower.) You'll probably want both before you go for other stuff, though.

    After that, I'm thinking you have choices. Armlet's usually a mid game item and not a late game item (you could probably alter the item order), but it's always good on Sven, especially since his ulti benefits from Armlet's STR boost. Mjollnir is the logical progression from Maelstrom, since once you finish Maelstrom you should be a farming/pushing machine; Assault Cuirass would be a better choice if your team isn't getting one already. Boots of Travel would be great for split pushing; otherwise you could probably just carry a TP scroll.

    The general idea is that you'd push in with a creep wave, with your buffs and huge cleave damage basically obliterating the enemy creep waves before they can do much to yours. I'm pretty sure that after you get Hyperstone/Armlet, you could probably pop ulti and backdoor towers. With high HP and +17 armor from shout+armlet, the tower probably wouldn't do much to you before it dies.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  3. #1683
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Reading through a Reddit discussion, and it occurs to me that Maelstrom/Mjollnir might actually be pretty good on Sven, if you aren't building him as a carry.

    See, I think there are better choices as a carry. CK has the stun and can't really be kited (and his ulti's effectively way more damage than Sven's) and Skeleton King is pretty much immortal if you play him right, and gets free crit and lifesteal.

    But Sven gets a massive armor buff that affects creeps, and free cleave, in addition to his great stats and his ultimate. It means Sven's amazingly good at pushing down towers, though certainly he isn't top tier (but then again, you aren't gonna see Sven banned, either.)

    And Maelstrom/Mjollnir is one of those items that isn't really core or standard on anyone, but can be useful to almost anyone (Zeus with Mjollnir is amusing as hell.)

    But Mjollnir is the best single-slot IAS item in the game, and the chain lightning works well with cleaves. Additionally, it only functions as a UAM when the chain lightning procs, which means it doesn't completely rule out other UAM items.

    I'm thinking of a build something like:

    - Leave base with consumables and 3 branches.

    - Boots as first item so you can get first blood/early kills.

    - Finish Magic Wand when it seems appropriate.

    - Buy Helm of Iron Will from side shop.

    - Finish Phase Boots (if you need the movement speed.)

    - Buy Mithril Hammer, then buy Ogre Axe.

    - If needed, finish Black King Bar. If you don't need it, finish Maelstrom (enemies will see Hammer+Axe and assume BKB, you can surprise them by getting Maelstrom.)

    - Finish Armlet of Mordiggian, Black King Bar, or Mjollnir as needed.


    Basically, the idea is that you have Wand+Helmet for your early and mid-game sustain. The armor lets you be a little more aggressive and the wand will help you make sure you always have mana for a stun. Starting with a shield and turning it into Vanguard is another option. You could also start with 2x Gauntlets and go for 2x Bracer, but I'm trying to streamline this as much as possible.

    I prefer Phase Boots to Treads. The stats from Treads are nice, but I get a lot more kills by chasing someone trying to run and landing the stun that lets my team catch up than by right-clicking people down. Also gives you more mobility, making roaming (which, IMO, is Sven's post lvl 6 role) easier. If you don't need the speed, I'd just leave them as basic boots and get Boots of Travel in the late game for better pushing.

    Start with the Mithril Hammer. You're Sven, they're gonna assume it's a BKB. I'd also recommend the Ogre Axe for the extra STR, but I don't think it's necessary unless you really ARE beelining for BKB. Then you make Maelstrom or BKB depending on what you need - it's why I go for the hammer first, because you don't want to show your hand until after you finish one or the other (either you finish BKB and oh christ Sven's eating us or you finish Maelstrom and oh christ Sven's eating our tower.) You'll probably want both before you go for other stuff, though.

    After that, I'm thinking you have choices. Armlet's usually a mid game item and not a late game item (you could probably alter the item order), but it's always good on Sven, especially since his ulti benefits from Armlet's STR boost. Mjollnir is the logical progression from Maelstrom, since once you finish Maelstrom you should be a farming/pushing machine; Assault Cuirass would be a better choice if your team isn't getting one already. Boots of Travel would be great for split pushing; otherwise you could probably just carry a TP scroll.

    The general idea is that you'd push in with a creep wave, with your buffs and huge cleave damage basically obliterating the enemy creep waves before they can do much to yours. I'm pretty sure that after you get Hyperstone/Armlet, you could probably pop ulti and backdoor towers. With high HP and +17 armor from shout+armlet, the tower probably wouldn't do much to you before it dies.
    Meh, I think BKB -> MoM -> Daedalus is best build for carry, and if you aren't carrying you are getting urn and blink dagger and such, and maelstrom doesn't really fit the support role.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-07-19 at 07:35 AM.

