1. #3541
    Assassinate is an extremely powerful ult. Biggest strength is that you can't stop it or see it coming. That QoP blinks out of the team fight with 300 health? Dead. Rubick force staffs over some trees? Still dead. The range is extreme, the damage is extreme, and there is zero cooldown. A Lina ult from two screens away with a 10 second cooldown? I don't see how that is anything other than fantastic. Assassinate is how Sniper remains relevant early game, you can easily teleport to a side lane and pop your ult for free kills early game when people stay in lane with 350 health because 60% health feels like a lot when you aren't counting on sniper hitting you for 80% of that from farther range than you can see.

    I actually used to go 2x pers > skadi just for laughs back before shrapnel got nerfed. In DotA1 pubs nothing was funnier than going 20-0 spamming that ult. People get more defensive items now than they used to, but it's still a lot of damage.

    All that said, Drow's silence and global creepaura does likely make her a better hero than Sniper all around.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-20 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #3542
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    What?

    ps: It's not spammable. After two uses in a row, you will be out of mana. And again, that range is not a huge thing.
    you haven't seen caster-build Snipers, I tell ya
    terrifying, or terrible sight, depending on execution :P

  3. #3543
    Quote Originally Posted by cudomix View Post
    On the other hand, how would you all feel if items were nerfed in power a bit? In my opinion, we see same heroes in metagame because any holes in your team can be easily plugged by items, maybe we would see more dynamic picking because you'd need to proper counter enemy's team.
    I think the possibility to plug holes in your team composition with items is what actually makes Dota interesting. Have problems with an Ursa? Buy a Blade Mail. Team lacking Hex, get a Scythe... Nerfing the items would increase the impact of the team composition, which can be quite frustrating when the enemy team hard counters you and you cant do anything against it. The game should not be decided at the selection window. I know I take it to the extreme.

    Plus would nerfing the items really get more heroes into the game? I dont think so, some new will enter, some will drop out for being too item dependent (therefor nerfed with the item nerf)

  4. #3544
    I have tried to rush Ethereal Balde with sniper a few times , it was pretty brutal on the games i was able to farm it early was able to eblade+ulti non str heroes to death , though i was getting oom after the combo so needed lots of regen items after that

  5. #3545
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Assassinate is an extremely powerful ult. Biggest strength is that you can't stop it or see it coming. That QoP blinks out of the team fight with 300 health? Dead. Rubick force staffs over some trees? Still dead. The range is extreme, the damage is extreme, and there is zero cooldown. A Lina ult from two screens away with a 10 second cooldown? I don't see how that is anything other than fantastic. Assassinate is how Sniper remains relevant early game, you can easily teleport to a side lane and pop your ult for free kills early game when people stay in lane with 350 health because 60% health feels like a lot when you aren't counting on sniper hitting you for 80% of that from farther range than you can see.

    I actually used to go 2x pers > skadi just for laughs back before shrapnel got nerfed. In DotA1 pubs nothing was funnier than going 20-0 spamming that ult. People get more defensive items now than they used to, but it's still a lot of damage.

    All that said, Drow's silence and global creepaura does likely make her a better hero than Sniper all around.
    You can't stop most ultimate in the game so I wouldn't count that as an advantage. It's true that you could TP and steal one kill or you could just stay in your ultimate range and kill on low-life enemy hero but while doing that, you could farm more gold on lane and maybe get a tower while others are busy with ganking top/bot whatever. The damage is not extreme, its very poor(since when 355 is greater than 500?). It's true that it has very low CD but you will be out of mana after second use.

    His ultimate has only use for picking low life enemy heroes and it, alone, does not make a ultimate great. If you dare to enter team fights, you most likely be crushed. All you can do is picking someone from range and you could earn more gold by just CSing in lane.

    ps: I was talking about a competitive game, not pubs.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-20 at 11:25 PM.

  6. #3546
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    You can't stop most ultimate in the game so I wouldn't count that as an advantage.
    Sure you can't stop them if they hit you, but if you see that Bane running in you know he's going to ult so you can prepare for it. If Tide starts walking into the middle of your team you know he's going to ravage so you can prepare for it. Sniper's ult is like a double damage Zeus ult, it can be anywhere and once he's targetted you nothing will stop it. Going invis can effectively stop plenty of ults, blinking as well, assassinate will chase both of these down.

    Let's keep comparing him to Drow. If you're a hero like WD, Drow can silence you and start nuking you with cold arrows. You can duck into a tree and TP out, problem solved. Sniper? Headshot will get you to half health and when you try to TP you get black hole where your head used to be. Mathematically assassinate might not look like much, but that much damage in one skill that can't be avoided for a hard carry is pretty significant. Especially since the cooldown is so low he can pretty much force the enemy mid out of lane the second he hits 6.

    Actually, assassinate is *almost* as powerful as culling blade is, it trades a little bit of damage for the ability to be cast at full health and have insane range. Would you argue Axe's ult is bad as well? Pretty sure most people consider it another extremely strong ultimate. Sniper can't assassinate someone through shallow grave or refraction, I guess.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-20 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #3547
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Sure you can't stop them if they hit you, but if you see that Bane running in you know he's going to ult so you can prepare for it. If Tide starts walking into the middle of your team you know he's going to ravage so you can prepare for it. Sniper's ult is like a double damage Zeus ult, it can be anywhere and once he's targetted you nothing will stop it. Going invis can effectively stop plenty of ults, blinking as well, assassinate will chase both of these down.

