On the eggs, I'm betting they hatch when the patch hits, if not sooner. If anyone has a spare Quas essence, I wouldn't mind trading it if I have something you'd like. profile
There are a lot of RNG mechanics that don't really seem to add much, and could be replaced with something consistent - random chance to miss attacking uphill with a ranged attack, random chance to crit, random chance to dodge, Chaos Bolt stuns and damages for a random amount within set limits, and so on. Over the course of an entire game or several games it evens out (otherwise the mechanic would deemed broken in some way and I'd assume something would've been done about it), but that's not really much consolation when you might win a game you should've lost because you rolled a 20 instead of an 18.
I'm not a fan of how carries can often grow to become virtually unstoppable after a certain point. I agree that it's possible to delay that point, and I've seen professional teams pull it off plenty of times, but I still don't feel that's an acceptable mechanic for a game that's purportedly a skill-based game... especially when the majority of the gameplay for a carry consists of "right-click a target, continue right-clicking until all targets are gone, and then right-click to somewhere else."
I'm just disappointed that, after close to 400 hours in Dota 2 (and however many hours of Dota back in ~2004-2005), the game still seems to be mostly about spamming disables and less about real, skill-intensive actions, especially when you compare it to a proper shooter like Quake or UT, or even the more indie-style ones like Nexuiz (haven't looked at the new version, talking about the old one) or Warsow, where it's literally your skill against their skill and nothing else.
By such a logic we can safely conclude that hook-rot-ulti combination executed by a pudge is a prime example of click-collect gold gameplay you are talking about.
Have you ever done WoW arena?
It is the most natural thing, to stack stuns i.e. - Crowd Control.
Either you accept and adapt, or you dont.
Try Starcraft 2. No random mechanics there, entirely skill based.
I play both, when I want to rely on my own skill entirely, for a pure 1v1 experience, I play SC2.
When I want to have fun but remain mildly competitive in a less structured yet more adventurous game I play Dota2 - a game that is easy to play with friends.
Dota 2 is incredibly balanced for what it is.
Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-14 at 02:25 PM.
Tobi, for example, flips his shit when Dendi disjoints a projectile with a blink dagger or whatever, and while it's impressive compared to the average player, it's just a standard twitch reaction, the kinds of which happen dozens of times in a single match of Quake or UT.
Honestly, taking a step back and looking at it, I'm seeing a hell of a lot of similarities between WoW's PvP and Dota - garbage mechanics (lol, you don't get to play for X seconds!) in place to make up for the inability for the game to showcase actual talent or skill. Whether that's intentional or because Dota was originally built on the much weaker War3 engine... who knows? It's irrelevant, either way.
Dota's fun as a casual game, I guess, but the sheer amount of information you have to have memorized just to not feed already makes it really hostile to newbies, which seems like it defeats the purpose. I sure as hell can't take Dota seriously as a competitive game.
The problem is not the mechanics themselves, it's the player. You will blame your death's, and your own faults on RNG, or the fact that someone used a flat cc, when in actuality the problem is your own. It, like in any other game, is an obstacle, that you learn to deal with - and play with. It's like saying "I only died because PA got a massive crit off"... what you really mean is, I didn't anticipate that I might die because of a variable which I apparently knew, yet gambled at the expense of my team anyway.
Regarding your stun complaints, I really don't know what to say.
If you don't like that, as I have already said, try SC2, there is no RNG there, it may be more enjoyable for you. With that being said, I can imagine you being a bronze leaguer complaining about force fields, drop harass or stealth mechanics.
And for the record, if you have played any game at a professional or semi-professional level, you will know that the difference between semi-pro's and pro's in multiplayer games is generally one thing - teamwork. Individual skill in the games, between the top 5%, is often identical, with a few players being exceptionally gifted, while most being the same.
Teamwork is present in dota2 massively, in fact, it is the core of the game. Which is why I can take the dota2 competitive scene seriously.
No game is more demanding than Brood War and BW had plenty of random mechanics, like the uphill miss chance that was an important tactical mechanic also in WC3 and DotA. Reaver Scarabs were another thing that was fairly random and made your hold your breath when watching tournament play.
