1. #10101
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjalar View Post
    Trying to make it look like a trend that supports are shit and people lose because of them will always get you flamed. What else did you expect from making blanket statements like that?
    Trying to make it look like a trend? No! All I have said, in all of this, is that some supports out there, that sometimes occur, have certain tendencies. If you guys are literally flaming me because you didn't read then that's pretty frigging rude, innit?

  2. #10102
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Tower dives aren't difficult. And trust me, you'll call bullshit when you see someone who knows their mechanics such that they can abuse it.
    Never seen this happen in my ~2000 games. Do share replay.

  3. #10103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Never seen this happen in my ~2000 games. Do share replay.
    I've played ~500 games of Dota 2 and have seen the skillful version of a Tower Dive a handful of times. Have you never really seen a ~100 HP hero retreat from an enemy tower, only to survive because he reset the Tower's focus on his creeps? Of course, if your Tower Dive takes too long (speaking seconds) then the Tower will hit you for more than once.

  4. #10104
    Quote Originally Posted by cannibalrat View Post
    I've played ~500 games of Dota 2 and have seen the skillful version of a Tower Dive a handful of times. Have you never really seen a ~100 HP hero retreat from an enemy tower, only to survive because he reset the Tower's focus on his creeps? Of course, if your Tower Dive takes too long (speaking seconds) then the Tower will hit you for more than once.
    Yeah, but that's normal. That's not abusing. That's just dropping aggro after you kill the enemy. I meant while you are killing enemy.

  5. #10105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Yeah, but that's normal. That's not abusing. That's just dropping aggro after you kill the enemy. I meant while you are killing enemy.
    Even if you perfected tower aggro, it wouldn't be that effective. Tower aggro would still go back to you every single time you attack-commanded an enemy hero, given that the cool down on aggro change has come off. I cannot remember the exact number, and I am unable to check since my computer broke down (looking it up on my phone would cause this entire post to disappear), but at best you would be able to dodge every other attack. That is, of course, if the creeps are hitting something, and not chasing the heroes due to aggro.

    What you're describing needs a lot of variables to even happen, and is at best ineffective to the point of where you would be wasting your attention.

  6. #10106
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjalar View Post
    Again - I agree. But trying to imply that pulling makes it easy for opponents to gank a carry is... rather strange, to say the least (I'm talking about Drunkenvalley's posts).
    Pulling does make it easier if your presence is all that is keeping your enemies from taking an opening on your carry.

    What people are kind of not accounting for in here is that different kind of lanes have different priorities, even for traditional support-carry safelane setups. If you're playing 2v1, your priorities as a support are to prevent the enemy hero from getting much gold/xp, preventing the enemy hero from disrupting your carrys farming and maybe putting some pressure towards runes/mid if you're not needed for the first two. If you're playing 2v2, your first priority is to make sure that your carry can't be killed, then to make your carry space to farm through your presence and then to somehow try to minimize what your enemies are getting.

    In a 2v2 you shouldn't be pulling unless the lane is pushed far out, and even then you moving back to pull often means that your carry can't risk going close to the creepwave when backup isn't near. If you pull unnecessarily when creeps are at your tower, you're still risking that your carry gets dived or loses too many lasthits to tower or takes too much damage. If 2 players contest your pull while your carry is farming you can't do anything, and a ruined pull pushes the lane back to enemy tower again.

    In 2v1 if you really want that courier upgrade by 1:30, then you'll have to pull the second creepwave. That means you barely get to show your face on the lane after creeps clash, giving the enemy solo hero plenty of space to piss your carry off and get some easy farm. Pulling the second wave also means that you don't even know if the lane is pushing out or not, and even top tier carry players can miss lasthits to tower early on. I'd say it would be much easier to just ask to lasthit off your carry at this point than giving the enemy offlane that much space while potentially hurting your carry just so you can kill a few jungle creeps. It's good to remember that if the enemy hero is being kept out of xp range and thus can't mess with the creeps then half the reason for pulling is null. You normally shouldn't start pulling just for your own benefit until you're certain that the enemy hero isn't going to be a problem or if there's nothing else you can do about them.
    Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-08-20 at 04:04 PM.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Lysah reigns supreme!

  7. #10107
    Moderator Kerdoz's Avatar
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    Timbersaw is so god damn op in pubs!

