1. #2761
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    23 minute loss, then a 19 minute win, and then a horrible stomp by a party of players against a bunch of randoms. Matchmaking's been kinda spotty lately :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  2. #2762
    Legendary! llDemonll's Avatar
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    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something
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  3. #2763
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    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something
    Yeah, pubstomps are apparently a thing. I don't really mind, it's a fun challenge trying to basically solo or duo against an entire team, but it's really annoying when the worst player on their team runs his mouth all game (1/3/2 omniknight) as if it's him and not their ball-crushingly good invoker that was carrying their team.

    And then my next game was a 14/2/17 win with Lich. I dunno, it's still Dota so it's still fun but I wish the MM system would do a better job of evenly matching teams... stomping and getting stomped gets kinda boring after a while.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  4. #2764
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    23 minute loss, then a 19 minute win, and then a horrible stomp by a party of players against a bunch of randoms. Matchmaking's been kinda spotty lately :-/
    First rain and now mist, weather's been kinda spotty lately.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-27 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    ^ MM is always spotty. The thing I dislike the most is that MM won't even try and pair parties together it seems. never makes for fun games unless i'm in the mood to party with friends and destroy a game because i've had a bad day or something
    How do you know it hasn't tried? People flip out like crazy because there seems to be some general assumption that people who prefer to queue with friends somehow become unbeatable. I queue very often in a 5-man stack, but the skill range within the party usually ranges from almost complete beginners to 5+ year veterans and often 1-2 guys that aren't even connected to VOIP. And then 2-5 of us random. Depending on the party we usually lose a lot more than we win but it's hilarious how angry people get over the fact that they're facing a ragtag group of friends who obviously are made unbeatable by the magic of the "premade."

    I don't really care if I'm in solo queue against 5-man premade, but that's extremely rare and usually there's a party of 3-4 players on my side.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-09-27 at 09:00 PM.

  5. #2765
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    How do you know it hasn't tried? People flip out like crazy because there seems to be some general assumption that people who prefer to queue with friends somehow become unbeatable. I queue very often in a 5-man stack, but the skill range within the party usually ranges from almost complete beginners to 5+ year veterans and often 1-2 guys that aren't even connected to VOIP. And then 2-5 of us random. Depending on the party we usually lose a lot more than we win but it's hilarious how angry people get over the fact that they're facing a ragtag group of friends who obviously are made unbeatable by the magic of the "premade."

    I don't really care if I'm in solo queue against 5-man premade, but that's extremely rare and usually there's a party of 3-4 players on my side.
    You basically just described 95% of my Dota 2 games. I make it a habit to play with friends because it's, well fun, but we're by no means proplayers. Our group ranges from Veterans who watch livestreams all day and participate on various dota forums all the way down to a guy who got into the genre a couple of weeks ago.

    We don't "tryhard", we random in basically every game and we have a 48% winrate as a group and yet people still yell and get mad and cry "tryhards" just because SOME of us have the same tags.

  6. #2766
    I have like a 20% winrate queuing with friends and I should really stop, but I haven't seen anyone cry about unfair games. I guess it's because we don't have similar names or tags?

    @Simsons2
    Warding doesn't stop most any jungler, there are more camps than you can buy wards. Wolf doesn't need the little camp to be successful, if you ward it he will just go somewhere else and you will have wasted your other lane's wards on accomplishing nothing. Warding is mostly against chen/enchant to stop them from getting a certain creep, since each camp only spawns a select few types of camps. I always laugh when I random a hero like wolf and the jungle has 3 or 4 camps blocked, I still farm just as well and they get nowhere fast with all that wasted gold =/

  7. #2767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I have like a 20% winrate queuing with friends and I should really stop, but I haven't seen anyone cry about unfair games. I guess it's because we don't have similar names or tags?

    @Simsons2
    Warding doesn't stop most any jungler, there are more camps than you can buy wards. Wolf doesn't need the little camp to be successful, if you ward it he will just go somewhere else and you will have wasted your other lane's wards on accomplishing nothing. Warding is mostly against chen/enchant to stop them from getting a certain creep, since each camp only spawns a select few types of camps. I always laugh when I random a hero like wolf and the jungle has 3 or 4 camps blocked, I still farm just as well and they get nowhere fast with all that wasted gold =/
    Last time they warded small camp when I was Lycan I just pulled and swapped to their jungle by time I was level 3. Warding camps usually doesn't accomplish much unless you're also gonna gank them to take advantage of slowing down their start.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-28 at 12:31 AM ----------

    http://thedotaexperiment.files.wordp...al-online1.pdf

    Apparently this is the end result of a questionnaire that some guy was asking people to complete. It's an interesting read but you can skip to page 214 for the "implications" bit. I went ahead and did the questionnaire after the fact and it looks like it was written quite a while ago, there were several heroes missing from "pick your favorite/least favorite hero" lists.

    Some interesting things the study turned up:

    - South America and Hong Kong servers are almost never chosen alone.

