[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

I was getting help then suddenly people stopped and started arguing over a review, I really want to play

We can't help you, contact Steam support.

[Hermanni]

Oh, I know there's an MMR system. I'm saying that it doesn't mean jack shit, because you see garbage players in first-page games very consistently.

Same as hon, it's the shit tier players who claim MMR doesn't mean anything. Anyone who's played at multiple tiers can tell the difference and vaguely remembering seeing players who were "bad" in front page games doesn't really work as a basis for anything.

In HoN everything that had to do with MMR was visible, and when you went from the 1800 or 1900 rated games to your smurf account to play with your 1600 rated friend you'd see games full of people telling you about how MM is broken and rating doesn't mean anything and saying how even after 1500 games they were still 1600-rated only because their teammates were always bad. And I used to stomp with Juggernaut mid rushing blink dagger and aghanims every game at 80-90% winrate, something I couldn't do and get away with on my main account but hey, MMR didn't mean shit.

The fact that the numbers aren't there just makes people disillusioned as hell in dota 2. There was an interview with Eric Johnson in TI2 where he said he constantly gets email from people asking him to up their rating because they're always better than their teammates. He'd do that, upping them from say the 40th percentile up to the 60th and then he'd check back in a few weeks and they'd almost always be back right where they were before he upped their ratings.

[Lysah]

Can I email him and ask him to lower mine? I'm really tired of the massive tryhard at my MMR level and the fact that I can't play with ANY of my friends because the people we get matched with will flat out facestomp them. That's probably my biggest complaint, I guess. One player doing well is NOT equal to one player doing piss poor in a game.

I guess what I'd really prefer is AR to be added. So bored of the same 15 heroes in every single game.

[Hermanni]

I know the feeling, some of my friends sometimes refuse to play with me because they don't want to get stomped on. Then again there really isn't a good solution to skill disparity to people you play with because if you get a smurf account it's really unfair to the people you play against.

I don't know about picking same 15 heroes though. I had a losing streak of 5 or 6 games and reverted to picking Clockwerk every game and won 8 games in a row or something, 2 or 3 them being frontpage games. The tryhard sentiment is pretty old though, I enjoy playing support and usually take it as a compliment.

[PizzaSHARK]

Can I email him and ask him to lower mine? I'm really tired of the massive tryhard at my MMR level and the fact that I can't play with ANY of my friends because the people we get matched with will flat out facestomp them. That's probably my biggest complaint, I guess. One player doing well is NOT equal to one player doing piss poor in a game.

I guess what I'd really prefer is AR to be added. So bored of the same 15 heroes in every single game.

Do you play AP? I pretty much play nothing but SD and RD... sometimes you get completely screwed and the enemy team gets naga and lycan or dark seer or profit while your team just got average picks, but generally it's more fun. I mostly avoid AP because it's harder for parties to cheese games when they can't be guaranteed their favorite picks.

[Lysah]

Do you play AP? I pretty much play nothing but SD and RD... sometimes you get completely screwed and the enemy team gets naga and lycan or dark seer or profit while your team just got average picks, but generally it's more fun. I mostly avoid AP because it's harder for parties to cheese games when they can't be guaranteed their favorite picks.

I have started only playing SD but it's only marginally better. 30 heroes carded total out of only 90 in the game? Means a 1/3 chance you'll see invoker in the game because you know whoever gets him is just flat out going to pick him. I pretty much only random now unless I'm playing with friends (who I know are going to have a kda of 1:10 at best) and need to carry hard, I find if I can force everyone else to random as well my win rate goes up a lot.

I used to play RD in DotA but without all the heroes in the game it feels pointless.

@Manni
Kind of answered your post too but I'll just add that I mostly see the same heroes in solo queue. Invoker especially is in every-single-game. Other extremely frequent picks are what you'd expect. Wolf, Furion, Morph, etc.

[PizzaSHARK]

I have started only playing SD but it's only marginally better. 30 heroes carded total out of only 90 in the game? Means a 1/3 chance you'll see invoker in the game because you know whoever gets him is just flat out going to pick him. I pretty much only random now unless I'm playing with friends (who I know are going to have a kda of 1:10 at best) and need to carry hard, I find if I can force everyone else to random as well my win rate goes up a lot.

I used to play RD in DotA but without all the heroes in the game it feels pointless.

@Manni
Kind of answered your post too but I'll just add that I mostly see the same heroes in solo queue. Invoker especially is in every-single-game. Other extremely frequent picks are what you'd expect. Wolf, Furion, Morph, etc.