    Played him last match. http://dotabuff.com/matches/280826044

    I had complete free farm from the start, was in safe lane with AA against solo Slardar

  8. #10108
    Mechagnome senkyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerdoz View Post
    Timbersaw is so god damn op in pubs!

    Played him last match. http://dotabuff.com/matches/280826044

    I had complete free farm from the start, was in safe lane with AA against solo Slardar
    I wouldn't say OP, but it's really a lot of fun. Unfortunately 90% of the time in pubs people pick 2-3 carries immediately and I prefer to go for something more supportive then Timbersaw, but on the rare occasions I got to play him I really enjoyed him regardless if the game went well for my team or not. I guess it's because he is so spammy and you are constantly throwing something or yourself around which makes him feel much more action packed then most heroes.
    Last edited by senkyen; 2013-08-20 at 10:34 AM.

  9. #10109
    I find timber and storm to be the most fun, storm just takes a bit longer to get going.

  10. #10110
    Quote Originally Posted by reighnman View Post
    I find timber and storm to be the most fun, storm just takes a bit longer to get going.
    Wouldn't recommend Skill Spirit to anyone, you literally have to be Dendi to pull off this challenging hero.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Lysah reigns supreme!

  11. #10111
    Anyone else having ridiculously long queues today?

    Searching for a game for the past 15 min and nothing, what the hell

  12. #10112
    I think matchmaking has been wonky for everyone recently. Queues seem to be a lot longer these days.

    Also, is there any hero that's viable, and that isn't hated by everyone for some particular reason?

  13. #10113
    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    I think matchmaking has been wonky for everyone recently. Queues seem to be a lot longer these days.

    Also, is there any hero that's viable, and that isn't hated by everyone for some particular reason?
    Yesterday i had a game where the enemy team had someone playing their first game. I've played 500 games, so you'd think i'd get enemies a bit more challenging, but there was also a guy in my team with 1300 games - so yeah, the MM is a bit broken at the moment i think. I felt sorry for that Visage though, we decided to stop ganking him in the end since he was already bearing the full force of his team.

  14. #10114
    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    I think matchmaking has been wonky for everyone recently. Queues seem to be a lot longer these days.

    Also, is there any hero that's viable, and that isn't hated by everyone for some particular reason?
    what do you mean? I don't particularly hate any hero (besides techies, fuck techies.)

  15. #10115
    Storm "Skill" Spirit, for example. A lot of people seem to hate him. Same with Spirit Breaker, I hear a lot of people say he's OP.

    I also played Weaver and Treant a bit before they were suddenly overpowered. It just seems people have beef with a lot of heroes.

  16. #10116
    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    Storm "Skill" Spirit, for example. A lot of people seem to hate him. Same with Spirit Breaker, I hear a lot of people say he's OP.

    I also played Weaver and Treant a bit before they were suddenly overpowered. It just seems people have beef with a lot of heroes.
    People hate heroes which they don't know how to play against. Storm is powerful if played well, but it's also very easy to counter him. Spirit Breaker is an amazing if your enemy don't have vision or report their misses, or know how to stop the charge before it hits the target.

  17. #10117
    Counter Storm Spirit? Okay.

  18. #10118
    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    Storm "Skill" Spirit, for example. A lot of people seem to hate him. Same with Spirit Breaker, I hear a lot of people say he's OP.

    I also played Weaver and Treant a bit before they were suddenly overpowered. It just seems people have beef with a lot of heroes.
    I never thought Storm Spirit was hard to fight against.

    I'd say there are many ''viable'' heroes that aren't hated. Hell, I haven't even seen people hating on PL or Void lately.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Counter Storm Spirit? Okay.
    Well, did they change Storm from his WC3 Dota counterpart?

    Because if they didn't, I don't see how he is OP at all? He's definitely good, but not game breaking in any way.

  19. #10119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Counter Storm Spirit? Okay.
    Dont let him snowball and gank him two or three times before he gets six? I dont think I ever saw a game where storm was a factor (or atleast for next 20 minutes) if he didnt get his early farm and levels.

  20. #10120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Counter Storm Spirit? Okay.
    Mana Leak, AM, or any melee illusion hero with Diffusual will absolutely destroy Storm Spirit. And actually, even someone with a decent disable, or chain stun (e.g. ES) is enough to stop SS in his tracks. Storm's strength comes from his insane mobility, the ability to disrupt targetting and pretty nifty sustained burst, but if you stop him from doing that or deprive him of mana, he's useless.

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