[Megathread] DotA 2

[llDemonll]

I think it's more of the fact that one really bad teammate who doesn't take criticism or direction can really affect the outcome of the game in a negative way

[Keyzz]

I think it's more of the fact that one really bad teammate who doesn't take criticism or direction can really affect the outcome of the game in a negative way

Is this much different in any online game with a team? I assume the larger the team size, the less that one individual affects you. But also with a larger team size, you have the chance of having more than one teammate who is counter-productive.

Perhaps for the people who hate this aspect of dota, you would prefer a single player online game? There are plenty to choose from I would say. Play a FPS on a non-team mode, play a sports game like nba2kwhatever, madden 20xx, etc, play SC2. Play chess like it was suggested, though I hear queens are crazy OP. Those bitches can move like anywhere, they need to be nerfed.

Personally, I have several games to play depending on my mood. Sometimes I want the randomness of dota2 team making, working together with a new team is a rewarding experience. Sometimes I'm frustrated by a bad team and I'll move on to a FPS or some WoW for the evening.

If you really like dota but hate having bad teammates, then only group with people you know or have played with before and then you don't have to worry. I really don't get why this is an issue. There are drawbacks to dota, just like any game. But there are steps you can take to mitigate them, or not play altogether. Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results, I think this applies here.

@Pizza, AGAIN another post from you where something is OP. And comparing it to WoW also. I just.... don't know what to say to you at this point. If dota is simply a matter of who stuns who first, then I imagine you should form a competitive team, pick 5 heros with stuns, and faceroll to victory? The more and more you speak about dota, the less and less I think you have a clue what you are talking about. Though now it has spread to WoW also.

[PizzaSHARK]

Is this much different in any online game with a team? I assume the larger the team size, the less that one individual affects you. But also with a larger team size, you have the chance of having more than one teammate who is counter-productive.

In CS:S, DoD:S, UT2k4, and most other games of that nature, if your team sucks, you just switch teams or find a new server - when you're running your own server (or have admin rights, anyway), it's really not that hard to keep people in line. My problem with shit players has never been that they're shit, but that many of them don't care that they're shit or otherwise have attitude problems. Everyone was bad at a given game at some point, and there are games I'm pretty sure I'm always gonna suck at (I can't play Ikaruga for shit, for example.)

But when it's a team effort and you can't even be bothered to try to play better for the sake of your team... man, fuck those guys. At least when I was running Source servers or playing on the UT2k4 servers I had admin rights on I could ban them for a few hours until they had a chance to think about their priorities in a team game.

@Pizza, AGAIN another post from you where something is OP. And comparing it to WoW also. I just.... don't know what to say to you at this point. If dota is simply a matter of who stuns who first, then I imagine you should form a competitive team, pick 5 heros with stuns, and faceroll to victory? The more and more you speak about dota, the less and less I think you have a clue what you are talking about. Though now it has spread to WoW also.

Because WoW is the only other game I spent a significant amount of time and energy on, which also has the fucking stupid decision to implement game mechanics which remove players from the game. Dota then exacerbates it by making you sit in time-out, which just makes deaths even more frustrating. Counter-Strike shares this, too, but even flashbangs don't prevent a skilled player from reacting.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:52 AM ----------

Is that what you hate about dota? That you can't win by yourself?

Not necessarily that alone, but more that it's highly unlikely I can win a game just by simply being better than the enemy players (unless I dramatically overwhelm them, which isn't likely since I'm not that good) and there's no way around automated penalties if I decide that's bullshit and I shouldn't have my time wasted. It's especially noticeable in Dota, where games often last 40+ minutes in pubs (due to pubs generally not knowing how to fucking push) - that means that if teams are uneven, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs while waiting for something fun to happen. And if you decide you'd like to try a new game (the equivalent of switching servers in a Source game)... well, fuck you, man - have a day of 15 minute queues!

Granted, I accept that those automated systems need to be in place because regardless of reasons, abandoning a game is dicking over the other nine players... but, christ, that kind of frustration shouldn't be in a game. Aren't games supposed to be fun?

[Longview]

DoD:S, UT2k4, and CS:S. I'd really like to get into Tribes Ascend but my poor computer can barely manage 20 fps on most maps and that's simply not enough for a fast-paced game like that.

