[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

Anything replaced him, CK is terrible. One AoE hero to clean out his ult and he's done for. And you don't even really need that, as long as you can just force his ult and back off for 20 seconds. As far as early game power goes, there are also certainly better picks. Wasn't really a big hero in DotA1, I'm surprised he had any moment of glory in 2 at all. When heroes like TC come out you'll see even less of him.

His illusions take less damage than virtually all other illusions and he gets a LOT of health with just a couple of cheap items like armlet and drums, and he can easily crit for 700+ with just drums and armlet with the free crit. Yeah, if you wipe out his ulti illusions he loses his big teamfight potential, it's going to take more than one or two spells to kill illusions with 1400 effective health (unless magnus, hurr hurr.)

Mostly I just don't see why he isn't used interchangeably with Luna since they both seem to fill the same role of aggressive mid-game carry. I guess Luna has the advantage in lane of being ranged, but she's also made out of paper while CK is actually pretty tanky. Also, dat 4 sec stormbolt.

[Lysah]

Yeah, but Luna's ultimate can team fights by itself, CK's ultimate can be dealt with. Luna also farms way harder than CK whose farm is actually pretty terrible. Lastly, CK is all RNG, quite literally, right down to his damage range, so while you can get crit for 700 at level 8 with him having nothing but treads and a bracer (this happened to me a few days ago actually) it requires him to not only get his lucky crit with a terrible % chance but also roll the top end of his damage roll on that attack, pretty nonexistant and not what you want your team relying on to win a fight. CK's biggest strength is being able to level a base with his ultimate but if you want pushing ability you have plenty of other heroes who can do the same or better (tiny, PL, syllabear, troll, clinkz...). I would give him "does well in lane phase" but he's not really that hard to stop.

[Longview]

Luna cleans up ancient stacks quick, ck can't do that for shit. It has been my experience that ck also needs more farm than Luna to even pose a threat, and Luna is easier to get farm with. In most ways a safer card as Luna also has better pushing and racks just melt where ck needs his ultimate.

Pairing wisp with Lifestealer or Tiny makes more sense than ck, Tiny's combo is much quicker to kill someone with, and with Naix you can teleport three people. Or maybe my team just blows with ck, idunno

edit: please excuse my poor formatting and sentence structure, my phone's stock browser is awful and it'd take more time to fix than it'd be worth

[Lysah]

Whatever happened to wisp/centaur, that was so meta in d1.

[PizzaSHARK]

Luna cleans up ancient stacks quick, ck can't do that for shit. It has been my experience that ck also needs more farm than Luna to even pose a threat, and Luna is easier to get farm with. In most ways a safer card as Luna also has better pushing and racks just melt where ck needs his ultimate.

Pairing wisp with Lifestealer or Tiny makes more sense than ck, Tiny's combo is much quicker to kill someone with, and with Naix you can teleport three people. Or maybe my team just blows with ck, idunno

edit: please excuse my poor formatting and sentence structure, my phone's stock browser is awful and it'd take more time to fix than it'd be worth

I'm definitely wondering why Tiny disappeared. I can understand not picking him when Wisp is banned, but it's not like carry Tiny has a particularly weak early game... he still has that colossal burst from his combo, even if it's harder to use since he skips blink.

Whatever happened to wisp/centaur, that was so meta in d1.

Centy isn't in CM yet, is he? Wouldn't mind seeing Double Edge cost 25-35 mana...

[Lysah]

Dunno, I never see Centaur picked in pubs, only games I get him in are randoms in -ar. People are too busy picking the flavor of the month carry + batrider + naix.

[Maruka]

I really need to stop playing after 6 beer, i wake up with 5 straight losses everytime >.>

[Charge me Doctor]

I really need to stop playing after 6 beer, i wake up with 5 straight losses everytime >.>

Only five? I've got 11, meh, 4 of these games was less than 15 minute abandoned games by other people so they don't count =(

[PizzaSHARK]

Dunno, I never see Centaur picked in pubs, only games I get him in are randoms in -ar. People are too busy picking the flavor of the month carry + batrider + naix.