It at least feels like there are fewer idiots in RD and SD, I don't know if it's true or not. Does seem like I get fewer BRs/RUs, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

And yeah, it sucks when SD screws you or your team on picks. Multiple times I've had three supports or three carries, and it's really frustrating if your team is already heavy on carries, or heavy on not-carries (I won't call them supports because few pubs are willing to actually play as a support.) That, or the enemy team will get much stronger heroes than your team got... it's really frustrating when the enemy team gets something like Naga (and that goddamn bullshit ulti) or a Lycan that knows what necrobook is and your team went full retard and picked Spiritbreaker and Bloodseeker.

[Lysah]

Hey Bloodseeker is a great hero. A permanent silence for one of their casters and a "fuck you" ultimate. Combined as a support carry who's laning can't really be stopped.

I would argue SB is a great hero as well, his ganking is phenomenal, but good players can stop him from farming way too easily.

[PizzaSHARK]

Hey Bloodseeker is a great hero. A permanent silence for one of their casters and a "fuck you" ultimate. Combined as a support carry who's laning can't really be stopped.

I would argue SB is a great hero as well, his ganking is phenomenal, but good players can stop him from farming way too easily.

I do think Bloodseeker is underrated, but compared to the strength of Naga (who has a "fuck your entire team" ultimate on a ridiculous cooldown at level 16) and a Lycan that knows what necrobook is?

SB would be a fantastic hero if BKB/Repel didn't completely counter him. His ulti needs to stun through BKB or something, I think he'd actually be a viable hero if that happened.

[Lysah]

I will admit, the cooldown on Slithice ult at level 3 is just hilarious. The infamous sleep/TP scroll allows her to infinitely split push and you really just can't do anything about it when her ult has the same cooldown as the TP scroll.

I also agree that SB ult needs to stun BKBs even if it doesn't do damage anymore. I was surprised when you said it didn't, I could've sworn it did. I tested it and laughed pretty hard when I saw it did literally nothing but teleport him to the target. Still, as early as level 7 he can max his charge and become one scary ganker. Between charge and ult alone he can stun someone for near 5 seconds and provides allies with the movespeed to make following up on the chase, if they even survive that, easy. He also comes pre-equipped with enough tankability to survive a little bit of focus or tower diving as early as level 7. The second he hits 6 he should be getting kills across the map, hands down. Most heroes can't do a lot about it if his teammates are paying attention to the ganks.

Basically, what I'm hearing is that this current meta needs more gank carries =p
Farming heroes to get big used to be such a common trend. Luna, BS, SB, SA, Fletch, Weaver, Razor.

[PizzaSHARK]

SB would be a great pick if he fit into the meta better, and wasn't hard countered by magic immunity. MoM is really common on him, but in my opinion it's a lot better to get a quick BKB after the essentials so they can't stop you from charging them, and then follow that up with a Mjollnir for some magic damage, some AOE for pushing/counterpushing, and the attack speed. Maelstrom's really cheap so it could be a midway item to get between your essentials and finishing BKB.

[Aleksej89]

A word of warning to all who consider trying out DOTA 2 when it comes out, this game has nothing to do with LoL as far as gameplay goes.

In HoN any hero, even a mage like Veigar or a healer like Soraka, can get fed and "out dps" carries - not just that, but in LoL every hero can scale very well and benefits greatly from items.

In Dota (and dota 2) support type of heroes are expected (and even demanded) to spend even over 80% of their gold income (which is VERY low) on wards, potions, teleport scrolls, other consumables - not just for themselves, but for all the carries/gankers that need to save up their own money.

You, as a support/initiator/pusher and even a ganker, are expected to give gold, limb and life to protect and serve your carry - who in turn will carry you to victory, assuming he knows what he is doing.
It is a specific and potentially infuriating experience, since (as a non-carry) you are literally less important - even a lesser life form - than your carry.

Hence the saying goes, LoL is for casuals (where everyone wants a "kinda equal" role/chance/importance in the team) while Dota is for a tad more dedicated crowd that do not mind doing 45 minutes of "slaving" to your carry in order to win.

[Deleted]

Maybe if you're trying really hard to be a babysitter but in my experience when it comes to pub play, supports are far, far, far more, shall I say "independent" in DotA than in LoL. A wardbitch Sona will contribute a lot less to a fight, both when it comes to damage and when it comes to actual 'support' than say a Witch Doctor or Rhasta.

The only exception to supports being "independent" really is when you get to really lategame where you've basically got carries killing people left and right without even trying but even in LoL, a Sona by 50 minutes wouldn't expect a lot more than 2 aura items and maybe a Rabadon's or Rylai's at best.

TLDR: Supports in LoL are weakasfuck.

[Lysah]

I just played rhasta yesterday. Dat 19-19-X score. Couldn't hold team up long enough for PL to end the game, though we got close with 3 dead weight allies.