  4. #1684
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    If you haven't answered the dota survey on steam/their main site, go ahead and do that. (If you don't know what numbers to put in just ask it's really easy to bullshit your way through)

    Otherwise you can grab a pretty cheap invite over here. Usual going rate is 2-3 keys (4-6 euros) per invite.
    Thank you. I will do the survey ;P

  5. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Meh, I think BKB -> MoM -> Daedalus is best build for carry, and if you aren't carrying you are getting urn and blink dagger and such, and maelstrom doesn't really fit the support role.
    Why would Sven get Blink if he isn't playing carry? Urn makes sense and gives you reason to start with 2x gauntlet, but blink makes no sense for him. If you're playing a hard support-y style, Force Staff is a LOT better because it can be used in a lot more ways. Blink is better if you're going to carry/initiate, but its lack of stats for basically the same cost makes me question using it if you're going for a support-y style.

    I'm wondering about an early Orb of Venom for Sven. Helps him stick, disables things like Blink Dagger, gives your team an extra (minor) slow, and it's cheap. Just sucks that it doesn't build into anything but Skadi so it'd be "wasted" gold.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  6. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Because it's better they learn what the heroes do there instead of joining a game with players and effectively ruining one team's chances of winning.

    Bots harass effectively, are somewhat competent at last hitting (don't think I saw them ever deny), and usually are pretty good about ganking and grouping together. They'll teach rank newbies everything they need to know in order to do something other than feed, rage about OP, and abandon when they start playing vs players.

    Honestly, they should really just force everyone to play (and win) at least 10 botmatches before they're allowed to queue to play against other players.
    Bots do deny, quite a lot.

  7. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    And read what I wrote before replying. I just said that I find it better to create a lobby, fill all empty slots with unfair bots (including your team) and play a game. Do people not know that this option exist? You will learn more than playing a coop game vs bots with players that are even worse than bots.
    To be fair, the typically awful players that usually infest botmatches are pretty representative of what you're going to be teamed with before you pull yourself out of the shithole the MMR system initially assigns you to. Your first five or ten games against players are gonna be pretty awful.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  8. #1688
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    DotA2 is unfortunately very one meta right now =/
    Guess you never played LoL :P

  9. #1689
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Why would Sven get Blink if he isn't playing carry? Urn makes sense and gives you reason to start with 2x gauntlet, but blink makes no sense for him. If you're playing a hard support-y style, Force Staff is a LOT better because it can be used in a lot more ways. Blink is better if you're going to carry/initiate, but its lack of stats for basically the same cost makes me question using it if you're going for a support-y style.

    I'm wondering about an early Orb of Venom for Sven. Helps him stick, disables things like Blink Dagger, gives your team an extra (minor) slow, and it's cheap. Just sucks that it doesn't build into anything but Skadi so it'd be "wasted" gold.
    Blink dagger is better for sven in any case.

  10. #1690
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    If you haven't answered the dota survey on steam/their main site, go ahead and do that. (If you don't know what numbers to put in just ask it's really easy to bullshit your way through)
    Is there any particular system with the numbers that makes you more likely to receive an invite based on what you entered? If so, then I'd appreciate the info :>

    credits: Supernerd

  11. #1691
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Reading through a Reddit discussion, and it occurs to me that Maelstrom/Mjollnir might actually be pretty good on Sven, if you aren't building him as a carry.

    See, I think there are better choices as a carry. CK has the stun and can't really be kited (and his ulti's effectively way more damage than Sven's) and Skeleton King is pretty much immortal if you play him right, and gets free crit and lifesteal.

    But Sven gets a massive armor buff that affects creeps, and free cleave, in addition to his great stats and his ultimate. It means Sven's amazingly good at pushing down towers, though certainly he isn't top tier (but then again, you aren't gonna see Sven banned, either.)

    And Maelstrom/Mjollnir is one of those items that isn't really core or standard on anyone, but can be useful to almost anyone (Zeus with Mjollnir is amusing as hell.)

    But Mjollnir is the best single-slot IAS item in the game, and the chain lightning works well with cleaves. Additionally, it only functions as a UAM when the chain lightning procs, which means it doesn't completely rule out other UAM items.