    - Predictably, experiencing abusive behavior makes players less satisfied with the game and also increases the chance that they'll engage in that behavior themselves.

    - Dunning-Kruger effect is in, uh, full effect here. Players consistently rated themselves significantly higher than the "average" player.

    - "Frequency of experience with warding has a positive correlation with lower win-rate." In other words, people who ward more often lose more often than they win?

    - The "card system" (which I guess was new at the time of the questionnaire) seems to be favored only by people who are fans of heroes having a strict, set role.

    - People who are dissatisfied with Dota 2's balance were also more likely to have less faith in the ability of their teammates.

    - Alchemist was the community's least favorite hero.

    - Invoker and Anti-Mage were consistently said to be imbalanced, most favorite, and least favorite. Lycan was the hero most frequently rated as most imbalanced, by a large margin.

    - Alchemist was also considered the most underpowered hero. Batrider, Bloodseeker, and Jakiro were the runners up.

    - Players are generally still satisfied with losing games when their team was communicating with each other.

    - Players tend to blame their team for losses rather than themselves, by a "small margin."

    - A "surprisingly high" number of players will pause the game only if they know the ally that disconnected.

    Fun stuff. Oddly enough, if you tie some of the implications together, it seems to state that players that favor playing the support role and who also ward frequently have a lower win-rate than other players, which seems counter-intuitive.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-28 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  8. #2768
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    - Alchemist was the community's least favorite hero.
    Why so much bad taste, community. =(

  9. #2769
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Would Viper ever see competitive use if the meta ever shifts to a more "let the carry farm for 40 minutes" playstyle? It seems like despite being basically a ranged Skeleton King (since his ulti is basically his only active skill) he has a lot of potential for effectiveness due to the fact that everything he does slows both movement speed and attack speed.

    Anything he hits takes -40% move and attack speed, plus a little bit of magic damage. Anything that hits him takes a little magic damage and takes -25% move and attack speeds, and his ulti reduces move and attack speeds by a whopping 80% at level 16, and if he buys a scepter he can have a little less than 50% uptime for it. He does more damage as targets have less HP (and applies half of this to towers, too), and basically gets a free Hood from his defensive passive. His stats are kind of poopy (only 17+1.9 STR), but it seems like Viper should be able to out-carry damned near any carry as long as the other carry hasn't been left completely alone the entire game, plus he's really brutal in lane, especially combined with a hero like Venomancer or Crystal Maiden.

    I dunno. My buddy thinks that he's a crap hero and good only for pubstomping, but it seems like he'd have a lot of potential in a less push-oriented meta since he lacks any sort of AOE and isn't a good candidate for a Battlefury since he's ranged. But then again I think my buddy is comparing him to Morphling and I think Anti-Mage is the only other carry that can come anywhere near Morphling's level of performance in high-end gameplay right now :-/
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  10. #2770
    Farming for 40 minutes was Viper's standard role few years ago, in Dr. Aegis days (aegis+divine rapier, aegis was made, had 3 charges of reincarnation, and gave 11hp regen, 10 armor), he was default carry for quite a while, he had frenzy instead of nethertoxin, so he only needed damage. His laning is still great, with spammable orb and 2 (3) slows, but he's been replaced with metagame shift over the years.

  11. #2771
    what do you mean by "ever" ?
    he was used often in the past
    good hero just forgotten

  12. #2772
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudomix View Post
    Farming for 40 minutes was Viper's standard role few years ago, in Dr. Aegis days (aegis+divine rapier, aegis was made, had 3 charges of reincarnation, and gave 11hp regen, 10 armor), he was default carry for quite a while, he had frenzy instead of nethertoxin, so he only needed damage. His laning is still great, with spammable orb and 2 (3) slows, but he's been replaced with metagame shift over the years.
    Yeah, that's what it seems like. He's just fucking brutal in lane but because he has no AOE of any kind he's easy to victimize with an aggressive push strategy (offensive trilane?) and he doesn't really have much damage until late in the game because I've never seen intelligent Viper players build anything but durability for the first two thirds of the game.

    It seems like he'd be a fantastic pick as a counter-carry, though, due to the ridiculous amount of slows he gets... focus less on trying to get more damage than the other carry but instead focus on being able to tank their hits while making their attack timer like 3 fucking seconds long. I'm still not sure why everyone recommends Vanguard on him... seems like Meka would be a better choice since he's ranged.



    My buddy and I were planning on goofing around this weekend and running a Keeper/Silencer lane and pissing people off with literal nonstop Curse spam and Mana Leak stuns. Any idea what'd be a good way to counter this kind of lane? PA's the only hero that immediately comes to mind as being mostly immune to this (due to short cooldown and almost nonexistent mana cost on her dagger.)
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  13. #2773
    Much like Razor, Necrolyte and Spectre, Viper's optimal playstyle usually revolves around outlasting their opponents, but with the current drafting trends teamfights don't really last long enough for them to be effective. Maybe if some teams started drafting teams that have emphasis on being able to prolong engagements and persevere then heroes like Viper, Dazzle, Necro, Warlock and Omni might see more play.