    Let's keep comparing him to Drow. If you're a hero like WD, Drow can silence you and start nuking you with cold arrows. You can duck into a tree and TP out, problem solved. Sniper? Headshot will get you to half health and when you try to TP you get black hole where your head used to be. Mathematically assassinate might not look like much, but that much damage in one skill that can't be avoided for a hard carry is pretty significant. Especially since the cooldown is so low he can pretty much force the enemy mid out of lane the second he hits 6.

    Actually, assassinate is *almost* as powerful as culling blade is, it trades a little bit of damage for the ability to be cast at full health and have insane range. Would you argue Axe's ult is bad as well? Pretty sure most people consider it another extremely strong ultimate. Sniper can't assassinate someone through shallow grave or refraction, I guess.
    Sniper's ultimate is effective if no1 intervenes to that lane. You could just use ultimate two times in a row and force enemy to go base but that does not happen in reality. No1 would wait for sniper to nuke you to 100 hp. I consider his ultimate bad because he's a carry and his ultimate is effective at early game only if enemy team let him other than picking some low-hp heroes(which again does not make it a great ultimate). Axe has a good ultimate because enemy hp is irrelevant and there is no way to block him using his ultimate other than not going under %20 which is not up to player unless you wait in base. But there is a way to do it on sniper, just playing aggressive on him(trying to lock enemy carry is a common strategy) and there you go he wont even be able to cast his ultimate.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-20 at 11:40 PM.

  8. #3548
    So, what makes a good ultimate, in your opinion, and what makes it so different from assassinate? Assassinate is directly mathematically balanced between damage, mana cost, cooldown, range, and cast speed, and effectiveness with any other damage ultimate in the game. There are CC ultimates and utility ultimates, but it sounds like you hate an entire caste of ultimates because all they are is damage.

    Do you remember how ridiculous assassinate Rubick was before they give him the cast timer back?

  9. #3549
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    So, what makes a good ultimate, in your opinion, and what makes it so different from assassinate? Assassinate is directly mathematically balanced between damage, mana cost, cooldown, range, and cast speed, and effectiveness with any other damage ultimate in the game. There are CC ultimates and utility ultimates, but it sounds like you hate an entire caste of ultimates because all they are is damage.

    Do you remember how ridiculous assassinate Rubick was before they give him the cast timer back?
    Actually, the ultimate itself is good. It's useless on sniper(a carry) because it does not bring something strong to sniper. To be fairly honest, that ultimate would be OP on Rubick if he had it constantly.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-21 at 12:10 AM.

  10. #3550
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Axe has a good ultimate because enemy hp is irrelevant (...) under %20
    since when ?

  11. #3551
    Assassinate if used proper is almost always a guaranteed kill, range and damage are really good, late late game it's nothing to write home about, but by then you should be strongest 1v1 hero on the map (ministun goes through BKB, and if they get evasion, get MKB for ultimate stunlocking goodness). If you're not abusing assassinate's insane range, you're doing it wrong^^

  12. #3552
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    since when ?
    Nice catch. I confused it with warrior's execute. Too much WoW.

    It is related with hp. Something like 200/400/600 but that does not change the fact that you can't do anything to save your hp going under those tresholds other than staying in base.

    Time for me to go bed, its almost 2:30 am here.

    ps: I always had kind of association between culling blade and warriors execute.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-21 at 12:37 AM.

  13. #3553
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Do you remember how ridiculous assassinate Rubick was before they give him the cast timer back?
    It was? thought that was like now always.
    You will not be forgotten, Eleanor / Steam ID / DeviantArt page / YouTube / Twitter

  14. #3554
    Quote Originally Posted by NightFury Treann View Post
    It was? thought that was like now always.
    shit was crazy when he was released ;d

  15. #3555
    Quote Originally Posted by cudomix View Post
    Assassinate if used proper is almost always a guaranteed kill, range and damage are really good, late late game it's nothing to write home about, but by then you should be strongest 1v1 hero on the map (ministun goes through BKB, and if they get evasion, get MKB for ultimate stunlocking goodness). If you're not abusing assassinate's insane range, you're doing it wrong^^
    Headshot goes through evasion now, Sniper never needs MKB at all. So good~

    Anyway, I think Sniper would be way too good with any other ultimate. Give him some sort of CC or escape and he will be impossible to kill with his long range and shrapnel combined. Give him more damage and he will be hard carrying with just treads and manta...

  16. #3556
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Give him more damage and he will be hard carrying with just treads and manta...
    Pretty much, considering all his other skills are excellent (range increase, ministun, shrapnel is pushing/farming tool with slow atached), situational (but powerful) ultimate is what keeps him in line. Last thing i want to see is another morph or invoker.

  17. #3557
    But then again, Morphling was fine to begin with, he was just popular and in the hands of the best carry players in the world he made a lot of people mad.

  18. #3558
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Biggest strength is that you can't stop it or see it coming.
    well, technically...


  19. #3559
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    well, technically...

    Trick shot!

  20. #3560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    But then again, Morphling was fine to begin with, he was just popular and in the hands of the best carry players in the world he made a lot of people mad.
    Morphling was OP as hell before those nerfs. He was simply too hard to kill. That's why he was popular - he was the only hard carry that was difficult to kill right from the beginning of the game, yet was still pretty strong late game. Cheap, easy strength morphing was entirely too forgiving of sloppy play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
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