1. #3821
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Also I really doubt IceFrog would be interested in technical problems. Anyway if this shit continues I'll write it in official forums.
    You'd be surprised.

  2. #3822
    Master Frog probably cares a lot about everything DotA related. What started out as a fun personal project for him is going to make him a millionaire as long as he keeps caring.

    Well, I don't know how much money he gets from Valve actually, but I can't imagine it's small.

  3. #3823
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Master Frog probably cares a lot about everything DotA related. What started out as a fun personal project for him is going to make him a millionaire as long as he keeps caring.

    Well, I don't know how much money he gets from Valve actually, but I can't imagine it's small.
    I can imagine the money that the store in dota cash in every day... Its probably a lot higher than Furions GPM.

  4. #3824
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    I can imagine the money that the store in dota cash in every day... Its probably a lot higher than Furions GPM.
    You guys are silly, didn't you see the 1300 GPM antimage? Furion can only dream of that.

  5. #3825
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Master Frog probably cares a lot about everything DotA related. What started out as a fun personal project for him is going to make him a millionaire as long as he keeps caring.

    Well, I don't know how much money he gets from Valve actually, but I can't imagine it's small.
    Valve has a very small amount of employees with regard to their size. Their bar for hiring people is absurdly high, they will only hire people who not only has great expertise in multiple fields - they only hire people who work really well in groups and in social situations. At Valve, nobody is your boss (not even GabeN) and very few people permanently work on one game/project (IceFrog is probably the only one constantly on Dota 2). Every so often, they have everyone vote on each others' deserved salary, and employees get paid based on the mean of these numbers. I'd imagine IceFrog gets voted pretty highly in these polls, even if he was a misanthropist and never spoke to anyone. You can read the Valve Employee Handbook if you want to know more. They give this as sort of a guide to new employees or potential hires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    You guys are silly, didn't you see the 1300 GPM antimage? Furion can only dream of that.
    I had 1472 GPM in a matchmaking game once.

    https://dotabuff.com/matches/18415301

  6. #3826
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    Valve has a very small amount of employees with regard to their size. Their bar for hiring people is absurdly high, they will only hire people who not only has great expertise in multiple fields - they only hire people who work really well in groups and in social situations. At Valve, nobody is your boss (not even GabeN) and very few people permanently work on one game/project (IceFrog is probably the only one constantly on Dota 2). Every so often, they have everyone vote on each others' deserved salary, and employees get paid based on the mean of these numbers. I'd imagine IceFrog gets voted pretty highly in these polls, even if he was a misanthropist and never spoke to anyone. You can read the Valve Employee Handbook if you want to know more. They give this as sort of a guide to new employees or potential hires.
    Oh that's pretty interesting. Seems like it would work well as long as the company is kept small.

    I had 1472 GPM in a matchmaking game once.

    https://dotabuff.com/matches/18415301
    Awesome, as Tiny too! Furion is so DotA1.

  7. #3827
    I watched NTH's EternaLEnVy pull 1100+ GPM as Anti-Mage on his stream a while back. >400 LH before 30 minutes. I was watching the game together with two friends in my team, we had drafted AM earlier that day. By the time our AM had Treads+Midas+Battle Fury, EV had two Battle Furies, Hand of Midas and Treads. I was a bit impressed with how well he seemed to hard carry seeing as most he ever does is staying single-digit level until lategame and stack every camp as often as possible.

  8. #3828
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    You guys are silly, didn't you see the 1300 GPM antimage? Furion can only dream of that.
    I'll just leave this here and maybe you can understand my post:

  9. #3829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Awesome, as Tiny too! Furion is so DotA1.
    Fed carry-Tiny is just fucking disgusting. Completely game-breaking, though I guess if you let him farm for 40 minutes you deserve it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  10. #3830
    I typed out a big post about how Tiny is the best hero ever but decided not to post it. Suffice to say avalance and toss make it impossible to stop him from farming, at least somewhat. He can farm energy boots with a couple of waves the second you leave lane even if you stack the lane against him. and with just that item he can go jungling and avatoss his way to victory. His weakness, like many other burst heroes, is in his absurd cooldowns.

    And once he gets scepter I can believe 1000+ GPM in a good game. Destroying every enemy building on the map sure helps get the GPM up there.

  11. #3831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I typed out a big post about how Tiny is the best hero ever but decided not to post it. Suffice to say avalance and toss make it impossible to stop him from farming, at least somewhat. He can farm energy boots with a couple of waves the second you leave lane even if you stack the lane against him. and with just that item he can go jungling and avatoss his way to victory. His weakness, like many other burst heroes, is in his absurd cooldowns.

    And once he gets scepter I can believe 1000+ GPM in a good game. Destroying every enemy building on the map sure helps get the GPM up there.
    It's his passive more than anything else in my opinion because it's the perfect anti-carry ability on a carry that, when fed, can easily crit your entire team for 1500 damage a pop and then wander off and three-hit your rax immediately afterwards. It stuns based on proximity to Tiny rather than your hero's attack type (melee versus ranged), it stuns for a pretty significant amount of time for a passive effect (1.2s) and has no cooldown, and while BKB blocks it, you can forget about stabbing Tiny without BKB up.

    Basically, it's NA's Spiked Carapace but better.

    It's that passive combined with the frankly absurd amount of shit he gets from a single item (scepter) that makes him so ridiculous when he's fed, IMO. I mean, Tiny has to have the best scepter upgrade in the game. More damage on his Toss combo, bonus attack range, bonus cleave, AND bonus damage versus structures. If they decided Tiny needed to be nerfed, that's where I'd start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  12. #3832
    I don't know, spiked carapace is probably one of the best moves in the game in my opinion. Craggy ranks pretty high on the stupid meter, though.