Well, I don't play AP or AR anymore, but I see Centy regularly in RD and he's common in SD. He's still a really good hero. To be honest I think Double Edge is overpowered without a small mana cost, but the hero is overall pretty well balanced now. His ulti is super strong without being overpowered

[Lysah]

NA breaks him like he breaks any other burst hero. Nothing like reflecting a double edge and watching centaur hit himself for 800 damage.

[PizzaSHARK]

NA breaks him like he breaks any other burst hero. Nothing like reflecting a double edge and watching centaur hit himself for 800 damage.

Carapace just bothers the hell out of me because it affects even "passive" damage sources like Veno's poison sting, March of Machines, etc - so you can basically be rewarded for bad play. I've gotten a Jakiro killed by intentionally walking into an Ice Path I dodged. That just feels really stupid to me.

Also:



Those picks. Lion, OD, Weaver. Also, Clockwerk is really strong; I'm not sure why you think he isn't. He's so tanky with almost no items, and even does a lot of damage if he can snatch a single target in a cogs with battery assault up, though that damage doesn't scale into the late game.

[potis]

Played 11 games or so last few days, like 9 wins 2 loses or so, and frankly a surrender option needs to be implemented asap, both loses were the same reason, 0-3 in less than 2 mins and leave, or the opposite time had one of those.

Out of the 11 games only 2 of them can be called games, the rest was some feeder trash on each team that left, it was a game over already with scores like 10-0 in 12mins on carry with something like 20-1 or 20-2 overall score but generally people leave games A LOT compared to any other moba, either implement a surrender option or a severe punishment for leaving.

As example my last game, 2mins ago and the second lose.. fails picks, QoP went bottom solo 0-1 15 seconds after creeps arrived the lane 0-2, 20 seconds after, has left the game..I left the game at minute 5:55, aka 5 mins after he left, those kind of retards need a proper punishment considering he leveled Q instead of blink on solo lane QoP but yeah, community is fine, only everyone just leaves and barely any game is played properly!

[Lysah]

@pizza
Try being centaur.

Jungling them creeps, suddenly NA ult. Stunned, getting ready to move, expecting that carapace, sure enough there it is BUT WAIT - when he auto attacks you, you do damage to him with return so you're instantly stunned again. 7 seconds of stun you literally can't avoid. Nice.

[Hermanni]

If you're still wondering why that CK isn't being picked - besides the obvious answer of trend shifting - just take a look at heroes that are popular now. Then consider how you usually deal with CK. You can AoE his illusions. You can jump him before he can ulti or BKB - heroes like Void or Sven could just BKB up and not give a fuck (assuming you didn't kill them), but if you take away CK's HP before he can ult his fight is pretty much over. Or you can just control or outmaneuver his ultimate like Lysah said.

KotL is a top pick and between Illuminate, Mana Leak and Blinding Light he pretty much shits on CK. Heroes like Batrider can initiate on him. Between those 2 and Magnus, Nyx, QoP, Gyro, Luna and Puck I would hesitate to pick CK, too.

---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 05:38 AM ----------

everyone just leaves and barely any game is played properly!

It's been said here a few times but it gets better after you get some games played and a bit higher MMR. I see leavers in less than 5% of my games.

[PizzaSHARK]

I'm trying to figure out if armlet is any good on Ursa instead of Vlad's. I'm just not a fan of Vlad's because aside from the free Roshan, it doesn't feel like it's really all that good. I feel like armlet worked very well on him, but two of my teammates had no clue how to play and spent all game flaming me, Tusk, and Rubick for not being retarded and fighting in Krob ulti, so I'm not sure if that game was valid :/


But with armlet and lothars, you have 55 IAS; IAS maybe isn't really the best stat for Ursa, but it reduces reliance on Overpower for hits and since I max Earth Shock before Overpower and play aggressively, it feels really useful. Armlet also provides a huge amount of HP on demand (more dmg from ulti) and a pretty sizable boost to damage, along with the regen and armor.

