[Megathread] DotA 2

[Finear]

Counts as harassment. Are you saying that harassment should be tolerated?

its not harassment
for me trashtalk is just part of dota
of course im not flaming hardcore but a little bit of trolling is always nice

e.g. my friend is playing mid pudge so i start talking to his opponent
while hes responding pudge can easily hook him ;p

[Hermanni]

Not for every game, but for a game like Dota, where you're stuck in a game with four other people for 30-45 minutes and are punished for leaving early? Yeah, I think it matters, enough so that I think the game's score should take the community into account.

And? Do you see game reviewers say they launched up latest cod and somebody called them a faggot, game score 4/10? Do you think there's a magic button the game developers can press to make the community better? Let's forget about working on the tutorials and new hero ports, let's just ban everyone this shitkid pizzashark reports and him too when he finally snaps and rages at someone, that way we'll have a dead game in no time.

Why? Because I expect people on the internet to treat each other with some fucking decency and civility?

No, it's because you're just as bad as everyone you ever reported but pretend like you're better than them. Like you're entitled to cleaner community when all you do is bitch and moan about it and abuse the report system.

Counts as harassment. Are you saying that harassment should be tolerated?

Yes, you should tolerate harassment to some degree or stay away from communicating with anonymous strangers. Or if you actually get pissed off at a mild comment that moderately offends your supposed gaming skill and want to waste someones time reviewing another piece of shit report you should just play with bots. Probably better than your normal hell tier MM too if LPQ is better. In your case you should probably stay away from communicating with anyone, for their sake.

[PizzaSHARK]

And? Do you see game reviewers say they launched up latest cod and somebody called them a faggot, game score 4/10? Do you think there's a magic button the game developers can press to make the community better? Let's forget about working on the tutorials and new hero ports, let's just ban everyone this shitkid pizzashark reports and him too when he finally snaps and rages at someone, that way we'll have a dead game in no time.

Do you think gaming communities will be better if the developers simply don't give a shit, if they don't make any effort to try and weed out the douchebags and griefers? Do you really think that there'd be as much tolerance or apathy towards it if people really knew, knew, the dev cared enough to take action against people that can't be civil?

No, it's because you're just as bad as everyone you ever reported but pretend like you're better than them. Like you're entitled to cleaner community when all you do is bitch and moan about it and abuse the report system.

You talk a lot of shit for someone who's never even known me. I don't fucking rage at people, I don't fucking attack them like you do. If I have a problem with them, I mute them and report them and continue on my way. It's not worth getting angry or even mildly irritated over. That doesn't mean I think it's something that's not worth working towards doing something about.

Yes, you should tolerate harassment to some degree or stay away from communicating with anonymous strangers. Or if you actually get pissed off at a mild comment that moderately offends your supposed gaming skill and want to waste someones time reviewing another piece of shit report you should just play with bots. Probably better than your normal hell tier MM too if LPQ is better. In your case you should probably stay away from communicating with anyone, for their sake.

I like how you actually think there's an MMR system in place, or that it means jack shit. I guess if you crave the need to feel superior to people, it's there. Otherwise, I've noticed no difference between first page games and my games other than my games don't have the occasional odd pro player drop in to poop on everyone.

At any rate, I'm really wondering why you're so apathetic about people not having any fucking civility or decency in games. Do you think that because you're sitting in front of a computer screen, you aren't interacting with other people? Or do you lie to yourself and everyone else and act like a massive twat online because you know you're shielded by anonymity?

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 06:17 PM ----------

its not harassment
for me trashtalk is just part of dota
of course im not flaming hardcore but a little bit of trolling is always nice

It can be fun, but there's a line between taking the piss out and actively attacking someone.

It's pretty simple to understand where that line is: would you say what you want to say to someone's face?

e.g. my friend is playing mid pudge so i start talking to his opponent
while hes responding pudge can easily hook him ;p

Pff, everyone knows to stay at least 1500 range away from Pudge when they feel the need to say something in allchat

[Hermanni]

I like how you actually think there's an MMR system in place, or that it means jack shit.

I like your subtle implication that there isn't one and that it doesn't work when anyone who's played the game knows better.

I don't think much of myself as a player, but my method of improving the community consists of trying to set a good example in the games I play in, reporting people who actually should be reported, and I get the pop-up fairly often when I've done so. Which I'm sure is 1000 times more productive than moaning on forums because the community its sooo toxic all fucking scumbag douchebags and trolls and russians fuck this gameid see this guy feeds and blames teams fuck that guy why is he allowed to play the game why can scumbags breathe same air as me fuck report so toxic why doesn't valve ban everyone to stop this toxic thing i mean my face is so poisonously toxic fuuuuuck.

[Lysah]

You really are overly obsessed with this Manni.

