Clinkz is the king of backdooring because you can't get rid of him. You can chase Furion away, Clinkz can hit all 3 lanes so fast that you really can't do much about it but hide in your base waiting for him. Though it's very rare to find a Clinkz who is played well.
I give Furion's strength his ability to turn 2v2 into 2v3 early-mid game. That's about it. If he doesn't use his global pressure to create and win skirmishes early game he almots always falls off and his team usually loses. His ability to push lanes and teleport across the map to force enemy TP scrolls certainly helps drag a game out and give his team time to farm, but, other heroes can do that, too.
Why is M5 even allowed into tournaments? I've watched the past five or six of their games that are on the joinDOTA channel and they're fucking terrible.
---------- Post added 2012-07-29 at 07:16 PM ----------
Rubick can steal Sylla's bear. Yes, it's as awesome as it sounds.
However, there's been a large display of unprofessional people in M5. PGG is the most notorious I guess, with (recently) his early ragequit against Darer, the six minute GG against EHOME, Dreamhack rules being changed due to complaints from PGG and the "ezy"-incident:
I think it's becoming a general rule of pubbing that if they don't speak and understand English at least a little... they're worthless. Even if they're competent at the game, being unable to communicate with them effectively (frantically pinging the map doesn't provide enough info) is a huge liability against competent enemy teams. I seriously don't understand why developers (it's not just Valve) are so paranoid of instituting IP restrictions. If you don't speak English, you really shouldn't be on the US servers, because everyone else on them does speak English. I wouldn't queue on the Brazilian server without speaking Portuguese, so why are they letting them queue on ours without them being able to speak the language? It's so frustrating to lose games because you can't coordinate with half your team because of a language barrier.
I probably would have gg'd as well. A no-carry lineup getting crushed five minutes into the game isn't going to go any other way.
I'm assuming the "ezy" was in a tournament game? Pretty uncalled for from higher level players who should be setting an example for their viewers; probably the main reason allchatting was banned back when I played CAL. Other than that I don't really see the issue, unless you have more examples =p
Last edited by Lysah; 2012-07-30 at 06:11 AM.
уфын is russian for "easy".
I'm not trying to portray M5 or PGG in a bad light, I watched his stream when it was still up and I think he's a good player - with an attitude problem. With Vigoss AWOL since StarLadder, ddd1ms being arrested and PGG in heat over badmouthing, I don't really see any motivation for them to keep their invite to TI2 - I'd much rather see a team like Next.kz instead.
As for "more examples", PGG has a history of this sort of behavior, and M5 has had similar incidents in their League of Legends division. It even went as far as the organization issuing an apology video. At one point the M5 squad flat out refused to practice with PGG. Here's a statement from M5 owner ddd1ms (sorry if you do not speak russian): http://prodota.ru/news/statementfromddd1ms/
To pile on this further, there were accusations of stream cheating - with one particular game in mind: Absolute Legends vs. M5 in The Defense (if I'm not mistaken, which I may be). M5 paused while running to their lanes; aL were planning on level 1 Roshan. One and a half minute later, the game is unpaused - and all M5 players suddenly change their course towards the Rosh pit. I don't know all the facts, but I know there's tons of bad blood between M5 and Darer.
Interesting. I didn't want to assume there was an attitude problem because of one incident, but if it's a recurring theme, then =p
I still don't think rage quitting is necessarily bad manners. The trash talk and potential cheating definitely is, though. I will admit that going into a game meant for practice, screwing around, and quitting ten minutes later is kind of a bad deal.
I agree that a rq does not necessarily equal bad manners - as long as the other team is granted a victory I'd rank it on the same level as calling out GG before the game is really over.
It's also a great stance to have to not judge someone by a single occurrence. In these days people change favourite teams overnight (with the unstable rosters of the top teams, I can understand) - with people screaming at Natus Vincere for throwing aka losing a single game. I think there's a separate thread for every single rq, flame and missed black hole that PGG has displayed over at the JoinDotA site as well as GGnet. It's easy to exaggerate these things.
