If you understand the game and know what you're doing, "unusual" builds can be as good (or better) as the usual ones. I'm not talking about buying arbitrary items on random heroes, but actually having thought on what you're going to do and how you're going to execute it.
What many fail to understand is that none of the heroes in Dota are actually built only to support. The idea of supports isn't that you have this group of heroes that you don't ever give any farm over other heroes because they can't do anything with it. Heroes that can support are defined by their ability to have strong early-game and alright late-game with little to no xp and levels, but that alone doesn't mean heroes that can support well should always support.
Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-10-07 at 07:10 PM.
I love how 6.75 revitalized the meta-game. No more same-20 picks/bans. Finally Drow is back in the meta, Jakiro is the ultimate babysitter, and Lycan can rot in hell
Fact: Supports dont need items to be effective.
Fact: Carries do need items to be effective.
Fact: MOST carries have a steroid skill that helps them scale into late game
Fact: Effective ranged carries require either long range (600+ drow/sniper), an escape (wave form for example) or high mobility or effective while tanky (razor/medusa) to be effective
Fact: VS doesn't need items to be effective.
Fact: VS Doesn't have a steroid skill, her aura and armor reduction are both buffs/debuffs that the whole team benefits from (support)
Fact: VS doesn't have an escape
Fact: VS doesn't have high mobility (295 MS)
Fact: VS ult puts her in a HIGH RISK situation and saves allies, this implies support in itself
Please explain to me why it would be effective to put VS as a carry over a support? In your pub games you may perform better as a carry because of bad players failing at carrying and you needing to, but this does not make her even a somewhat viable semi carry. If your team is stomping and you happen to have money for a manta, fine. But the same can be said of Veno, who is even more of a support imo, requiring less farm to be just as efficient. Heroes DO have roles that they are built for, falling from that role is a waste. There are some heroes that are way more flexible, like Leshrac, he can get lots of farm and carry via aoe nuke damage or he can support and be a great line up stun and push. The difference here is the team gains nothing by putting VS as a carry. Nothing.
I have a feeling you didn't either read my post or understand it very well. What I said was that heroes that can support are defined by them not needing any items to be effective in the role. We both probably agreed on that, although you had hard time understanding that either. What I argued was that it doesn't cut both ways, and every single hero in the game that is often labeled as "support" is viable as something else than the "5" support slot.
What VS has a very good early-game, rather high damage (despite having "no steroids") with only basic items and levels, and with fast enough levels she provides a huge boost to the rest of her team and can fill the role of an initiator. I'm not saying she beats Morphling 50 minutes into a game, or can out-farm an Anti-Mage, but when used correctly with the right (mid-game oriented) strategy she can fill the role of a carry very nicely. Na´Vi, for example, have played carry VS plenty of times very successfully.
She gets a free +36% damage aura, she has an armor pierce skill with greater than 100% uptime, and one of the better stuns in the game. Her ultimate can be used as initiation, escape, and anything in between. She can fill the role of carry just fine; how many hard carries have a spammable stormbolt or an aura that boost their entire team's damage?
This is the entire point - no one's saying VS is a better carry than Anti-Mage or Morphling, just that she can be played as a carry and is effective as one. You might want to dial the attitude back next time if you want your stay here to be a happy one.
Besides, it's not a bad statement, although a bit crude. People tend to forget the meta-game shifts even without new maps and become obsessed with the current one to the point they forget there were different strategies that worked in the past and there will eventually be new strategies in the future. I get the feeling that when new maps are released, not even half the change in the "meta" and drafting trends is because a hero or strategy gets buffed or nerfed to the point where everyone agrees that they're OP or UP, but because the new maps encourage players to try new things. And teams that try new things seem to often end up being successful and later on mimiced, and then people will call whatever is born in the aftermath "the new meta."
I remember Tiny being picked as much as Invoker is now and Wolf and AM being considered garbage picks. Some of the popular strategies of DotA1 would probably amaze/confuse a lot of people. And not much has really changed.
I had played dota casually back in w3 days. I've been playing LoL for one year now, still at the same casual level. I tried Dota 2 beta a few weeks ago and didn't like it and the reason is the interface. It's too complex to my liking. It simply put me off so i couldn't spend much time with the game. I also didn't like base designs either.
I'm playing ARAM only in LoL, like 2 games max per day and that's it. Don't have much time for these games but considering it won't be f2p (unless they change their minds like they did with tf2) i don't see myself involving in dota 2.
Juggerneat - Shattered Halls (EU) (not active since Dec 2011)
DotA2 will be f2p when it ever releases. Shouldn't honestly be too long now, they already updated the game to reflect the beta DotA changes and just need to add the remaining heroes.
Oh I keep forgetting about that. They also have a ton of game modes to add if they want it to truly be like DotA....I would really like to see a non-ranked league similar to the way LoL does things. It would certainly help with playing with low/nonskilled friends.
Still, as much as I complained about their update speed in the past, they have proven recently that they can push new content very quickly when they focus on it. Another few months, at worst, is my guess. Let's not forget that they can "release" the game before it's done. My thoughts are, finish all of the heroes, release the game to the mass public, integrate in other systems such as tutorials/mentoring/game modes over time.
Valve has said that the main reason they have not released the game yet is because they dont have their desired server infrastucture up yet. My guess is that they are working on that now since TI2 is done and we will see a release pretty soon when all servers are up.
So I read they added Magnus to DotA2 in last patch, is that correct? I always loved him in DotA, or alteast after the latest chages to him (cleave from passive to castable active etc), how does he look like now? Good? Bad?