[PizzaSHARK]

I like your subtle implication that there isn't one and that it doesn't work when anyone who's played the game knows better.

Oh, I know there's an MMR system. I'm saying that it doesn't mean jack shit, because you see garbage players in first-page games very consistently.

[Lysah]

Well you get an MMR penalty for queueing with friends, it gets worse as team size gets bigger. The front page of games is nearly guaranteed to be teams of 4 or 5. It's always nice, for me, to solo queue and see 450 spectators notification pop up and know that I just rolled my way into some annoying miniskrim.

If you have a team of 5 you don't have to be the best players to get the top page, but your MMR would still have to be reasonably high. Theoretically that means you are at least decent, if you see bad play in a top game it's more likely the person is just screwing around, in my opinion. I've definitely been in 800 spectator games where my entire team randomed and got four carries so SF decided to go aura/stats and buy support items/etc.

Most of my games someone on either team is just absolutely horrid and does not deserve to be in the game with the rest of us, that tends to be how matchmaking balances games. In my experience with page 1 games, though, there is rarely someone who just flat out doesn't fit skill wise. At least, more rare than page 2-10 games.

[PizzaSHARK]

I've seen evenly matched games but I've also seen a lot of games where there was a Leoric who skilled aura and crit before stun and built Sange and Yasha, or a Clockwerk that did nothing but feed and talked shit all game. I guess it's possible these types are just having a bad game, but it most of the time it seems like the mistakes and errors they're making aren't due to just a momentary lapse in judgement.

[Wapetufo]

Hi guys, I goe invited to the beta a couple of weeks ago, but unfortunately my PC at the time could not run it well (yeah it was trash). I have another pc now, however I've run into a problem. My steam library was empty on the new pc, even after verification, I searched "Dota 2" in the store and it said I already owned the game (I assumed because of the beta), I downloaded it but it's only the spectator client and apparently I need to purchase the game. Has something changed? is the beta over? Or is this a bug?

I was getting help then suddenly people stopped and started arguing over a review, I really want to play

[Zefie]

I was getting help then suddenly people stopped and started arguing over a review, I really want to play

We can't help you, contact Steam support.

[Hermanni]

Oh, I know there's an MMR system. I'm saying that it doesn't mean jack shit, because you see garbage players in first-page games very consistently.

Same as hon, it's the shit tier players who claim MMR doesn't mean anything. Anyone who's played at multiple tiers can tell the difference and vaguely remembering seeing players who were "bad" in front page games doesn't really work as a basis for anything.

In HoN everything that had to do with MMR was visible, and when you went from the 1800 or 1900 rated games to your smurf account to play with your 1600 rated friend you'd see games full of people telling you about how MM is broken and rating doesn't mean anything and saying how even after 1500 games they were still 1600-rated only because their teammates were always bad. And I used to stomp with Juggernaut mid rushing blink dagger and aghanims every game at 80-90% winrate, something I couldn't do and get away with on my main account but hey, MMR didn't mean shit.

The fact that the numbers aren't there just makes people disillusioned as hell in dota 2. There was an interview with Eric Johnson in TI2 where he said he constantly gets email from people asking him to up their rating because they're always better than their teammates. He'd do that, upping them from say the 40th percentile up to the 60th and then he'd check back in a few weeks and they'd almost always be back right where they were before he upped their ratings.

[Lysah]

Can I email him and ask him to lower mine? I'm really tired of the massive tryhard at my MMR level and the fact that I can't play with ANY of my friends because the people we get matched with will flat out facestomp them. That's probably my biggest complaint, I guess. One player doing well is NOT equal to one player doing piss poor in a game.

I guess what I'd really prefer is AR to be added. So bored of the same 15 heroes in every single game.

[Hermanni]

I know the feeling, some of my friends sometimes refuse to play with me because they don't want to get stomped on. Then again there really isn't a good solution to skill disparity to people you play with because if you get a smurf account it's really unfair to the people you play against.

I don't know about picking same 15 heroes though. I had a losing streak of 5 or 6 games and reverted to picking Clockwerk every game and won 8 games in a row or something, 2 or 3 them being frontpage games. The tryhard sentiment is pretty old though, I enjoy playing support and usually take it as a compliment.

[PizzaSHARK]

Can I email him and ask him to lower mine? I'm really tired of the massive tryhard at my MMR level and the fact that I can't play with ANY of my friends because the people we get matched with will flat out facestomp them. That's probably my biggest complaint, I guess. One player doing well is NOT equal to one player doing piss poor in a game.

I guess what I'd really prefer is AR to be added. So bored of the same 15 heroes in every single game.

Do you play AP? I pretty much play nothing but SD and RD... sometimes you get completely screwed and the enemy team gets naga and lycan or dark seer or profit while your team just got average picks, but generally it's more fun. I mostly avoid AP because it's harder for parties to cheese games when they can't be guaranteed their favorite picks.

