End Game and Survive-ability of Swtor?

[Mittori]

Long time wow player, picked up Swtor launch day after playing in the beta. Loved what I saw. Yet something was missing and I continued to play wow. Slowly but surely I lost all interest in Swtor, and am back full time in wow.

2 things I noticed, maybe someone can inform me of differently.
-While the environments and voice acting really emerge you in the world, the boss fights are SUPER stale and very lackluster. Im wondering as I hit 30 on two characters before I stopped, how is end game? Is it more interesting? Worth picking back up again?
-Everyday I logged on, I saw less and less people in the areas I was questing, and this was from launch. I have friends who play it and said that they have problems finding enough to even raid at end game, is this true for all realms? or just that one (Bergen Colony)?

I really wanted to like it, anyone else get a similar feeling?

[OhpUldum]

I watched a couple buddies do the hard mode operations at 50 and it looks pretty entertaining. The boss fights are pretty much cookie cutter raid boss encounters though, really just comes down to enjoying the group of people you are with. If you're having fun with other players then you tend to overlook the cookie cutterish fights.

I would personally keep leveling as the upcoming patch 1.2 in April should implement a lot of very nice features and it will be releasing new flashpoints for level 50's, as far as I know.

I also saw the population of my first server steadily decrease. Unfortunately it has left me with 3 level 30's on a low population realm. For the time being I've set them aside until server transfers are available or if server mergers occur. I recently created a new character on a high population realm and have been enjoying the game again because of it. I'm able to find groups, chat with people while questing, and I'm able to get the massively multiplayer portion of the game back because of it. I'd strongly suggest you do the same and move to a high pop server.

[Vexies]

it largely depends on the realms you play on. My own seems very strong still with a healthy end game scene and I have never had problems finding people for groups. As for boss fights, The lower lvl flash points are fairly simplistic but the fights uptick in difficulty as well as variety. There are some truly tank and spank fights but there are some that I feel are fairly unique and are damn fun as well. Personally I find a lot of the 4 man flashpoint content (Higher lvl ones) more challenging. As far as raids / operations go you have a = mix of simplistic and fun fights. I really like Gharj the second fight in EV, the pylon puzzle encounter and SoA as well (Despite his bugs) the fight is very entertaining and reasonably complex. In Karagga's place my favorite hands down has to be the puzzle boss, which will not over complex the interaction between the team solving the firing sequence and the dps / tanking team on the bottom lvl add a nice element of team work that I find very entertaining.

All in all it depends on what your looking for. I see them growing and a lot of promise in the end game shown through what they have dared to do with a few fights here and there and look forward to the more complex encounters they promised to come in the next raid. Its a growing game that shows promise but not easily judged by the lower lvl experience at all in my opinion.

[Dakia]

End-game fights really are rather basic when compared to those in WoW. *The primary reason for the difference is the fact that WoW had mods like DBM, etc. *Such mods allow the devs to create complex fights that simply aren't possible without the crutch of such an addon. *And to be clear, yes DBM is a crutch. *Not all mods are, but that one certainly is. *Sure, some people don't use it, but I guarantee that at least the raid lead uses it and the majority of the raiders in the group do as well.

In terms of finding a group for OPs, I think it is likely a server population thing on that specific server. *Then again, I'm in a guild and don't pug so it really isn't something that I bother myself with.

[RoninaThorstone]

Long time wow player, picked up Swtor launch day after playing in the beta. Loved what I saw. Yet something was missing and I continued to play wow. Slowly but surely I lost all interest in Swtor, and am back full time in wow.

2 things I noticed, maybe someone can inform me of differently.
-While the environments and voice acting really emerge you in the world, the boss fights are SUPER stale and very lackluster. Im wondering as I hit 30 on two characters before I stopped, how is end game? Is it more interesting? Worth picking back up again?
-Everyday I logged on, I saw less and less people in the areas I was questing, and this was from launch. I have friends who play it and said that they have problems finding enough to even raid at end game, is this true for all realms? or just that one (Bergen Colony)?

I really wanted to like it, anyone else get a similar feeling?

Its funny. As i read this there's 2 pick up raids in fleet general forming on my server. (IC)

[rigoremortis]

Long time wow player, picked up Swtor launch day after playing in the beta. Loved what I saw. Yet something was missing and I continued to play wow. Slowly but surely I lost all interest in Swtor, and am back full time in wow.