@Pizza you keep saying things like "game design is not hard" "drafting isn't that complex" "mechanics are garbage and game isn't skillful" but they haven't really resonated with anyone so far, and you're far from being the most experienced or skilled player in this thread. I've disputed your rants more than I can remember, but when pressured you always either change subject or go on a baseless yet agressive rant about said "garbage mechanics" or whatever Icefrog might have snorted this week.
Again you're only making aggressive statements that only have base in your opinion, and like I warned you, you're not being taken seriously. Maybe it's about time you just accepted that maybe skill means something else than just aiming skillshots, that carrying means something else than farming and a-clicking, that drafting means something else than just picking imba heroes, or that you're still much further from understanding the game than you think.
Like I said before: if you want perspective on where Dota's balance is right now, go check out HoN, it's free. Meanwhile just either try to enjoy the game without getting angry, or if you can't, play something else.
I don't know if I understand you guys. I think I've rarely seen someone complain about something for so long and continue to do it. I've been following this thread for quite some time, and every time either of you post, I put on my best "Here we go again" hat.
Is dota2 100% balanced in each and every possible way? Probably not. But thats why they continue to make updates as best they can. If you don't enjoy the game or watching competitive play, then don't play it. I happen to think dota2 is extremely fun, I'd say in only about 10% of the games I'm in do I find it painful. That's usually do to myself playing poorly and we end up losing, or lousy teammates. And tbh, I don't even mind bad teammates that much, the worst thing is teammates that are assclowns, but that's inevitable in any online game I suppose.
Pizza, you claim that dota competitive players do things that any skilled FPS player does regularly. Then why are you still watching dota competitive games. No one is forcing you to. If it isn't up the unbelievably high standard you might have, then just move on from dota. There are plenty of other games out there. For example, I played GW2 for a little bit. I didn't care for it. But I didn't keep playing it and repeatedly post on their message boards about how awful the game is and how bad pro players are (if there even are pro GW2 players, I'm not sure). That would be foolish.
If dota2 is as simple to master as the two of you make it seem, why don't you go pro? Apparently CM picking so easy, and playstyle is so easy, and all you need to do is chain stuns, and all carries need to do is right click things... Then man, you should be playing in next years TI3, right? And maybe this game is so easy, that you don't even want to be bothered, well then why aren't you playing something that's more on your skill level and flooding that game's message boards up with whining?
It's just a shame that 50% of this thread's posts are either "OMG XYZ IS SO OP, NERF THIS AND NERF THAT", "ICEFROG IS A MORON", etc etc.
If you don't enjoy this game, don't play it. Not sure why this is a difficult concept.
The backstory for those who don't know:
Pendragon (currently a Riot employee) owned and ran the dota-allstars.com website back in the day. He was going to move the website to a new server and said the site was going to be down for a week while they migrated the database and everything (a week is a long time for a database migration).
This was ~2 years ago. A year ago, someone asked him about what happened to the site and he said he ran out of time and was working on getting it back up just for the archives and such. He, again, estimated it'd be down for a week. Well, that was a year ago and just yesterday the database files were released. Reliable chap, eh?
The thing that makes the story such a big deal was that dota-allstars.com was THE go-to place for DOTA material and chatting. It was like the mmo-champ for dota. Some people only had friendships there (this wasn't steam, mind you) and no other way of contacting those people. An entire community was killed off in one fell swoop.
Pendragon then had the bright idea of replacing the dota-allstars.com landing page with a big LoL advertisement because he went to work there, and later on he wrote a letter that tried to blame Icefrog for something, but I didn't read this letter and don't know much about it. Recently he tried to make a big positive PR stunt by releasing the database files of dota-allstars.com but people basically just shit all over him
Honestly the whole thing makes me sick, im willing to bet the files have been heavily edited over those years, but ill not say anymore.
Well, any MOBA-style game is going to have similar heroes, there's absolutely no way to get around that. It also greatly helps people jumping from one game to another. I started playing LoL once or twice a week with friends who play and having the ability to explain heroes in that game and relate them to heroes in DOTA helped immensely
Though I'm still not sure why your post is directed at me.