[Lysah]

Do you play AP? I pretty much play nothing but SD and RD... sometimes you get completely screwed and the enemy team gets naga and lycan or dark seer or profit while your team just got average picks, but generally it's more fun. I mostly avoid AP because it's harder for parties to cheese games when they can't be guaranteed their favorite picks.

I have started only playing SD but it's only marginally better. 30 heroes carded total out of only 90 in the game? Means a 1/3 chance you'll see invoker in the game because you know whoever gets him is just flat out going to pick him. I pretty much only random now unless I'm playing with friends (who I know are going to have a kda of 1:10 at best) and need to carry hard, I find if I can force everyone else to random as well my win rate goes up a lot.

I used to play RD in DotA but without all the heroes in the game it feels pointless.

@Manni
Kind of answered your post too but I'll just add that I mostly see the same heroes in solo queue. Invoker especially is in every-single-game. Other extremely frequent picks are what you'd expect. Wolf, Furion, Morph, etc.

[PizzaSHARK]

I have started only playing SD but it's only marginally better. 30 heroes carded total out of only 90 in the game? Means a 1/3 chance you'll see invoker in the game because you know whoever gets him is just flat out going to pick him. I pretty much only random now unless I'm playing with friends (who I know are going to have a kda of 1:10 at best) and need to carry hard, I find if I can force everyone else to random as well my win rate goes up a lot.

I used to play RD in DotA but without all the heroes in the game it feels pointless.

@Manni
Kind of answered your post too but I'll just add that I mostly see the same heroes in solo queue. Invoker especially is in every-single-game. Other extremely frequent picks are what you'd expect. Wolf, Furion, Morph, etc.

It at least feels like there are fewer idiots in RD and SD, I don't know if it's true or not. Does seem like I get fewer BRs/RUs, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

And yeah, it sucks when SD screws you or your team on picks. Multiple times I've had three supports or three carries, and it's really frustrating if your team is already heavy on carries, or heavy on not-carries (I won't call them supports because few pubs are willing to actually play as a support.) That, or the enemy team will get much stronger heroes than your team got... it's really frustrating when the enemy team gets something like Naga (and that goddamn bullshit ulti) or a Lycan that knows what necrobook is and your team went full retard and picked Spiritbreaker and Bloodseeker.

[Lysah]

Hey Bloodseeker is a great hero. A permanent silence for one of their casters and a "fuck you" ultimate. Combined as a support carry who's laning can't really be stopped.

I would argue SB is a great hero as well, his ganking is phenomenal, but good players can stop him from farming way too easily.

[PizzaSHARK]

Hey Bloodseeker is a great hero. A permanent silence for one of their casters and a "fuck you" ultimate. Combined as a support carry who's laning can't really be stopped.

I would argue SB is a great hero as well, his ganking is phenomenal, but good players can stop him from farming way too easily.

I do think Bloodseeker is underrated, but compared to the strength of Naga (who has a "fuck your entire team" ultimate on a ridiculous cooldown at level 16) and a Lycan that knows what necrobook is?

SB would be a fantastic hero if BKB/Repel didn't completely counter him. His ulti needs to stun through BKB or something, I think he'd actually be a viable hero if that happened.

[Lysah]

I will admit, the cooldown on Slithice ult at level 3 is just hilarious. The infamous sleep/TP scroll allows her to infinitely split push and you really just can't do anything about it when her ult has the same cooldown as the TP scroll.

I also agree that SB ult needs to stun BKBs even if it doesn't do damage anymore. I was surprised when you said it didn't, I could've sworn it did. I tested it and laughed pretty hard when I saw it did literally nothing but teleport him to the target. Still, as early as level 7 he can max his charge and become one scary ganker. Between charge and ult alone he can stun someone for near 5 seconds and provides allies with the movespeed to make following up on the chase, if they even survive that, easy. He also comes pre-equipped with enough tankability to survive a little bit of focus or tower diving as early as level 7. The second he hits 6 he should be getting kills across the map, hands down. Most heroes can't do a lot about it if his teammates are paying attention to the ganks.

Basically, what I'm hearing is that this current meta needs more gank carries =p
Farming heroes to get big used to be such a common trend. Luna, BS, SB, SA, Fletch, Weaver, Razor.

[PizzaSHARK]

SB would be a great pick if he fit into the meta better, and wasn't hard countered by magic immunity. MoM is really common on him, but in my opinion it's a lot better to get a quick BKB after the essentials so they can't stop you from charging them, and then follow that up with a Mjollnir for some magic damage, some AOE for pushing/counterpushing, and the attack speed. Maelstrom's really cheap so it could be a midway item to get between your essentials and finishing BKB.