I take it you mean competitively as in an active and dedicated team who scrim fairly often, not stomping people on public servers. Correct?

Aren't games supposed to be fun?

Common misconception. Fun is for casuals and people who do not realize how much they suck.

[Kuntantee]

Common misconception. Fun is for casuals and people who do not realize how much they suck.

What do you mean by casual? Because from my PoV, I'm pretty casual yet highly skilled and experienced in DotA. And my first aim, while playing a game, is having fun.

[PizzaSHARK]

I take it you mean competitively as in an active and dedicated team who scrim fairly often, not stomping people on public servers. Correct?

Correct. Never at the professional level, but we took it seriously. Sometimes organizations like OGL and CAL, though usually just scrimming through IRC channels and whatnot.

[Hermanni]

The more and more you speak about dota, the less and less I think you have a clue what you are talking about.

It's almost admirable how quickly you reached this conclusion. If you're still unsure, there's another 170 pages of the same stuff.

[Lysah]

That's true, but I do think personal skill has a lot more impact there - a single light that really knows routes and how to ski well can damned near win a game all on his own as long as his idiot teammates don't llama grab the flag while he's screaming in at half the speed of light. And Hi-Rez apparently put in penalties and stuff to discourage players from doing those llama grabs, last I heard.

Yeah, but for those of us who enjoy playing Brute instead, there's only so much you can do solo =p

@longview's comment
I can agree. I try every day to play DotA for fun but when you're a highly skilled player it just isn't possible. You're going to get pissed at your teammates when they screw up and that's that. Every time you play one handed and still go 16-0 and STILL lose the game because your 4 allies are a combined 4-56 the fun is gone. You either play to win or you stop playing. Like I said before, when you're an average player, just playing the game can be fun. Win or lose, you can look at things you did wrong and try to improve and that progress itself can be fun. When that progress is gone, the only fun that remains is winning. It sounds crappy and people act confused as to why I love the game so much when I'm not even having fun playing it, so, there's my opinion.

Not sure if that's what longview meant at all but there you go. He might've just been making a joke, after all. I would still agree.

When I play games I watch my allies' mistakes as they happen and there's nothing I can do about it. That's probably the most frustrating part. See Slardar pushing too far top, 4 went mia, "you're getting ganked sla-dead already." Whole team jungling, 5 went mia, "they're probably smoke ga-3 people dead already." Best part, pushing 4 bot and carry is free farming top, manage to pull out even trades or maybe get a tower, 10 minutes later, "I sure hope Drow got farm-nope she still has shit nothing." Or the ever famous ally getting picked off jungling during a 5 man push mid, so what do my 2 supports do, "SAVE HIM SAVE HIM" and everyone runs into a 1v5 one at a time.

[Daraiki]

Yeah, but for those of us who enjoy playing Brute instead, there's only so much you can do solo =p

@longview's comment
I can agree. I try every day to play DotA for fun but when you're a highly skilled player it just isn't possible. You're going to get pissed at your teammates when they screw up and that's that. Every time you play one handed and still go 16-0 and STILL lose the game because your 4 allies are a combined 4-56 the fun is gone. You either play to win or you stop playing. Like I said before, when you're an average player, just playing the game can be fun. Win or lose, you can look at things you did wrong and try to improve and that progress itself can be fun. When that progress is gone, the only fun that remains is winning. It sounds crappy and people act confused as to why I love the game so much when I'm not even having fun playing it, so, there's my opinion.

Not sure if that's what longview meant at all but there you go. He might've just been making a joke, after all. I would still agree.

When I play games I watch my allies' mistakes as they happen and there's nothing I can do about it. That's probably the most frustrating part. See Slardar pushing too far top, 4 went mia, "you're getting ganked sla-dead already." Whole team jungling, 5 went mia, "they're probably smoke ga-3 people dead already." Best part, pushing 4 bot and carry is free farming top, manage to pull out even trades or maybe get a tower, 10 minutes later, "I sure hope Drow got farm-nope she still has shit nothing." Or the ever famous ally getting picked off jungling during a 5 man push mid, so what do my 2 supports do, "SAVE HIM SAVE HIM" and everyone runs into a 1v5 one at a time.

