1. #1961
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultraviolet Harmonies View Post
    You do not auto attack in Omnislash unless you get enough IAS.
    I'm pretty sure any late game Jugg can hit this point pretty easily. Maybe not at level 6...
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  2. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I'm pretty sure any late game Jugg can hit this point pretty easily. Maybe not at level 6...
    I'm not certain of the exact math, but I think to unlock auto attacks in Omnislash, you need 30 IAS. Power Treads with any other attack speed bonus should suffice. The more you add, the more attacks you get inside of Omnislash, obviously.

    edit: the new spectator interface during captains mode looks really really promising: http://puu.sh/O7hD
    Last edited by Ultraviolet Harmonies; 2012-08-03 at 03:04 AM.

  3. #1963
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultraviolet Harmonies View Post
    I'm not certain of the exact math, but I think to unlock auto attacks in Omnislash, you need 30 IAS. Power Treads with any other attack speed bonus should suffice. The more you add, the more attacks you get inside of Omnislash, obviously.

    edit: the new spectator interface during captains mode looks really really promising: http://puu.sh/O7hD
    Find out the attack intervals of slashes and you should have you answer =p
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  4. #1964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Thanks for the help everyone.

    Sounds good to know that you don't need any pre-game "items" to be more effective during the game. One thing that is putting me off from LoL is the runes page/runes. Recently I got to know that you can't buy more then one rune pages from IP, meaning a total of three rune pages for "free". You need to pay to get two more to complete all the five roles in the game, mid/carry/sup/top/jungler. I have mid, carry and sup, but can't play top or jungle because I don't have the rune pages (and hence the runes). Have to leave the select screen if I am not able to pick the roles I have runes for. Can't buy rune pages atm because of money issues after starting a business.

    It's also good to know that you don't have to stick to a "meta" and that your build depends on how the game is going, instead of simply building what the "pros" calculated.

    No tanks means that it is the initiator who needs to attack first and it's more of a strategic attacking then spamming your buttons.

    Hoping to enjoy this game and End of Nations (which I got invited too few days ago). Really love games that are much more flexible then "pre-determined" data provided by the "pros".
    There are no Tank's in LoL (Assuming you are talking about LoL since you post in that LoL thread I made like once a week). They are initiators, just like in DotA2. Initiating in DotA2 can be much easier than in LoL, honestly.

    DotA2 is still largely influenced by what goes on at top level play. It's true for any game. Hell, LoL is balanced and designed for all level play. If something is too strong in low level play, Riot will nerf it. DotA2 you could argue doesn't give a shit about low level play and focuses on what these "top players" do. Pubstompers like Ursa are allowed to exist because at those "pro-levels" they are not strong picks. Thus, they are left to ravage lower level games. It is easy to argue the game is much more focused and designed for these "top level players" than you or I.

    The major difference is that in LoL the "Pre-Determined" (Meta, Item Builds, etc) are mathematically proven. The Meta is what it is because it is what is most gold-efficient and sensible. The item builds are because those items give the best Gold-Per Stat. Unlike in DotA, where items have effects and actives that are very difficult to place a cost on, LoL pretty every stat can be broken down in gold costs. DotA2 items get less gold efficient the higher tier you go, while in LoL it's opposite. You can't blame players for building these, and the excuse "a pro does it" is pretty stupid.

    No need to throw LoL under the bus just because you're starting a new game.

  5. #1965
    You have to admit, people play the exact same way every single game has to get old eventually =p

    And the fact that a new player saying "how should I play X" gets immediately responded with "go watch this guide by (insert pro team here)" and that's the ONLY answer kind of sucks.
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  6. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    There are no Tank's in LoL (Assuming you are talking about LoL since you post in that LoL thread I made like once a week). They are initiators, just like in DotA2. Initiating in DotA2 can be much easier than in LoL, honestly.