[Deleted]

In Dota (and dota 2) support type of heroes are expected (and even demanded) to spend even over 80% of their gold income (which is VERY low) on wards, potions, teleport scrolls, other consumables - not just for themselves, but for all the carries/gankers that need to save up their own money.

You, as a support/initiator/pusher and even a ganker, are expected to give gold, limb and life to protect and serve your carry - who in turn will carry you to victory, assuming he knows what he is doing.
It is a specific and potentially infuriating experience, since (as a non-carry) you are literally less important - even a lesser life form - than your carry.

This is pretty much exactly the same as LoL, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[PizzaSHARK]

A word of warning to all who consider trying out DOTA 2 when it comes out, this game has nothing to do with LoL as far as gameplay goes.

In HoN any hero, even a mage like Veigar or a healer like Soraka, can get fed and "out dps" carries - not just that, but in LoL every hero can scale very well and benefits greatly from items.

In Dota (and dota 2) support type of heroes are expected (and even demanded) to spend even over 80% of their gold income (which is VERY low) on wards, potions, teleport scrolls, other consumables - not just for themselves, but for all the carries/gankers that need to save up their own money.

You, as a support/initiator/pusher and even a ganker, are expected to give gold, limb and life to protect and serve your carry - who in turn will carry you to victory, assuming he knows what he is doing.
It is a specific and potentially infuriating experience, since (as a non-carry) you are literally less important - even a lesser life form - than your carry.

Hence the saying goes, LoL is for casuals (where everyone wants a "kinda equal" role/chance/importance in the team) while Dota is for a tad more dedicated crowd that do not mind doing 45 minutes of "slaving" to your carry in order to win.

In pubs supports rarely play as pure babysitters. In fact a lot of supports are extremely aggressive and spend a very large amount of their time roaming for ganks or participating in a trilane setup, which is basically designed to murder the enemy hero(es) in that lane.

More, because spells in Dota are strong compared to HP levels (as opposed to LoL, where you have to stack AD or AP in order to bolster spells to keep up with hero HP levels), all "true" supports are relatively item-independent, which is what allows them to let their carries get all the farm while still being useful.

And, no, a support cannot out-carry a carry in the late game, and this is by design - it's partly to make up for supports being comparatively strong for the first half of the game, where carries tend to be little more than glorified melee creeps/ranged creeps.

[Lysah]

Supports with reliable stuns can always match a carry without one depending on items. See what a guinsoo/eth/dagon 5/scepter/refresher Lina or Lion can do to a carry some day. Will anyone ever farm that in game? No...but that doesn't mean supports can't be retarded strong late game, they just aren't. Because they don't need to be. A Lion with all of that might be able to do 18,000 damage to somebody before they can even fight back but it doesn't matter, he will do relatively piss damage to towers compared to a Slithice of the same gold.

[Kaynot]

And, no, a support cannot out-carry a carry in the late game, and this is by design - it's partly to make up for supports being comparatively strong for the first half of the game, where carries tend to be little more than glorified melee creeps/ranged creeps.

Some "supports" like Shadow Demon,Dark Seer,Invoker,very lucky Ogre Magi with Dagon 5 or Krob actually could do that

[Jangri-]

It is a specific and potentially infuriating experience, since (as a non-carry) you are literally less important - even a lesser life form - than your carry.

I really REALLY disagree with you there.

I'm an long time support player, and for me the role is rewarding, and not once in games I've felt like a lesser life form. Warding the shit out of everything to control map, harassing enemy heroes back in lane and buying your carry the gold that he fucking loves, helping you mid with rune-control, potentialy(depends on heroes) disabling/locking out of fights the enemy heroes. There is so much one can do as support, and seeing you carry get ultrakill at 35 minutes and knowing that you got him there is imho more rewarding expieriance that actualy getting the ultrakill with carry. But maybe that's just me.

"supports" like ... ,Dark Seer,Invoker,very lucky Ogre Magi with Dagon 5 or Krob actually could do that

Supports with dagon 5. Okay, doom is coming @ 21st December, I'm convinced.

[Strah]

Supports with reliable stuns can always match a carry without one depending on items. See what a guinsoo/eth/dagon 5/scepter/refresher Lina or Lion can do to a carry some day. Will anyone ever farm that in game? No...but that doesn't mean supports can't be retarded strong late game, they just aren't. Because they don't need to be. A Lion with all of that might be able to do 18,000 damage to somebody before they can even fight back but it doesn't matter, he will do relatively piss damage to towers compared to a Slithice of the same gold.

Except that neither Lina or Lion are supports.
And Lina hasn't got a particularly reliable stun.