  14. #2774
    - Dunning-Kruger effect is in, uh, full effect here. Players consistently rated themselves significantly higher than the "average" player.
    Disagree. Think about the type of person who reads online sites about DotA2 and takes surveys like this. The majority of them probably are above average. The average really is not very good at video games.
    - "Frequency of experience with warding has a positive correlation with lower win-rate." In other words, people who ward more often lose more often than they win?
    Not surprising to me at all. Wards don't make you a good player. I found in my ten years of DotA1 that the harder my enemies tried the easier they were to beat.

  15. #2775
    Consider wards an investment for denying enemy runes, ganks or jungling, if your teammates don't pay attention to minimap, and proper teamwork is rare in random games sadly, you just wasted 200G in early game, when it's most critical. People see pros buying wards, then they buy them too, but they don't understand that unless you get usage from that wards, you just gimped yourself.

  16. #2776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Much like Razor, Necrolyte and Spectre, Viper's optimal playstyle usually revolves around outlasting their opponents, but with the current drafting trends teamfights don't really last long enough for them to be effective. Maybe if some teams started drafting teams that have emphasis on being able to prolong engagements and persevere then heroes like Viper, Dazzle, Necro, Warlock and Omni might see more play.
    Would Dirge also fall into that niche?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Disagree. Think about the type of person who reads online sites about DotA2 and takes surveys like this. The majority of them probably are above average. The average really is not very good at video games.

    Not surprising to me at all. Wards don't make you a good player. I found in my ten years of DotA1 that the harder my enemies tried the easier they were to beat.
    That's one thing I wonder about. I rated myself a 6 on the questionnaire, but that assumes the average player would rate a 5. But should we be rating the "average" player much lower than the mathematical average of 5? Should the average player be a 3 or a 4 and everyone adjusts their assessment of their own skill accordingly?

    Quote Originally Posted by cudomix View Post
    Consider wards an investment for denying enemy runes, ganks or jungling, if your teammates don't pay attention to minimap, and proper teamwork is rare in random games sadly, you just wasted 200G in early game, when it's most critical. People see pros buying wards, then they buy them too, but they don't understand that unless you get usage from that wards, you just gimped yourself.
    Understandable, but in most games I've played you're warding the rune spots because they cover jungle entrances more than because they show runes. You're right that the vast majority of players don't seem to care too much about runes, even if they're carrying a bottle, and I've almost never seen people from side lanes help their mid contest the runes, or players trying to setup an ambush on someone going for a rune (which would probably be a mistake in pubs since people don't go for runes half the time anyway...)

    But having vision of those jungle entrances and major thoroughfares really has shown to be worth it in the vast majority of my games since it seems like all but the stupidest players notice an enemy dot moving in their direction and figure out what that means. Unfortunately, most players apparently have the memory of a fucking goldfish and once that dot isn't visible it's clearly no longer there...
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  17. #2777
    Deleted
    hello mmo champs,reading the whole stories on this thread made me wanna play dota 2 I signed up for dota 2 key in steam but no luck yet so i was wondering if someone can gimme a dota 2 key cause i cant find any keys...Got bored with wow and was playing lol for a long time but dota 2 seems a bit more interesting.btw its not begging,its a friendly request If i get invited and got a key from here already ofc i ll share it to someone else from here.If u d like to help me pm me.

  18. #2778
    High Overlord Ultraviolet Harmonies's Avatar
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    http://dota.uuu9.com/201209/91926.shtml

    We'll see a new patch prior to Monday the 1st of October. Two new heroes, Frostwyrm and Gnoll. Sniper gets buffed.

  19. #2779
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    That's one thing I wonder about. I rated myself a 6 on the questionnaire, but that assumes the average player would rate a 5. But should we be rating the "average" player much lower than the mathematical average of 5? Should the average player be a 3 or a 4 and everyone adjusts their assessment of their own skill accordingly?
    Good question, I suppose. If someone were to ask me what I thought the average player's skill was, I'd say a 1/10. I highly doubt that the skill representation in DotA is a bell curve, I imagine more of an exponential, where the middle of the graph is still very low.

  20. #2780
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Good question, I suppose. If someone were to ask me what I thought the average player's skill was, I'd say a 1/10. I highly doubt that the skill representation in DotA is a bell curve, I imagine more of an exponential, where the middle of the graph is still very low.
    It's pretty hard for a player to rate themselves because for an average player it's really hard to get a good picture of the whole skill spectrum. In hon you'd often see people in the 15xx or 16xx MMR range (which is really low, new players would start at 1500) with 1500+ games played who seemed to think they're really good at the game.

    In DotA times I had a friend who thought he was the shit because he'd own hard in DOTA -APEM PROS ONLY in WC3.

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