    DotA2 is still largely influenced by what goes on at top level play. It's true for any game. Hell, LoL is balanced and designed for all level play. If something is too strong in low level play, Riot will nerf it. DotA2 you could argue doesn't give a shit about low level play and focuses on what these "top players" do. Pubstompers like Ursa are allowed to exist because at those "pro-levels" they are not strong picks. Thus, they are left to ravage lower level games. It is easy to argue the game is much more focused and designed for these "top level players" than you or I.

    The major difference is that in LoL the "Pre-Determined" (Meta, Item Builds, etc) are mathematically proven. The Meta is what it is because it is what is most gold-efficient and sensible. The item builds are because those items give the best Gold-Per Stat. Unlike in DotA, where items have effects and actives that are very difficult to place a cost on, LoL pretty every stat can be broken down in gold costs. DotA2 items get less gold efficient the higher tier you go, while in LoL it's opposite. You can't blame players for building these, and the excuse "a pro does it" is pretty stupid.

    No need to throw LoL under the bus just because you're starting a new game.
    shrug, LoL is basically a watered down version of DotA. Even the big pros in LoL have admitted in interviews that they're pretty much playing LoL because it's easy money, easier than if they wanted to use DotA as a source of income. It's not a bad game, but trying to insinuate that it's on the same level as DotA as a competitive MOBA game is dishonest at best.



    DotA's balanced around captains mode played at a high level, where you can choose your picks and bans strategically to prevent certain heroes from appearing in the game on your enemy's team. As a result, there are some frankly overpowered abilities and heroes, with the justification being that you can always pick or ban them so you don't have to play against them. I think that's kind of shitty - because it's no fun playing a single draft or all pick pub game and having to put up with there being no limits on those broken heroes - but it's what works, so whatever.

    I'm not sure why they don't take action on heroes that are consistently appearing as first round picks or bans in nearly every game, though; Lycan, Dark Seer, Nature's Prophet. You could probably also make convincing cases for Chen, Enchantress, and Invoker. It seems to me that if these heroes are appearing consistently in almost every game, regardless of what the teams were playing as (gank-heavy, push-heavy, farm-heavy, etc), then it should be indicative of balance problems that need to be addressed.

    Well, I doubt they're gonna take any action until all the heroes are in, and there won't be any heroes being added until after The International 2 this month, so I guess we'll get used to seeing Furion, Lycan, and Dark Seer in every single game, and Invoker in most. You can pretty much skip the drafting phase and know those three are either picked or banned somewhere :P
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  7. #1967
    I don't consider Lycan to be that strong. It is certainly very difficult to stop him from jungling, so he's virtually guaranteed to get big, but even with items his damage doesn't add up to a lot of other carries imo. If anything, he is picked because he is "safe." He's tough enough to always be useful and to not be countered in his jungle very easily. His ganks are alright, too, and howl is pretty strong.

    Chen and DS and furion are the same, in my opinion. Safe junglers will always be favorite picks, same with safe long lanes (windrunner). It's Invoker they should take a look at, there should not be SUCH a favorite solo mid =p
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  8. #1968
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    shrug, LoL is basically a watered down version of DotA. Even the big pros in LoL have admitted in interviews that they're pretty much playing LoL because it's easy money, easier than if they wanted to use DotA as a source of income. It's not a bad game, but trying to insinuate that it's on the same level as DotA as a competitive MOBA game is dishonest at best.



    DotA's balanced around captains mode played at a high level, where you can choose your picks and bans strategically to prevent certain heroes from appearing in the game on your enemy's team. As a result, there are some frankly overpowered abilities and heroes, with the justification being that you can always pick or ban them so you don't have to play against them. I think that's kind of shitty - because it's no fun playing a single draft or all pick pub game and having to put up with there being no limits on those broken heroes - but it's what works, so whatever.

    I'm not sure why they don't take action on heroes that are consistently appearing as first round picks or bans in nearly every game, though; Lycan, Dark Seer, Nature's Prophet. You could probably also make convincing cases for Chen, Enchantress, and Invoker. It seems to me that if these heroes are appearing consistently in almost every game, regardless of what the teams were playing as (gank-heavy, push-heavy, farm-heavy, etc), then it should be indicative of balance problems that need to be addressed.

