1. #921
    Field Marshal pierakor's Avatar
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    Puppey was acting somewhat arrogent when he said they would win 2-0 without a problem vs MTW but he kinda apologized after the games and said he respects MTW a lot now. Also he said before they would save their real picks/strats for TI2.

    A lot of pros have also said that the european teams are all able to beat each other just based on having a bad or good day because they are mostly the same skill. I still think Navi will go into TI2 as a favourite and most likely win or lose the finals to some asians.
    Last edited by pierakor; 2012-06-19 at 04:18 PM.

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by pierakor View Post
    Puppey was acting somewhat arrogent when he said they would win 2-0 without a problem vs MTW but he kinda apologized after the games and said he respects MTW a lot now. Also he said before they would save their real picks/strats for TI2.

    A lot of pros have also said that the european teams are all able to beat each other just based on having a bad or good day because they are mostly the same skill. I still think Navi will go into TI2 as a favourite and most likely win or lose the finals to some asians.
    I expect Asian domination in TI2

  3. #923
    Lysah, that's navi picking/playing style as of late and in this tournament.

    They pick a strong early-to-mid game lineup, goes around with gangs going wild, grabs kills, establishes utter map dominance, wins the game. let me remind you, they completly STOMPED darer in 1 game and EG in 2 games with the said lineup. versus mTw they finaly found a team that was able to counter their strategy and did so really well.

    But can a team really be called arrogant for finding a style that fits them and playing with it?

  4. #924
    Just getting back into Dota, or more precisely Dota 2. Loving the spectator mode, makes eating dinner so much more enjoyable.

    As for playing, I'm very happy they have two of the three characters converted that I used to play, Krobelus and Bane. Sadly, my favorite character will most likely be the absolute last character converted, the exceptionally controversial Techies. Luvs me some pusher Techies. However, there are a ton of new items (and characters) since last I played, so it's taking me a while to wrap my head around things.

    I just want to thank those who have been leaving some really good links in this thread, as they have been quite helpful.

  5. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Just getting back into Dota, or more precisely Dota 2. Loving the spectator mode, makes eating dinner so much more enjoyable.
    haha! same!

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    It's not even like this was the only match where I could've predicted the winner immediately based on picks.
    It's funny how you keep saying that yet you never elaborate further than "this team had no carry, obvious loss" or something equally stupid. Sorry to spoil this for you, but no one can with certainty tell the winner based on picks, definitely not your or me, and if you think you can make a successful educated guess post about it before the game happens. Or just proclaim yourself a dota god so you dont need to post about how you would have fucking known who was gonna win every time a match is being discussed. Thank you.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  7. #927

  8. #928
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    lol so true ;p
    Russians, everyone's favourite country in Dota 2.....

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It's funny how you keep saying that yet you never elaborate further than "this team had no carry, obvious loss" or something equally stupid. Sorry to spoil this for you, but no one can with certainty tell the winner based on picks, definitely not your or me, and if you think you can make a successful educated guess post about it before the game happens. Or just proclaim yourself a dota god so you dont need to post about how you would have fucking known who was gonna win every time a match is being discussed. Thank you.
    You wanna know the funny thing? She elaborated to me yesterday in steam chat, I guess she just didn't feel like writing it up twice. Hermanni, if anything, you need to sit down and have some chamomile tea.

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    You wanna know the funny thing? She elaborated to me yesterday in steam chat, I guess she just didn't feel like writing it up twice. Hermanni, if anything, you need to sit down and have some chamomile tea.
    Could she also elaborate why navi lost this game 2 with almost the same picks?
    http://www.joindota.com/en/news/3376...-to-the-finals
    Ohh wait they didn't.absolutly don't want to sound arrogant or nothing, and don't want to start any hate, but Hermanni is right there, it's hard to imposible to deduce a winner from picks alone. Unless it's ery obvious outpick.

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    You wanna know the funny thing? She elaborated to me yesterday in steam chat, I guess she just didn't feel like writing it up twice. Hermanni, if anything, you need to sit down and have some chamomile tea.
    I don't actually give a damn if he can predict the winner 95% of the time and write an essay about it, but as long as he doesn't do it I'm not interested in hearing about it once or twice or on every bleeding page.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Jangri- View Post
    Could she also elaborate why navi lost this game 2 with almost the same picks?
    http://www.joindota.com/en/news/3376...-to-the-finals
    Ohh wait they didn't.absolutly don't want to sound arrogant or nothing, and don't want to start any hate, but Hermanni is right there, it's hard to imposible to deduce a winner from picks alone. Unless it's ery obvious outpick.
    I'm gonna go along the lines of "The enemy team only had Slardar to carry and he can't carry alone." I don't have extensive DotA knowledge but I'm thinking that's what she'd say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    I don't actually give two shits if he can predict the winner 95% of the time and elaborate it, but as long as he doesn't do it I'm not interested in hearing about it once or twice or on every fucking page.
    Wow you really need that chamomile tea. Could someone bring it over before he starts boiling as well?