2 things I noticed, maybe someone can inform me of differently.
-While the environments and voice acting really emerge you in the world, the boss fights are SUPER stale and very lackluster. Im wondering as I hit 30 on two characters before I stopped, how is end game? Is it more interesting? Worth picking back up again?

of course "boss" fights at 30 are stale, its lvl effing 30, lol. And yes, it gets a lot more interesting, and is worth picking back up, unless you just wanna sit around in org and boring ass DS all day, lol.

-Everyday I logged on, I saw less and less people in the areas I was questing, and this was from launch. I have friends who play it and said that they have problems finding enough to even raid at end game, is this true for all realms? or just that one (Bergen Colony)?

I really wanted to like it, anyone else get a similar feeling?

it could be your server, check its status before selecting it and seeing the population rating on it, if its' low all the time, then you might be on a "bad" server, much larger chances are that people are already 50 and lvled much faster than you did, so it would appear that there are "fewer" people in the lvling zones because fewer people are needing to hit 50. now its pretty much just alts i see when lvling mine on my server.

but then again, my server is heavy pop and seems to be doing just fine, the regular mode operations are relatively easy, but nightmare mode 16m is where its at

Watch the bashing of games. I realize what you are saying is meant lightheartedly but there is a fine line. - Cula

[Vegemeat]

End-game fights really are rather basic when compared to those in WoW. *The primary reason for the difference is the fact that WoW had mods like DBM, etc. *Such mods allow the devs to create complex fights that simply aren't possible without the crutch of such an addon. *And to be clear, yes DBM is a crutch. *Not all mods are, but that one certainly is. *Sure, some people don't use it, but I guarantee that at least the raid lead uses it and the majority of the raiders in the group do as well.

In terms of finding a group for OPs, I think it is likely a server population thing on that specific server. *Then again, I'm in a guild and don't pug so it really isn't something that I bother myself with.

A timer is a crutch? Because that's basically all DBM does, it keeps track of timers for you. Next you're gonna tell me that the stopwatch addon is a crutch and the cooldown timer is a crutch because it helps me keep track of the cd's on abilities.

Please, as a mod, you shouldn't be making sweeping statements like they are fact, lord knows you've warned me for saying less stupid things on this forum

[Dakia]

A timer is a crutch? Because that's basically all DBM does, it keeps track of timers for you. Next you're gonna tell me that the stopwatch addon is a crutch and the cooldown timer is a crutch because it helps me keep track of the cd's on abilities.

Please, as a mod, you shouldn't be making sweeping statements like they are fact, lord knows you've warned me for saying less stupid things on this forum

What else would you call something that points out every ability, the time it is going to happen, who it is targeting, etc? *Being a mod doesn't make me any different from anyone else. *I have my own opinions that certainly might differ from the other mods of this forum as well.

I'm all for addons, but realistically, the lack of such informational addons likely one of the main reason that fights are so simplistic. *The other likely reason is the fact that this is their first attempt at raid encounters. *Luckily, things are going to become more difficult with 1.2

[Harnace]

Endgame operations are quite fun, the mechanics are fun and different from each encounter. But on the downside, you kill the bosses too fast since it's pretty easy, but it's very enjoyable.

You just kill bosses too fast atm, and clear the whole instance in a few hours, and since you clear them so fast, you don't have a lot of stuff to do at 50.

[rigoremortis]

End-game fights really are rather basic when compared to those in WoW. *The primary reason for the difference is the fact that WoW had mods like DBM, etc. *Such mods allow the devs to create complex fights that simply aren't possible without the crutch of such an addon. *And to be clear, yes DBM is a crutch. *Not all mods are, but that one certainly is. *Sure, some people don't use it, but I guarantee that at least the raid lead uses it and the majority of the raiders in the group do as well.

In terms of finding a group for OPs, I think it is likely a server population thing on that specific server. *Then again, I'm in a guild and don't pug so it really isn't something that I bother myself with.

the problem with DBM and blizzard has even said this, is that they had to start designing encounters/raids AROUND DBM, and not vice versa. and i believe the designers @ bioware dont want to get into that pitfall just yet.


but ya, its to be expected they wont be as "complex" as current wow. i think what a lot of people seem to forget or take for granted is that WoW didnt start off as amazing encounter wise as EQ, it built the difficulty/complexity/whatever you wanna call it, of the fights over the years. thats how these games build longevity, you cant start off with "awesome/amazing" because then people will never have something to look forward to and are always going to say "oh, well that raid sucked compared to the last one" blah blah blah, etc etc, lol

[Dakia]

the problem with DBM and blizzard has even said this, is that they had to start designing encounters/raids AROUND DBM, and not vice versa. and i believe the designers @ bioware dont want to get into that pitfall just yet.