    Well, I doubt they're gonna take any action until all the heroes are in, and there won't be any heroes being added until after The International 2 this month, so I guess we'll get used to seeing Furion, Lycan, and Dark Seer in every single game, and Invoker in most. You can pretty much skip the drafting phase and know those three are either picked or banned somewhere :P
    When did I try to insinuate LoL is deeper and more difficult? Nothing in my post suggests that at all. I play both, DotA2 is deeper. There are less restrictions on the player and more options and choices available. Both are fun and I enjoy them, however. One doesn't have to give up the other to play.

  9. #1969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I don't consider Lycan to be that strong. It is certainly very difficult to stop him from jungling, so he's virtually guaranteed to get big, but even with items his damage doesn't add up to a lot of other carries imo. If anything, he is picked because he is "safe." He's tough enough to always be useful and to not be countered in his jungle very easily. His ganks are alright, too, and howl is pretty strong.

    Chen and DS and furion are the same, in my opinion. Safe junglers will always be favorite picks, same with safe long lanes (windrunner). It's Invoker they should take a look at, there should not be SUCH a favorite solo mid =p
    That's why those heroes are so popular - they're all "safe" because they have no real weaknesses. Chen is a natural jungler, pushes well, and ganks well. DS is a safe jungler, can gank effectively, and has immense teamfight presence especially after scepter. Furion we've already mentioned, and like you said Lycan has no real weaknesses either.

    That's all well and good, but I don't think there should be any automatic bans/picks, yet those heroes are almost always banned or picked because they're so strong. That indicates a problem to me.

    Invoker would be fine if they just toned down the damage bonus on Exort I think, and possibly a slight nerf to Quas regen. He's so popular because Exort and Quas means he can never be harassed out of lane, and he's virtually guaranteed to win on CS when Exort is giving him +30 damage over his opponent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-03 at 01:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    When did I try to insinuate LoL is deeper and more difficult? Nothing in my post suggests that at all. I play both, DotA2 is deeper. There are less restrictions on the player and more options and choices available. Both are fun and I enjoy them, however. One doesn't have to give up the other to play.
    I don't really see a point of playing Summoner's Rift when DotA does that, but better. Dominion is really fun, but Riot doesn't balance around it last I heard.
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  10. #1970
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    Why does nobody play Gyro? I played him, and he is ridiculously good at ganking. That missile does massive damage with a massive stun if they run from it, and forces them off of the lane if nobody attacks it, which I rarely see people do. If they run forward to minimize the damage and stun, you can just shoot them, because you are forcing their positioning. Also, rocket barrage does a TON of damage. I had never played him before, but I like him.

  11. #1971
    He's the same kind of hypercarry as any other. Flak cannon + his ultimate gives him ABSURD AoE damage late game, but to farm that isn't the easiest trick in the book. He certainly doesn't farm like other carries can, he doesn't have an escape, and he has no defensive abilities. The biggest carry picks right now are people with invis or blink, gyro just dies if he gets ganked. He's a lot like PL except without images and dopplewalk to distract - that is, you buy manta/STRtreads at level 16 and you STILL only have 1100 health for some reason.

    That said, popping flak and running in with lothar's/radiance/buriza/mjoll/manta/phase for example, the amount of AoE damage you can do in about 1.5 seconds is utterly hilarious. By the time they've reacted to you being there and decide to focus you you've already hit all 5 of their team for a solid 2000 damage. I'm not sure very many, if any, heroes can brag about doing as much total damage as Gyro can, but it's situational, and it's pretty easy to stop (if he goes lothar's you gem and it's immediately 4v5, if he doesn't you can just not let him run into the middle of your team (otherwise you just gank him and he never gets items anyway)).

    My opinions, of course. I like him as a hero and rocket barrage is hilarious early game - like 300 damage solid at level 1 and it only gets better and better. The amount of times you can lure people into "ganking" you and rocket barrage as they run into melee chasing only to turn around and melt their entire health bar for a free kill...glorious. And flak cannon is probably (situationally) the best carry:damage ability in the game.