Mostly I'm trying it because I don't like Vlad's rush, and I don't think there are any items that build from Ring of Health that are any good for Ursa; maybe Vanguard, but why buy Vanguard when you can buy Armlet?

[Deleted]

But with armlet and lothars, you have 55 IAS; IAS maybe isn't really the best stat for Ursa, but it reduces reliance on Overpower for hits and since I max Earth Shock before Overpower and play aggressively, it feels really useful. Armlet also provides a huge amount of HP on demand (more dmg from ulti) and a pretty sizable boost to damage, along with the regen and armor.

Mostly I'm trying it because I don't like Vlad's rush, and I don't think there are any items that build from Ring of Health that are any good for Ursa; maybe Vanguard, but why buy Vanguard when you can buy Armlet?

How do you have enough mana for multiple Earth Shocks? If you go for Earth Shock early, why not try a Phase Drums build? However, I think Ursa's strength comes from his ability to Rosh, get experience, gold and an extra life early and you need items to jungle. Vlad's help with that early game.

[Lysah]

Ursa's strength definitely comes from his ability to Rosh. Force a team fight top and Roshan while your team dies, even if they get 4 for 0 the roshan will give you 4 levels and half of a Lothar's if you do it around 10 minutes. You finish Lothar's and run around 5 levels higher than everyone else and three shot people until you have orchid/sheeper + heart + BKB if you need it and win the game. Ursa is the kind of hero that does his best in his team when he's breaking legs so his team can catch up/outfarm the enemy team, playing him like a true carry and expecting to be actually useful in team fights is setting yourself up to fail. Armlet is a creative idea but I would never not go vlads, to be honest. And after vlads there simply too many items more important than a bit of hp/damage, such as offensive CC and defense.

[PizzaSHARK]

Is it just me, or is Dota more fun to talk about and maybe watch than it is to play? It seems like I'll talk about unconventional hero builds, or want to try something interesting seen in a pro game, I queue up... and it's nothing but frustration the whole way through.

I'm past the point where leavers and Cyrillic/Portuguese spammers are common (outside of certain times of day), but it still seems like most of my teammates are not just generally bad at the game, but they're also complete assholes, too. I don't care if people are bad at the game as long as they're fun to play with, but when the only thing they say all game is "stop feed noob", it just makes it feel like there's not much to be gained by playing.

[Lysah]

No one is stopping you from screwing around in games. I've had some really fun games lately, one I promised during picks to go dagon with whatever hero I randomed (got tusk it actually worked out). I went blinkin' slammin' storm spirit another game. Surprisingly, it feels a lot easier to win in these games too. Or maybe I just don't remember losing games I screw around in because I still had fun either way.

I've had games where we did a 5 man roam strategy from level 1 and of course everyone tries 5 man pushing from time to time. You can't get pubs to go along with you all the time but nothing stops YOU from going shadow blade omniknight if you feel like it. Despite how much your team might cry, not buying support items as a "support hero" is not a legitimate reason for the team to lose anyway.

[PizzaSHARK]

No one is stopping you from screwing around in games. I've had some really fun games lately, one I promised during picks to go dagon with whatever hero I randomed (got tusk it actually worked out). I went blinkin' slammin' storm spirit another game. Surprisingly, it feels a lot easier to win in these games too. Or maybe I just don't remember losing games I screw around in because I still had fun either way.

I've had games where we did a 5 man roam strategy from level 1 and of course everyone tries 5 man pushing from time to time. You can't get pubs to go along with you all the time but nothing stops YOU from going shadow blade omniknight if you feel like it. Despite how much your team might cry, not buying support items as a "support hero" is not a legitimate reason for the team to lose anyway.

Intentionally ruining games by doing stupid shit doesn't really seem like it'd do anything but make the problem worse.