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  1. #1
    High Overlord Althire's Avatar
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    Sage 0/13/28 Hybrid [Guide]

    I have decided to revisit this guide and update it for the current 1.5 patch .

    This is a guide for PVE

    I will start this off with a brief description of what this spec gives you:

    The main reason for going with this spec is the mobility and the DPS it gives you, with this spec you will only have one ability with a cast time and that is Telekinetic Throw the rest of your abilities will be instant and do 20% more damage because of Presence of Mind.

    So the spec looks like this Hybrid 1/12/28



    Telekinetics:

    Here are the talents picked up in this tree with a reason to why and also if they can be changed around.

    You are only trying to get to the third tier in this tree to pick up Psychic Projection

    The first two are pretty much a must for any sage spec but I will still put them here.

    Tier 1

    Inner Strength: As this build has no extra force re-gen mechanic 3 points in here really helps with 9% force cost reduction.

    Mental Longevity: Again here as above 2 points helps with the issues of no force regen.

    Clamoring Force: An extra 6% to two of your highest damaging abilities.

    This has been picked over re-gen and can be changed if you would like to pick up some re-gen you can have 1 point in Clamoring Force and 2 points in Concentration for the force re-gen or you could take all 3 points out and have 1 in Minds Eye for the extra range and the other two in Concentration for the force re-gen. *

    But you loose DPS for two reasons when taking the force re-gen mechanic with this spec you will loose the initial DPS boost given to you by Clamoring Force but you will also loose DPS by having to fit Disturbance into your rotation. *This choice all comes down to play style personal preference and also fight type i.e is there a long burn phase where re-gen will be needed.

    Tier 2

    Disturb Mind: As the balance spec is about keeping up your dots and that Weaken Mind crits proc Psychic Projection it's good to have extra time added to this as you can fit more higher damage abilities into your rotation before having to re-apply.

    That covers the first and second tier the only other ability in there does not add DPS and IMO is a PVP talent Telekinetic Defense

    Now for the third tier and the reason for going into this tree.

    Tier 3

    Psychic Projection: As Telekinetic Throw will be your only cast time ability you should be using making it cast faster is always better.

    Balance:

    Tier 1

    Empowered Throw: As you will be using this often to proc Presence of Mind it's good to increase it's damage.

    Jedi Resistance take less damage so helps your healers, these two points are ones you can change for personal preference you there is a total of 5 spare points in this spec and I will go though the reasons behind my choices again all preference.

    Will of the Jedi: An extra 6% willpower our main stat a must have talent.

    Tier 2

    Upheaval: As this is a very mobile spec but is dependent on Presence of Mind for it's mobility whenever you have to move without having it proc'ed you have another viable ability to use and spending points here makes the force cost to damage ratio better than not as without the chance of extra proc this ability is a waste of force.

    Critical Kinesis: As you will be casting this often it's nice to have it crit more .

    Tier 3

    Force in Balance: This is a nice targetable AOE ability that when combined with Force Suppression adds extra damage to your dots and also gives you a little heal.

    Psychic Barrier: The main reason for taking this is due to the push back reduction as the only cast time ability you use is channeled when you suffer push back it's not extending the cast time it shortens it so you cause less damage with it. *The added bonus of re-gen is good but at 1% force it's not a lot.

    Telekinetic Balance: This is taken to reach Presence of Mind more than anything but the bonus of making Telekinetic Throw have no cool down it's a no brainier for this spec.

    Tier 4

    Containment: It's nice to be able to CC that out of control add at a seconds notice.

    Presence of Mind: Now this is the bread and butter of the spec it lets you cast all your abilities instantly and with 20% extra damage.

    Tier 5

    Force Suppression: This plays well in the spec as you should keep you dots up when possible and with the use of Force in Balance you will get an extra 20% damage from your next 10 dot ticks.

    Drain Thoughts: Again dot spec any extra damage to dots is good .

    Assertion: Increasing dot duration good to save you having to re-apply.

    Tier 6

    Mental Scarring: As you will be gearing for crit with this spec this adds damage to the crit it self like surge rating does so your dots and FIB will crit harder ^^.

    They are the basic talents for the spec and the ones to take to get the most damage out of it I will now go through some some of the spare points and where is best to spend them again this is all personal preference.