    Maybe when tuskarr is out people can have fun with his combo with gyro.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-08-03 at 07:42 AM.
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  12. #1972
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    Yeah, Naix kept forgetting about Rocket Barrage early, and he would come out of the jungle and run at me, and use his spell immunity, but since I wasn't slowed I just outran him, then turned on barrage and shot a missile and he was dead. Happened like 2-3 times, was pretty hilarious. Dropping his ult, and having it hit is a metric fuckton of damage though, especially if you don't get focused. I was just waiting until the fight already starting, Lothar'sing in, dropping ult, popping flak cannon and rocket barraging, and missiling the first enemy to run. Was so nasty. I've just only seen 1 other person play him, and thats an rl buddy of mine, so I was confused why nobody plays him. It's true that he is easy to gank, but those ganks can go in his favor too. (Rocket Barrage is REALLY strong.)

    The solo long while Naix jungled was Windrunner, and my lane partner was Tide. She was struggling not to die from Missiles and Gush tide with Rocket Barrage, felt so bad for her.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2012-08-03 at 08:54 AM.

  13. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Yeah, Naix kept forgetting about Rocket Barrage early, and he would come out of the jungle and run at me, and use his spell immunity, but since I wasn't slowed I just outran him, then turned on barrage and shot a missile and he was dead. Happened like 2-3 times, was pretty hilarious. Dropping his ult, and having it hit is a metric fuckton of damage though, especially if you don't get focused. I was just waiting until the fight already starting, Lothar'sing in, dropping ult, popping flak cannon and rocket barraging, and missiling the first enemy to run. Was so nasty. I've just only seen 1 other person play him, and thats an rl buddy of mine, so I was confused why nobody plays him. It's true that he is easy to gank, but those ganks can go in his favor too. (Rocket Barrage is REALLY strong.)

    The solo long while Naix jungled was Windrunner, and my lane partner was Tide. She was struggling not to die from Missiles and Gush tide with Rocket Barrage, felt so bad for her.
    Sounds like a really shitty WR. WR fucking owns suicide solo.
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  14. #1974
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Well, I doubt they're gonna take any action until all the heroes are in
    patch 6.73 6.74 changes were transferred to dota 2


    as i said before if anything you can expect buffs of underplayed heroes
    maybe mana cost adjustment for prophet

    next patch is unofficially announced as content patch

  15. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Sounds like a really shitty WR. WR fucking owns suicide solo.
    She WAS pretty shitty, but not much she could have done to stay on the lane. Missile and rocket barrage are all magical damage, and Windrun doesn't really save her from missile. The tower wouldn't hit the missile enough before it just hit her. But honestly, she wasn't good.

  16. #1976
    If this is how they calculate,

    -> not even first bar is filled

    I call this broken. There is no way I played that shit in that games and won most of them. In fact, I play very aggressively with maiden and mostly win lane, ward when necessary and build support items etc. Briefly, I do what a support supposed to do. Winning majority of those games is not a coincidence. The game is in beta and this is a hard thing to calculate but I hope they will improve it.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-08-03 at 09:40 AM.

  17. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    If this is how they calculate,

    -> not even first bar is filled

    I call this broken. There is no way I played that shit in that games and won most of them. In fact, I play very aggressively with maiden and mostly win lane, ward when necessary and build support items etc. Briefly, I do what a support supposed to do. Winning majority of those games is not a coincidence. The game is in beta and this is a hard thing to calculate but I hope they will improve it.
    I read somewhere on playdota that a guy noticed that when he LOST a game, but still had a good score himself, his bar would fill up more quickly.

  18. #1978
    Quote Originally Posted by Waervyn View Post
    I read somewhere on playdota that a guy noticed that when he LOST a game, but still had a good score himself, his bar would fill up more quickly.
    W/L doesn't effect performance it says. What I'm trying to say their calculation way is broken.

  19. #1979
    after playing dota 2 i think its engine is what is missing and basically "dota" is carrying it

  20. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by starchaser View Post
    after playing dota 2 i think its engine is what is missing and basically "dota" is carrying it
    How so? The engine is just strictly better than Warcraft 3's, IMO.

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