    I'm thinking of a build something like:

    - Leave base with consumables and 3 branches.

    - Boots as first item so you can get first blood/early kills.

    - Finish Magic Wand when it seems appropriate.

    - Buy Helm of Iron Will from side shop.

    - Finish Phase Boots (if you need the movement speed.)

    - Buy Mithril Hammer, then buy Ogre Axe.

    - If needed, finish Black King Bar. If you don't need it, finish Maelstrom (enemies will see Hammer+Axe and assume BKB, you can surprise them by getting Maelstrom.)

    - Finish Armlet of Mordiggian, Black King Bar, or Mjollnir as needed.


    Basically, the idea is that you have Wand+Helmet for your early and mid-game sustain. The armor lets you be a little more aggressive and the wand will help you make sure you always have mana for a stun. Starting with a shield and turning it into Vanguard is another option. You could also start with 2x Gauntlets and go for 2x Bracer, but I'm trying to streamline this as much as possible.

    I prefer Phase Boots to Treads. The stats from Treads are nice, but I get a lot more kills by chasing someone trying to run and landing the stun that lets my team catch up than by right-clicking people down. Also gives you more mobility, making roaming (which, IMO, is Sven's post lvl 6 role) easier. If you don't need the speed, I'd just leave them as basic boots and get Boots of Travel in the late game for better pushing.

    Start with the Mithril Hammer. You're Sven, they're gonna assume it's a BKB. I'd also recommend the Ogre Axe for the extra STR, but I don't think it's necessary unless you really ARE beelining for BKB. Then you make Maelstrom or BKB depending on what you need - it's why I go for the hammer first, because you don't want to show your hand until after you finish one or the other (either you finish BKB and oh christ Sven's eating us or you finish Maelstrom and oh christ Sven's eating our tower.) You'll probably want both before you go for other stuff, though.

    After that, I'm thinking you have choices. Armlet's usually a mid game item and not a late game item (you could probably alter the item order), but it's always good on Sven, especially since his ulti benefits from Armlet's STR boost. Mjollnir is the logical progression from Maelstrom, since once you finish Maelstrom you should be a farming/pushing machine; Assault Cuirass would be a better choice if your team isn't getting one already. Boots of Travel would be great for split pushing; otherwise you could probably just carry a TP scroll.

    The general idea is that you'd push in with a creep wave, with your buffs and huge cleave damage basically obliterating the enemy creep waves before they can do much to yours. I'm pretty sure that after you get Hyperstone/Armlet, you could probably pop ulti and backdoor towers. With high HP and +17 armor from shout+armlet, the tower probably wouldn't do much to you before it dies.
    I agree that Malestrom/Mjollnir would be good on sven, however back in the day (i'm trying to get it working in beta now) a friend of mine and my self would actually go Battle furry first. It stacks with his inherent cleave, giving a near 100% cleave damage- with right hero setup can decimate an enemy team and is retarded for pushing down lanes as you can clear an entire wave in 3 swings, or just 1 /w ulty on. Only problem I'm having right now is start items leading into mid game and late game items. Saving up for Ring and Void off the bat has been proving difficult. That and finding a team that can actually make it to midish late game (say 16-19) before the opposing team has pushed an entire lane down.
    Last edited by Ichy; 2012-07-19 at 01:27 PM.

  12. #1692
    if only all the idiot russians would go to their shitty russian server and stay there and not ruin the games for everyone, it would be such a great world.

  13. #1693
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsdott View Post
    Is there any particular system with the numbers that makes you more likely to receive an invite based on what you entered? If so, then I'd appreciate the info :>
    There are some theories but nobody knows for certain. Either it's weighted one way or the other or completely random so it can't really hurt to have the "right" numbers.

    Also, steam won't let me access the survey again would appreciate a question list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jangri- View Post
    Guess you never played LoL :P
    Funny, considering she used to be LoL section mod.
    Last edited by Zefie; 2012-07-19 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #1694
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Funny, considering she used to be LoL section mod.
    I'm sure it helps don't get me wrong, but you don't have to do what ever the forum is about to moderate it.

    On topic- Was kind of hoping to see a bit more about my call on the Battle Fury for Sven. Though it worked well on the Brewmaster too, I just haven't gotten around to seeing if it still works well- I kinda don't like Brew's ulty mainly because i"m not good at micro managing.