    Spec Variation

    The circled abilities do not add damage but add utility and depending on play style you may want to spend them differently than I have.


    Balance
    There are five abilities here that you have to spend four of the five spare points in and they are.

    Containment: Lowers the activation time of Force Lift by [50 / 100]%. In addition, when your Force Lift breaks early from damage, the target is stunned for [1 second / 2 seconds]. This is one of my personal favorites being able to CC a mob at a seconds notice or even if you see that stray mob charge for the healer and the added stun from early break helps any tank get the agro back .

    Pinning Resolve: Reduces the cooldown of Force Stun by [5 / 10] seconds. In addition, your Force Lift affects up to [1 additional standard or weak enemy / 2 additional standard or weak enemies] within 8 meters of the target. I see this as only any use while questing or in some flashpoint but certainly does not have a place in a spec for raiding again IMO.

    Focused Insight: Causes your periodic damaging abilities that critically hit to restore [0.5 / 1]% of your total health. Now I used to run with this in my spec but after a few tests and talking to the guild healers they all seemed to be in agreement that Jedi resistance would be better 2% damage reduction compared to 1% healing from crits, although this does have a place in a questing spec when no healer is handy ^^.

    Jedi Resistance: Reduces all damage taken by [1 / 2]%. Reduce all damage taken by 2% helps healers out.

    Mind Ward: Reduces the damage taken by all periodic effects by [7.5 / 15]%. Fight specific talent if certain boss fight is DOT heavy damage might want to take this to help out the healers.

    My personal choices for balance is Jedi resistance and containment due to the instant CC and 2% damage reduction to give the healers an easier life ^^.

    Now the only other point you have spare after balance is filled is the one in
    Penetrating Light: Increases the Force critical chance by [1 / 2 / 3]%. I personally spend it here for increased crit as it is a flat 1% increase no DR and as the balance spec is built on crit nice to have extra this point can be moved to pick up more utility or even force regen if required but as you should never run out of force in this spec but the talents you could go for are:

    Immutable Force: Reduces the activation time of Deliverance by [0.25 / 0.5] seconds. If you are playing an off healer required to heal from time to time in fight this could be a good one to pick up.

    Minds Eye: Increases the maximum range of Disturbance, Telekinetic Wave and Turbulence by 5 meters. Personally as I would never use disturbance as it hits like a wet noodle I would avoid this unless full Tele spec.

    Concentration: Reduces the pushback suffered while activating Disturbance, Telekinetic Wave and Turbulence by [35 / 70]%. In addition, Disturbance has a [50 / 100]% chance to increase your Force regeneration rate by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Could be used to pick up extra regen points can also be moved from Clamoring Force for this and if off healing with Immutable Force might also help with extra regen.

    Telekinetic Wave: Sends a wave of telekinetic energy that deals 792 kinetic damage to up to 5 targets within 8 meters of the primary target. Would only take this for sentimental reasons missing the old 0/13/28 spec RIP but on a happier note could always use it as an opener ^^ :P.


    Gearing

    As this is a very crit orientated spec you will need crit and surge so when those crits hit they will be big . So stat priorities look a little like this.

    Willpower>Crit=Surge*>Power>Alacrity.

    Quote from http://sithwarrior.com/*
    Accuracy increases the chance to hit with all abilities, and after reaching a 100% hit rate, additional Accuracy reduces the target's chance to avoid/resist attacks. Force Attacks have an intrinsic 100% base accuracy, and no targets (PvE or PvP) possess force resist, so this stat is useless for Sorcerers/Sages.
    *Crit cap or soft cap is believed to be around 30% that is when diminishing returns kick in and point for point it is less useful the same happens with surge rating when you get to about 75% so aim for these numbers and after that the priority looks like this.

    Willpower>Power>Crit=Surge*>Alacrity

    Rotations and priorities.

    Rotation now this is not a simple rotation as it works on many differing factors if you have ever played a mage in wow this plays like all 3 specs combined it has the RNG of fire with the priorities of frost with a little force management thrown in like arcanes mana management.

    So you main rotation or starter rotation will look like this.