  13. #933
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    I'm gonna go along the lines of "The enemy team only had Slardar to carry and he can't carry alone." I don't have extensive DotA knowledge but I'm thinking that's what she'd say.
    No, sorry. That won't cut. By your logic, the more of carry the better. Doesn;t work that way. Besides, im talking game2. Where they got Lone, and if lone can't carry, who can...

  14. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by Jangri- View Post
    No, sorry. That won't cut. By your logic, the more of carry the better. Doesn;t work that way.
    Obviously "They needed more carries for that team setup to work" means "Every team should be 5 hardcarries."

    Besides, im talking game2. Where they got Lone, and if lone can't carry, who can...
    Jahapp. Well, honestly, I couldn't tell you, like I've stated before I don't have very extensive DotA knowledge it's very possible that EG just played horribly for all I know.

  15. #935
    only way to guess the result of a competitive game that is between two of the best teams is picks.

    it iz known

    Coordination is even more important than picks(assuming professional players are not retards and they make balanced picks) but that is not a thing that one can guess. I mean %50 chance to guess winner is pretty high and with a little DotA knowledge it can be even more accurate.

  16. #936
    The information is out there to calculate win percent of heroes. I can predict that the team with Lycan will win more than the team without Lycan that doesn't give me any particular insight into their picks or strategy like Lysah hints at but doesn't entirely justify

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by Jangri- View Post
    But can a team really be called arrogant for finding a style that fits them and playing with it?
    Yes, yes they can. When they think that the same strategy that beat a team or two will beat every team because it's THEIR strategy.

    @Hermanni
    Yes, I can. You don't have to understand, play DotA for another ten years and maybe you will.

    EG Game 1 - No carry whatsoever. Broodmother is easily one of the worst agilities in the game, her only strength is the absurd amount of power she has early on in the game. Even with items it's extremely easy to beat her skull in late game with any other carry. NS is a good support carry but he, like other support carries (slardar) is NOT good as the only melee on the team. He needs time to run around and mess things up, which does not happen when he's the only focus target.

    EG Game 2 - Syllabear counterpicked by NS/invoker combo. Don't really need to go into more detail than that.


    @hailey
    Those stats are based on all players, which takes into account a huge majority of low skill players. Its skews the percentages toward easy heroes and against harder ones.



    Most games are over at picks, barring extraordinary play by both teams. What you have to realize is that all of these teams are full of very good players. They don't make many mistakes, if any, in a single game. They play heroes close to the maximum of their potential. What's more, and the reason they're professional teams, they play as 5 extremely well and possibly better than anyone else in the world. If this is true of both teams, the winner WILL come down to picks. Unless someone has a bad day.

    If all 10 heroes are played to their maximum potential, the better team of 5 wins. This isn't difficult logic, and it's why I can predict the outcome of high level matches from picks. Trust my judgement or not, I'll still be able to sleep tonight.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-06-20 at 01:19 AM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  18. #938
    Many teams make mistakes in dota 2 lol. More games are thrown than won out of perfect play losing on picks. You can't say Navi lost on picks when Puppy played as awful as he did in game 3. You're really condescending. I guess that's par for Dota discussion.

    And you can look at tournament stats you don't have to look at pub win percentages. Anyone can look at picks and give an edge to one team. Keep predicting games in hindsight though.

    Oh and lycan has something like a 80% tournament win rate whenever he's not banned. I guess I'll impress my friends by predicting on picks next time
    Last edited by hailey; 2012-06-20 at 01:27 AM.

  19. #939
    And I'm being condescending. I guess that's par for Dota discussion.

    Like I've also said repeatedly, everyone in this thread makes assumptions when they post. Because this is MMOC and you don't see my name up in lights you assume I'm some average idiot. Sorry to burst your bubble. I'm more than perfectly willing to assume anyone else here is also tournament tier, however, the way people argue with me proves they are not.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  20. #940
    That's the thing I remember from playing original Dota. People counter pick you so fucking hard some days. Random games don't help either because you just get absurb combinations. Didn't play much CM so can't say about that. I wonder if CM is better?

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