    What I'd like to do for sven is: Basic Boots -> Battle fury -> advanced boots (tread/phase)-> crit stick -> MoM (for controllable burst with Ulty). Survive ability item purchased around time of boots- probably Shield, can also do armlet before battle fury for ealy damage gain while farming up BF.

  15. #1695
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    I'm sure it helps don't get me wrong, but you don't have to do what ever the forum is about to moderate it.

    On topic- Was kind of hoping to see a bit more about my call on the Battle Fury for Sven. Though it worked well on the Brewmaster too, I just haven't gotten around to seeing if it still works well- I kinda don't like Brew's ulty mainly because i"m not good at micro managing.

    What I'd like to do for sven is: Basic Boots -> Battle fury -> advanced boots (tread/phase)-> crit stick -> MoM (for controllable burst with Ulty). Survive ability item purchased around time of boots- probably Shield, can also do armlet before battle fury for ealy damage gain while farming up BF.
    Bfury works fine for Sven, but what he needs is IAS, not damage. He gets plenty of damage from his ulti. Maelstrom's also magic damage, meaning Sven's still dangerous even if you start stacking armor. The chain lightning's only 140 damage, but it doesn't decay after jumping, so it ends up being good damage in the mid game.

    Mjollnir's Static Shield is also a very hard counter to an enemy Radiance, since Radiance burn can proc it (and it's a 200 dmg nuke to the enemy team every time it procs.)
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  16. #1696
    Quote Originally Posted by Jangri- View Post
    Guess you never played LoL :P
    Why do you think I quit the day I got a DotA2 key?
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  17. #1697
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Maelstrom/Mjollnir are definitely pretty good on Sven. Unfortunately they won't help you stop a rax after your Pudge and (carry, lol) Venomancer try to save BH after he runs into a 5v1 at rosh.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-19 at 12:35 PM ----------

    Fuck yeah! Had a game as Rubick where the other team was intelligent and went for me first. Spent the entire game piss poor and get bitched at by our Pudge for having no items. Took me 20 minutes to get boots because I had to spend almost 1k on TP scrolls just to avoid our lanes from feeding.

    We're up against QoP, Razor, Riki, Shadowfiend, and fuck if I can remember the last one, I guess he wasn't important. I tell Pudge several times to get Pipe - he already has Hood, so just finish the Pipe because we're getting constantly shit on by qop and sf ulti and razor's plasma ring. He never gets it and also continues whining about our team constantly dying all the time.

    Later he's whining about Riki right-clicking people into the ground (I think Riki had, like, Daedalus, Hyperstone, and I think he had at least Yasha) and yet he never gets Blademail to counter it.

    He rages at me for not stealing Smoke Bomb (protip: immediately after he Smoke Bombs, Riki Blink Strikes to me so I couldn't steal it even if I wanted to), for not stealing QoP ulti (if she uses ulti, it's after she's blinked on top of me and I'm dead before I can make use of it), for not stealing SF ulti (dead before I can use it.)

    Basically, he plays like shit but places all the blame on his teammates. Yeah, we had a completely worthless Lone Druid and our Bloodseeker wasn't much better. We had a pretty good Ogre Magi, but because neither of them are getting the items they need to be able to handle the enemy team's damage, they can't do anything, and I'm unable to do much because I die so quickly... because my idiot teammates have been feeding all damn game. Best part was when Pudge (judging by how horrifically awkward he sounded while trying to cuss at me, I think he was autistic or something) was nearly screaming at me for not TK'ing Shadowfiend during his ulti... the same SF that had BKB active at the time.

    Funny thing is, the handful of times we managed to cross the river without dying, I was involved every single time. I'm not saying I played perfectly, there were a few deaths where I know I made a mistake and it was completely my fault, but I just get irritated by asshats that insist they played perfectly and blame their team for everything.

    Rubick's still a really fun hero, even if he IS pretty squishy. 1/12/17 ain't too bad, all things considered.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-07-19 at 05:35 PM.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  18. #1698
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    SNiP

    Rubick's still a really fun hero, even if he IS pretty squishy. 1/12/17 ain't too bad, all things considered.
    Played Rubick for the first time last night in my last game of the night... decent hero, but I don't like him at all.

  19. #1699
    Not big on Slithice since her changes (replaced crit with tidal wave). Her ult is also a bit less broken, which is probably one of the biggest reasons she got picked...we will see how she fares in DotA2, but I pretty much never saw her played after her revamp in 1.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  20. #1700
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Why do you think I quit the day I got a DotA2 key?
    Good point. Same happened to me

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