    Force in Balance
    Weaken Mind
    Telekinetic Throw
    Mind Crush only cast this with a Presence of Mind proc, cast Telekinetic Throw until it procs.
    To finish just spam Telekinetic Throw until everything either needs re-applying or is off CD.

    Only ever use Project while moving as this will eat you force right up if you try and fit into your rotation.

    Now that is your standard and also highest damage rotation things to note with this you will run out of force fairly quickly if you refresh your dots to early or cast a lot of projects except for that you should have no troubles with force unless healing and shielding.

    Now seen as that is the main rotation and everything fits around that weather it be priorities, low on force or even heavy movement this spec has a rotation to fit them all.

    So keep in mind the rotation but prioritise it this way.

    Try to keep both Weaken Mind and Mind Crush up at all times and Force in Balance every CD now for your Presence of Mind procs always cast Mind Crush if not on CD wait for use of the proc until off CD or if moving use Disturbance.

    Re-gen

    Now for the force re-gen rotation.

    Noble Sacrifice
    Force in Balance
    Weaken Mind
    Telekinetic Throw
    Mind Crush only cast this with a Presence of Mind proc, cast Telekinetic Throw until it procs.
    Telekinetic Throwx3
    Rinse and repeat.

    The above rotation should not be necessary unless you have been combat rezed or you have been putting out a lot of shields or healing.

    Movement

    Now on to movement priorities if you have to move for any reason during an encounter keep the above priorities in mind but you may also have to use other abilities depending on how long you have to move, also what is on CD when you have to move and if Presence of Mind is proc'd.

    As you don't want to stop attacking as this would be a DPS loss while moving you have a few options to continue DPS first check if Weaken Mind is applied if so do you have a Presence of Mind proc if so cast Mind Crush if on CD cast Project if on CD cast Disturbance .

    So depending on what abilities are available and how long you are moving you may need to use any combination of the above, this chart helps see it better.



    They are the basics of the rotations and only in practise can you get to grips with them and move things in where you need to use them you may even find fitting the odd Disturbance or Project in helps even out your CD's but bare in mind that Project has a high force cost and unless it proc's with Upheaval will do slightly less damage than Disturbance but these two abilities are the lowest damage for cost you have which is shown by them being very low on your priority list.

    AOE

    Force in Balance
    Forcequake
    Also apply Weaken Mind to as many targets as feasible.
    and put Mind Crush on one of the targets.
    Rinse and repeat.
    Last edited by Althire; 2012-11-19 at 03:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Nice work. I've added it to the Guides sticky



  3. #3
    High Overlord Althire's Avatar
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    ooo thanks you was not looking for a sticky was just trying share some info tyvm .

  4. #4
    I'm confused. This is not a Telekinetics build correct? This is a guide for hybrid.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althire View Post
    Willpower>Accuracy*>Crit=Surge**>Power>Alacrity
    I think you've got Accuracy in the wrong spot there.
    Last edited by Sydänyö; 2012-03-12 at 11:17 AM.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  6. #6
    Personally I use the 3/19/19 spec, it has a good combination of damage and CC. The combination of wrath + chain lightning or crushing darkness with the addition of death field make the damage output excellent whether solo or aoe and the inclusion of insta cast whirlwind, electric binding and backlash make the spec unequal in utility and CC. The inclusion of lightning effusion and sith efficacy makes force consumption a non issue I rarely dip below 80% force even when spamming force lightning + death field + chain lightning for aoe on say a node or door, in fact the only times i ever drop under is when I have dropped out of dps mode to help heal to keep people alive.

    torhead. (com)/skill-calc#201hZMsMMdMrZsMcRsMz.1

    Give it a try or not, however this is the spec ill be running until alacrity start to affect dots, at which time I will prob switch to full madness.

    Good luck and happy ganking.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Tidders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    I think you've got Accuracy and Alacrity switched up there.
    No, these 2 should simply be at the end with accuracy being last. Once you hit around 30% crit unbuffed, you would then prioritise Power=Surge*>Alacrity.
    (*until 80% after which point DR hits)

    It's generally recommended about 250-350 crit rating, 200-300 Surge rating, 100-200 Alacrity rating, and as much Power as you can get.

    Might also be worth mentioning (until they fix it I guess) is that you can squeeze a double use out of 1 Psychic Projection proc - so long as you finish the first one's channel completely, just keep mashing your key and you'll get another one out of it.