Well I know first hand that sometimes the game gets to you as well =p
From people killing you and living with single digit health to getting bashlocked to death by a level 1 void to missing the killing auto attack on someone because of a hill, sometimes no matter what you do the game goes right for them and wrong for you and you need to just get up and take a break before another hole appears in the wall =)
I've had my fair share of rage-induced moments in gaming. However, DotA is different. I don't ever solo queue anymore, so that removes most of the cause I suppose. I've probably wrecked more keyboards than what I can remember playing Counter-Strike and Quake 3 Arena. It's great to have a small team of players with whom you can discuss why you lose and how to prevent it from happening again. I'm bordering a thousand games very soon, no left games yet.
The whole Dota 2 pro scene is really unprofessional. If you get payed to play you can atleast be on time for events, fix your computers and not pausing for hours. The pro's have to remember that its the viewers that pay their salaries.
I cant see how Dota 2 or LoL ever would get viewers that dont play the games.
I don't necessarily have a problem with losing because of others (as long as they say something like: 'sorry not my day' or whatever, instead of OMG Y U NO GANK).
I mean...everyone can have a bad day. What annoys me the most is that when someone loses their lane, some other guy starts yelling at them for being the biggest noob in history of DotA (or LoL for that matter). I mean...that guy never lost a lane before? o_O
There was another game where I was solo top as Omniknight and Furion, Dazzle, and Chaos Knight repeatedly tried to gank me and I got away with hardly any damage taken four times in a row.
It's fucking frustrating to be on the receiving end of those stupid little escapes, but it's hilarious when you look at them in hindsight.
---------- Post added 2012-07-30 at 04:36 AM ----------
I point out his items, his KDA, and the fact that he lost his lane to a Pudge that spent most of the game roaming while he stayed in mid as evidence that he's not very good and he then calls me a tryhard.
I don't fucking understand these people, and I understand why their shit attitudes are tolerated even less. Frankly, people like that a cancer in the body of gaming and need to be forcibly removed. If you continually blame everyone and everything but yourself, you will never improve. Yeah, some heroes are genuinely overpowered. Yeah, sometimes you get dealt from the bottom of the deck and get a team of RUs/BRs that suck and can't communicate. Yes, sometimes you really did play well and your team's loss was absolutely not your fault.
But if you continually blame everything and everyone but yourself, you can't criticize your own play and look at places where you could have played better. Sometimes the only reason your team lost was because you kept fucking up in places where, if you hadn't been screwing up, you could have made enough of a difference to win the game anyway, regardless of how bad the rest of your team is.
But seriously, why the fuck are these shitbags tolerated? Why aren't they instantly banned?
It's true to an extent, but no amount of professionalism is going to stop teams from needing a pause from time to time in online tournaments because of a DC or crash. Happens more often in dota partially because the amount of players is greater than, say, SC2.The whole Dota 2 pro scene is really unprofessional. If you get payed to play you can atleast be on time for events, fix your computers and not pausing for hours. The pro's have to remember that its the viewers that pay their salaries.
I cant see how Dota 2 or LoL ever would get viewers that dont play the games.
What you fail to grasp is most teams outside of China and some teams in CIS/SEA don't get paid nearly enough to actually make a decent living out of Dota, even less so do that and invest 1500 into a new computer. For some teams tournament winnings are most of the actual income, and many players need to study or work. I'm not making any more excuses for players, some of them could certainly put more effort into their act, but I do understand that sometimes shit happens.
I've heard it being said quite a few times that having your hobby turned into a job isn't nearly as wonderful as outsiders like to think.
Once I 'have' to do something it's not fun anymore for me.
And if it's your job, you can't just get up and take a break, either. Having a bad day, people living with 1 health? Too bad, you have to put a smile on your face and keep playing because people are watching.
And that's why I'm a casual =p
Yeah, pretty much. I think it would just make bad games more and more frustrating knowing so many people are watching and that more than just a loss is on the line, all the tourney winnings are. I could do it, but I'd rather just keep it casual.