Ah yes, that is what I was getting at.

[Voidence]

What else would you call something that points out every ability, the time it is going to happen, who it is targeting, etc? *Being a mod doesn't make me any different from anyone else. *I have my own opinions that certainly might differ from the other mods of this forum as well.

I'm all for addons, but realistically, the lack of such informational addons likely one of the main reason that fights are so simplistic. *The other likely reason is the fact that this is their first attempt at raid encounters. *Luckily, things are going to become more difficult with 1.2

I agree, DBM is a crutch, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. For anyone who thinks that DMB is not a crutch, Next time your in a HEROIC raid in WoW, Make everyone turn it off. I'm willing to be money that someone will fail at something because DMB didint tell them to move.

[Angella]

I see no meaningful difference between max lvl woW bosses and SWTOR bosses. *They all do basically the same things. *Some WoW bosses have more phases or more abilities to remember, but so what? *The people who stand in a fire in WoW still stand in fires in SWTOR.

[Deleted]

Encounter design really isn't all that great in this game yet. These ones that do have interesting mechanics also tend to be very buggy.

That said, encounter design is something that will no doubtlessly improve over time since it has a lot to do with developer experience.

Going from Eternity Vault to Karagga's Palace is already a step up encounter-wise and I'm sure the trend will continue.

[Vegemeat]

I agree, DBM is a crutch, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. For anyone who thinks that DMB is not a crutch, Next time your in a HEROIC raid in WoW, Make everyone turn it off. I'm willing to be money that someone will fail at something because DMB didint tell them to move.

DBM tells you to move? You must be confusing DBM with another addon, DBM is a timer and nothing more. You're a liar if you think it's a crutch.

[Koalachan]

dbm tells you to move? You must be confusing dbm with another addon, dbm is a timer and nothing more. You're a liar if you think it's a crutch.

"run away little girl, run away"

[Dakia]

DBM tells you to move? You must be confusing DBM with another addon, DBM is a timer and nothing more. You're a liar if you think it's a crutch.

DBM does tell you to move.

[Deleted]

DBM does tell you to move.

A person who needs "RUN LITTLE GIRL, RUN AWAY" to notice he's standing in a fucking fire is not doing heroic raids anyway, because if you start moving after damage has ticked you fucked up and probably are going to die anyway.

DBM and similar mods are timers and not much else for HM raiders.

[Arlee]

A person who needs "RUN LITTLE GIRL, RUN AWAY" to notice he's standing in a fucking fire is not doing heroic raids anyway, because if you start moving after damage has ticked you fucked up and probably are going to die anyway.

DBM and similar mods are timers and not much else for HM raiders.

That is a sweeping statement that can not be backed up... I don't know of any high end guilds that do not insist on their raiders using DBM, and guess what it does tell you when you need to move or do something else just before it happens. A great example would be Ultraxion and fading light. DBM actually counts down the seconds of the buff to you, so that it is easier to hit heroic will at the last second and maximize your dps. On other fights it pops up the message "Move Now" BEFORE the bad thing happens. Maybe you don't use it for anything but timers, but stating that anyone doing heroic raids doesn't make use of the tools they have is naive.

[Vegemeat]

That is a sweeping statement that can not be backed up... I don't know of any high end guilds that do not insist on their raiders using DBM, and guess what it does tell you when you need to move or do something else just before it happens. A great example would be Ultraxion and fading light. DBM actually counts down the seconds of the buff to you, so that it is easier to hit heroic will at the last second and maximize your dps. On other fights it pops up the message "Move Now" BEFORE the bad thing happens. Maybe you don't use it for anything but timers, but stating that anyone doing heroic raids doesn't make use of the tools they have is naive.

Sorry, I don't play with sound so your statement is just as sweeping. I've never seen DBM tell me to move out of anything, perhaps you think it's a crutch simply because you need something to complain about. The fact that swtor doesn't need a similar mod at this point proves the point that the end game in swtor is so generic a monkey can do it (similar to the LFR threads)