    Other than that, a very solid guide on how to play this spec - nice work!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidders View Post
    No, these 2 should simply be at the end with accuracy being last.
    Yeah, what I meant was that Accuracy isn't in the right spot there. I just thought he had swapped the two.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  9. #9
    I'm sorry but if you want an effective pvp build. remove a few from balance and give yourself survivability.

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...dMbZcMfRsMkR.1 4 points moved = 1000 lives saved.

  10. #10
    I think you are overestimating the damage contribution from force in balance, especially on fights where it is single target DPS. Assuming that you actually use FoB on cd is also flawed, since usually you will want to delay using it for when you need to either do burst damage or do aoe damage (Mind traps/karagga mine droids).

    You can take 3 points out of mental scarring and 2 out of assertion and get much more utility + Telekinetic Effusion which means you don't need to use Noble Sacrifice. Actually, if you ever have to use noble sacrifice, it should only be in the case that you die and get a battle res. The only times I end up with force issues are when I need to switch to spot healing (Frenzy on Foreman Crusher/SoA p3/Missile Barrage on X3).

    Overall I think a Telekinetic Effusion build proves to make for a much better overall quality of life in both PvE and PvP.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
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  11. #11
    High Overlord Althire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinBrothers View Post
    I'm confused. This is not a Telekinetics build correct? This is a guide for hybrid.
    Yes this is a hybrid guide that's what the title says

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-12 at 04:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    I think you've got Accuracy in the wrong spot there.
    Yes I know I forgot to revise that part of the guide and will remove accuracy now as it has no use for sages.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-12 at 04:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Emotears View Post
    Personally I use the 3/19/19 spec, it has a good combination of damage and CC. The combination of wrath + chain lightning or crushing darkness with the addition of death field make the damage output excellent whether solo or aoe and the inclusion of insta cast whirlwind, electric binding and backlash make the spec unequal in utility and CC. The inclusion of lightning effusion and sith efficacy makes force consumption a non issue I rarely dip below 80% force even when spamming force lightning + death field + chain lightning for aoe on say a node or door, in fact the only times i ever drop under is when I have dropped out of dps mode to help heal to keep people alive.

    torhead. (com)/skill-calc#201hZMsMMdMrZsMcRsMz.1

    Give it a try or not, however this is the spec ill be running until alacrity start to affect dots, at which time I will prob switch to full madness.

    Good luck and happy ganking.
    I assume with your build you are talking about PVP yeah there would be much different builds for PVP that would look like yours but this is meant to be for PVE and the damage it does is pretty high.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-12 at 04:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I think you are overestimating the damage contribution from force in balance, especially on fights where it is single target DPS. Assuming that you actually use FoB on cd is also flawed, since usually you will want to delay using it for when you need to either do burst damage or do aoe damage (Mind traps/karagga mine droids).

    You can take 3 points out of mental scarring and 2 out of assertion and get much more utility + Telekinetic Effusion which means you don't need to use Noble Sacrifice. Actually, if you ever have to use noble sacrifice, it should only be in the case that you die and get a battle res. The only times I end up with force issues are when I need to switch to spot healing (Frenzy on Foreman Crusher/SoA p3/Missile Barrage on X3).

    Overall I think a Telekinetic Effusion build proves to make for a much better overall quality of life in both PvE and PvP.
    I think your underestimating the damage from FIB as what this does it first hit for about the same as a tele wave on a single target and also make all your dots hit harder for the next 10 ticks the noble sacrifice regen is only needed in rare cases as tele throw alone will regen force.

    To take Telekinetic Effusion you will be loosing too much DPS from mental scaring also there is no need to have two regen mechanics as Psychic Barrier should give you all your regen you need the noble sacrifice rotation is for rare cases.
    Last edited by Althire; 2012-03-12 at 05:22 PM.