You have a very easy problem....just stack maybe?

[Lysah]

You have a very easy problem....just stack maybe?

I only know one player good enough and he's too busy going pro in SC2. Don't get me wrong, I play with friends all the time, I actually never solo queue for the most part. My friends make these mistakes too and it's not any less painful to watch. Especially because one of them in particular also has 11 years of experience and so he thinks when he's diving past their tier 2 tower at level FIVE he's still being a pro, regardless of how stupid I let him know he is when that 2v4 was very obviously going to happen with a dive that big.

[PizzaSHARK]

You have a very easy problem....just stack maybe?

The issue with this mentality is that it means you can only play the game at specific times - when your buddies are all available to play. It's not really an acceptable solution, because what happens when your buddies don't want to play Dota, or aren't available... but you want to play?

[Hermanni]

The issue with this mentality is that it means you can only play the game at specific times - when your buddies are all available to play. It's not really an acceptable solution, because what happens when your buddies don't want to play Dota, or aren't available... but you want to play?

Get more friends or get out of whatever horrible mentality/region/bracket you have for soloqueuing. Or just don't play if you can't. I don't get to play some solo queue nearly as often as I'd like to because I obviously won't ever turn down a request to play with someone else. And while I prefer playing with friends I still like an occassional solo queue, and where I am they're enjoyable most of the time. Except when I queue USE when EU times are too long, then not quite as often... I don't know what it is, but the skill disparity between players and the amount of ragers and players with ego issues seems higher there, definitely worse than the occasional CIS player who might not speak English that well but probably can play just fine if left alone.

And by the way, since you hated on Visage and Familiars not too long ago... back then I defended him and only had like 3 games played on him since the DotA days when he summoned and army of bats and Soul Assumption was passive. I've played quite a few games on him the past few days and I've wrecked shit in most of them, even if my play hasn't been particularly amazing. Latest or second latest game I was solo offlane against carry+support+jungler and went 6-0 in 10? minutes and godlike later on and won the game at 15-1 despite the relentless feeding by my friends. (Admittably they weren't all that good because one of my friends wouldn't log his real account.) Nothing like picking off enemies left and right with the shitty bats that don't do damage. And I don't think I haven't lost more than 4 or 5 of them in a game yet.

[Finear]

green greevil looks so awesome, now i regret putting 3 unusual in white :c

[Longview]

What did the unusual essences actually do?

edit: I am sorry this must be broken - left one is six essences in total (did not get even get wings when upgraded to flying) and the right one is five (-1 yellow)

[Storm the Sorrow]

they introduced Slark!
Oh how utterly great
another pub-stomp imba >.>

[Finear]

so far, ive noticed higher grade (unusual mythical, green naked is just mythical) additional particles and bigger horns (im not sure tho, it may be bacause of lack of exort essence in green egg)
maybe more animations and/or sounds cba to check everything now i have to wake up at 6am ;p

[Longview]

they introduced Slark!
Oh how utterly great
another pub-stomp imba >.>

Opt for sentries over dust; he'll purge the dust right off.

so far, ive noticed higher grade (unusual mythical, green naked is just mythical) additional particles and bigger horns (im not sure tho, it may be bacause of lack of exort essence in green egg)
maybe more animations and/or sounds cba to check everything now i have to wake up at 6am ;p

I've only tested with three unusuals, they have the most wicked glow in-game.

[Jangri-]

3 Unusuals anything is pretty damn epic. My favorite is shadow i guess.

[Tommo]

Dreaded + 3 unusuals... its not as cool as the other ones, im really dissapointed, plus the greevils look so goofy its unreal

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...AE02062FE797F/

[Longview]

Dreaded + 3 unusuals... its not as cool as the other ones, im really dissapointed, plus the greevils look so goofy its unreal

[IMG]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/594735680097710184/FFBACD61EFF94361BF803EED1BBAE02062FE797F/[IMG]

holy image batman please crop that image or thumbnail it

guide here

Not sure if that's what longview meant at all

the harder you try, the less fun you will have - it has close to absolutely nothing to do with how good someone is at the game. That's just what I've experienced, though.

but please don't be the guy that goes "well fuck you man I'm having fun" while ruining the game for your team mates.