  13. #3833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I don't know, spiked carapace is probably one of the best moves in the game in my opinion. Craggy ranks pretty high on the stupid meter, though.
    Spiked Carapace was a LOT better when it was more demanding on the NA's part instead of an automatic "I don't need to play mind games, I just mash buttonz lawl" skill.

    Craggy would probably be fine if it was restricted to just melee units, not anything within X distance of Tiny. They picked Tiny as a carry? np, get a ranged carry to deal with him (read: Viper.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  14. #3834
    Craggy would be fine if it procced when you hit him, not when you attack. Too many times I've hooked a Tiny only to be instastunned before I could ult and killed because it somehow makes sense for you to get stunned just for thinking about attacking a rock.

  15. #3835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Craggy would be fine if it procced when you hit him, not when you attack. Too many times I've hooked a Tiny only to be instastunned before I could ult and killed because it somehow makes sense for you to get stunned just for thinking about attacking a rock.
    Probably along the lines of you hit Tiny and rocks fall (off his ass) and everyone dies. I'm wondering how the hell those rocks fly out 300 feet in either direction in response to an arrow hitting him, though.

    But seriously, just pick Viper. Dude counters the shit out of carry Tiny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  16. #3836
    It's not like Viper and SD aren't some of the best counters for almost any melee carry as it is.



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  17. #3837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It's not like Viper and SD aren't some of the best counters for almost any melee carry as it is.
    Viper in general is in my opinion a good general pick. He lanes well in everything except for maybe solo suicide lane (probably too easy to gank), he has pretty good damage without items for the midgame, and he turns into more of a debuff-bot than an actual damage dealer for the late game. Free MR helps compensate for his relatively low base HP and literally everything he does slowing movement as well as attack speed shores up his HP in regards to physical attacks.

    Late game Viper with tank items and a scepter is just ridiculous... 80% attack and move speed slow with roughly 50% uptime that goes through BKB and has a greater than average cast range? Crazy.

    Why'd the pros stop using him? Especially with them trending towards aggressive playstyles, you'd think he'd be a popular pick. Hell, stick him mid and he'll counter the shit out of that first-pick TA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  18. #3838
    Even with nethertoxin his damage feels embarrassing for an agility hero late game. I went 3-0 against Drow the other day and ended up losing hard once she turned 6. She had CM babysit her mid for a few minutes while she caught up in CS (couldn't compete with her ultimate for last hitting at all) and once we were both around 11 she could just stand still and right click me and win even through the attack speed slow of my ult. Viper is a hero who only seems to do well when he's 8 levels higher than everyone else because he got absurdly fed early.

    I agree that his scepter is good and seems awesome on paper but he doesn't bring a whole lot else to an actual team fight and the ultimate doesn't appear to be as crippling as it sounds on several carries (like Drow who gets so damn much agility from her ult that she can fire hilariously quick even through an 80% slow).

  19. #3839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Even with nethertoxin his damage feels embarrassing for an agility hero late game. I went 3-0 against Drow the other day and ended up losing hard once she turned 6. She had CM babysit her mid for a few minutes while she caught up in CS (couldn't compete with her ultimate for last hitting at all) and once we were both around 11 she could just stand still and right click me and win even through the attack speed slow of my ult. Viper is a hero who only seems to do well when he's 8 levels higher than everyone else because he got absurdly fed early.

    I agree that his scepter is good and seems awesome on paper but he doesn't bring a whole lot else to an actual team fight and the ultimate doesn't appear to be as crippling as it sounds on several carries (like Drow who gets so damn much agility from her ult that she can fire hilariously quick even through an 80% slow).
    Yeah, but Drow's overpowered as hell last time I checked, which is why she ain't in CM. I don't consider Viper a late game hero - I think you would pick him because he's very difficult to deal with in lane and because he blooms early (vs a lot of lanes, he gets free kills as soon as he hits 6 unless they play very defensively), not because of any late-game utility he might have.

    It may just be that he falls into the same pit Razor does since most teams either pick a true carry for that slot, or go without a true carry (and instead pick something like Bounty Hunter to fill that "DPS" slot.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  20. #3840
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Viper in general is in my opinion a good general pick.
    I'd say any hero is a good pick (barring Techies), but Viper isn't all that general. His niche is pinning down single enemies and outlasting enemies (or at least in the most common playstyle), but he certainly is devastating in almost any pub game.

    Thing about Viper is that he punishes bad judgement. Like you said, in average level pub games he can easily take a kill on a badly positioned enemy, and he will punish anyone who attempts to take offensive against him and fails. It's very common for inexperienced or even experienced players to under-estimate Viper and end up dying because they thought they could kill him before he killed them or because they thought they could get away if he took the initiative.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 01:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I agree that his scepter is good and seems awesome on paper but he doesn't bring a whole lot else to an actual team fight and the ultimate doesn't appear to be as crippling as it sounds on several carries (like Drow who gets so damn much agility from her ult that she can fire hilariously quick even through an 80% slow).
    You probably know this, but for those that wonder, the attack speed slows are applied in the same way as attack speed increases before the attack time is calculated from base attack time. As in, all the attack speeds are additive with each other up to the maximum of 400 IAS. All attack speeds work the same way regardless of whether the game lists them as a % or a #. Which is why Viper's 105% (with Corrosive Skin) or Enchantress' 90% IAS reductions are very crippling to enemies who are below 100 IAS - but past, say, 200 IAS these effects become much less efficient. Which would be why late game Drow with some items and nobody at her melee range wouldn't really care that much about Viper Strike. Same reason why I've said Tiny with rank 3 ultimate is a rather pitiful right-clicker until he gets enough IAS to ignore the ultimate reduction.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2012-11-30 at 04:49 PM.



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