  12. #12
    How can you categorize Willpower as your strongest attribute and power as the weakest? All Willpower does is give more Bonus Force damage and a very very small amount of crit. As far as itemization goes, Willpower >= Power

    Power does not have diminishing returns, and when you consider that one of your DPS cooldowns (Force Potency) gives you guaranteed crits, it would seem that you are better off stacking power first. Since Rakata gear doesn't have surge on the set pieces, you might go for around 250 surge through some power/surge mods (the level 58 ones either dropped in ops or taken out of rakata weapons).
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather
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  13. #13
    High Overlord Althire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    How can you categorize Willpower as your strongest attribute and power as the weakest? All Willpower does is give more Bonus Force damage and a very very small amount of crit. As far as itemization goes, Willpower >= Power

    Power does not have diminishing returns, and when you consider that one of your DPS cooldowns (Force Potency) gives you guaranteed crits, it would seem that you are better off stacking power first. Since Rakata gear doesn't have surge on the set pieces, you might go for around 250 surge through some power/surge mods (the level 58 ones either dropped in ops or taken out of rakata weapons).
    Willpower like any primary stat is by far the strongest for any class this should help a quote from sithwarrior.com the TOR theory crafting site.

    The base stats at the moment are Strength, Aim, Cunning, Willpower, Endurance, and Presence. Of these, the only one you care about as a Sorcerer is Willpower. Every point of Willpower adds 0.2 bonus damage to attacks and 0.14 bonus healing to healing abilities. Willpower also increases Force Critical chance, with a diminishing returns curve much lower but also much shallower in benefit-per-point fall-off than crit rating. Willpower can contribute up to 30% crit to force attacks, but will limit to around 10-15% in practical terms.

    The secondary stats of interest are Power, Alacrity, Crit and Surge. Note that gear containing bonuses to Power and Crit will affect Force Power and Force Crit respectively, so there is no need to look for equipment with bonuses to this specific type of damage.
    Power / Force Power increases the bonus damage of our Force abilities much like Willpower. Currently each point of Power adds 0.23 points of Force Bonus. Force Power is functionally identical to Power for Sorcerers. Due to the conversion rate and the linear rate of return, Power is generally a sorcerer's most important stat behind Willpower.
    Also as said you only stack surge and crit to caps the yes as you said then power does become more valuable.

  14. #14
    Sadly this build is getting hit hard in 1.2. Presence of Mind no longer affects Telekinetic Wave, only Disturbance and Mind Crush:-/

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Sadly this build is getting hit hard in 1.2. Presence of Mind no longer affects Telekinetic Wave, only Disturbance and Mind Crush:-/
    As it should along with many other hybrid builds in many classes.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Helistin View Post
    As it should along with many other hybrid builds in many classes.
    WoW's talent trees got less interesting once they removed the ability to make hybrids. Lord only knows why you think removing choice is a good thing and forcing more and more people into a single spec is a good thing...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    WoW's talent trees got less interesting once they removed the ability to make hybrids. Lord only knows why you think removing choice is a good thing and forcing more and more people into a single spec is a good thing...
    Talent trees get less interesting yeah, but in reality it doesnt make any difference, everyone uses the same cookie cutter spec anyways.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Sadly this build is getting hit hard in 1.2. Presence of Mind no longer affects Telekinetic Wave, only Disturbance and Mind Crush:-/
    It will be useless in 1.2.

    But in my opinion 25/16 is better anyway. so its not too bad.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Helistin View Post
    Talent trees get less interesting yeah, but in reality it doesnt make any difference, everyone uses the same cookie cutter spec anyways.
    Umm, no, they don't. There are plenty of sorcs/sages running around with the hybrid build here and plenty running around with the full lighting/telekinetics spec, because both of them are viable. With this change, one of them is viable, and one of them is not. I ask again, why do you think this is a good thing?

  20. #20
    High Overlord Althire's Avatar
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    Here is a possible replacement spec but requires testing and I can't have a look until 1.2 if it is viable but if it is I will make a new guide or amend this one.

    As 1.2 seems to be nerfing the hybrid spec by not allowing presence of mind to affect Tele wave the next best spec I have come up with is this Hybrid 0/16/25 this plays the same as the other spec but instead of casting Tele wave on presence of mind procs you cast disturbance and hope it procs Tidal Force for your instant Tele Wave with this spec you now only loose the extra damage buff from mental scaring.

    So all in all it is the same spec just a little drop in damage from dots this is only a rough idea as the may change more with the spec as am not sure if the amount of points you need to climb each tree will remain the same.

    Spec is also untested but best bet for our current build with minimal change.

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