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  1. #1

    "We'll release it when it's ready"... does blizzard still follow that philosophy?

    Upon hearing the news about Blizz postponing the release of the PVP arena for Diablo 3, I really got to ask myself a serious question - "does Blizzard still follow their own philosophy of "we'll release the game when we feel the game is ready"?*

    Now, before I get assaulted by 123 people saying "IT's a PVE GAME!"... please hear me out as I'm actually NOT complaining about lack of PVP on a personal level. :P

    I agree that it's a PVE game and on a personal level I could care less about D3 arena PVP... but just because I don't care about PVP doesn't mean everybody doesn't either - and I know many MANY people who just love dueling in D2 and in D3 that is to be one of the major elements of the game.*

    While I never was a Warcraft/Starcraft RTS fan - wasn't Warcraft I-III, Starcraft, and Starcraft II also PVE games with a PVP element? Did those PVP elements get delayed at all?*

    When Blizz generally releases a game - they said "When we feel the GAME is perfect and ready". The GAME - as in, the entire package. Back in the RTS days, that also applied to the PVP aspects too, didn't it?*

    Now, Warcraft didn't launch with BGs or the Honor system until a later patch - but that has been forgivable as, well, it's a gigantic ginormous MMORPG. It wasn't feesable to get everything they want in there as it's supsed to be a whole WORLD of things to do, and by design it was meant to be a game that slowly grew over time with new content patches and expansions.*

    ...Diablo III isn't designed to be an expandable world, nor has the complexity of design as WoW does.

    So, why couldn't they just delay D3 for a month or three to get arena done for launch? Which (given the number of MASSIVE tweaks each D3 patch has) also gives them time to tweak the PVE content more as well.*

    The bottom line is this - Blizzard always says "We'll release it when we feel the game is done" and yet, they're deliberately postponing a major feature in D3 just to get it out the door ASAP.

    Why is it so important to get it out right now when before, back in the RTS days, it didn't matter to them how long it took until the game is, in their eyes, perfect?*

    So... DOES Blizzard still stand behind that philosophy? Because with D3 arena postponement, it sounds like they've adopted the "get it out NOW, patch it later" philosophy that every other gaming company tends to do.*
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

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    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  2. #2
    Well yes

    They arent releasing PvP when they know its not up to par, isent it a good thing that they put it back in the oven? But at the same time release what he majority want, the pve experience?

    How is it not good for everyone involved? Do the 7 PvPers who buy D3 solely for PvP really want a system that clearly is not ready? And do PvErs not want D3 earlier?

    Releasing broken PvP now just to get it out would be a bad idea
    Witholding the PvE game which as you mentioned Diablo is mostly built around is also a bad idea

    So they found a comprimise, this allows them to work more on it and bring a better product out while PvErs are happy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Into View Post
    Well yes

    They arent releasing PvP when they know its not up to par, isent it a good thing that they put it back in the oven? But at the same time release what he majority want, the pve experience?
    ...but Blizz would normally wait until the ENTIRE GAME is done to release it. That's kinda my point. This way they really WOW the crowd with a massively polished game vs just patching it up later.

    What you wrote is absolutely true, and is what EVERY OTHER game company does... and by NOT DOING what you outlined above is what set Blizz apart from the rest of the "herd".

    Blizz just worked on the game... ALL ASPECTS of the game... played it over and over and over and over... and polished it more and more and more... and THEN they release it. They knew there were no time limits on fun... they knew they can just make a game as fun as possible, and people will love it no matter what BECAUSE it was as fun as it could possibly be.

    This time it's arguable that they're not doing it.

    My point is thus... so what if the majority wants the game right now? Blizz has NEVER catered to that mentality with a new-game release... they waited until the whole game is done and then REALLY WOW everybody with the game.

    Either they release a game now and people say "Wow, this is Cool!" or they wait 2 months and release a game that people say "HOLY HELL! This is AWESOME!" A major feature such as a polished Arena could very well be the thing that takes it from a 10 to a 10++. Blizz hasn't ever strived for 10, they always went 10+++. You can argue if the "+++" is really worth the wait... and, again, THAT is what always separated Old Blizz from today. Old Blizz KNEW that 10+++ is what you wanted, that first impressions are the MOST important.
    Last edited by mvallas; 2012-03-10 at 10:05 PM.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  4. #4
    Pit Lord BoomChickn's Avatar
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    I think that the game can be released without pvp and add it in later with no repercussions due to the fact that pvp, if limited to arenas, will be entirely separate from the game world. If there is no penalty to releasing the game before it is done and patch it in later, then why not?

    But alas, I am talking only about mechanical issues, you might be leaning towards the reaction/hype aspect of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ford
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it.
    This explains a lot.

  5. #5
    it feels more like *We'll release it when its polish* They still talk about dance studio. But thats not in or planned for next xpac still. They also cut some stuff off from Cata and Wrath expanions. It sucks For diablo 3 because even know its a PvE game, PvP is very much a core aspect of any game. I'd be fine if they just took out pvp, But they removed a lot of other stuff in diablo 3 even before announceing there delaying pvp.

  6. #6
    It's possible they have tweaked this philosophy a bit. I am sure they understand that people have been waiting for Diablo III for so many years and get their hopes up right before the many times Blizzard has pushed back it's release

  7. #7
    I agree, they shouldn't release it 'til it's done. So, in the interests of getting the game done as quickly as possible, I say they should just axe PvP in its entirety.

  8. #8
    In a world where adding stuff via patching has not just become commonplace, but the norm, they've likely modified that philosophy slightly.

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  9. #9
    High Overlord TigglyBiggly's Avatar
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    Most people wouldn't be doing PVP till at least 2 months in.
    Waiting on GW2 and Z.O.E. HD collection.
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  10. #10
    But its no different than in wow, if at release they didn't put the arena in. You will still have to level up and get to the level cap and get used to it all. As well as farm up some gear. Again with how the drops work in Diablo you might have to farm for days to get the item you want/desire/need.

  11. #11
    I don't want them to release it when it's NOT ready.


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  12. #12
    Arena isn't a main part of the game... it's a side feature. They decided not to delay the rest of the game for that one aspect.

    They're still not releasing the PvP until it's ready, but since that's only a small part of the game and completely unconnected to anything else, they just didn't delay the rest of it as well.

    In the past they've delayed games to improve core aspects of the game. This isn't the same.

  13. #13
    If it was the other way around and they delayed the game because a minority really wanted "dat PvP" how do you think the reponse would be?

    Imagine if Mass Effect 3 was delayed to next year to add 10 multiplayer maps where Shepard and friends can frag each other? Biowares website would be a blaze.

    Like i wrote in the other topic, this game has had a horrific development cycle, something has gone wrong several times, there has to be massive pressure to release it fast, and that does conflict with Blizzards "release when ready". I truly believe Blizzcon was canned this year solely because of D3, everyone they have is most likely lending a hand.

    If you truly enjoy PvP, you will want it to be done well. What is the point of slapping something together that is half assed and giving it to you? You wont be happy anyway because if they think its **** and dont want it in now, then why would you or any PvPer like the PvP they put in?

    If a Mario game is delayed and they need to cut something out it will be stuff like cutscenes, few story bits, voice acting etc
    If a Modern Warfare game is delayed they need to cut story, single player stuff, remove a mission and extend a few ones etc
    If a Diablo game is delayed they need to cut PvP, its the only thing they can cut. They cant cut any of the classes, they cant cut a whole act, they cant cut much of anything but PvP.

    You can only cut the "fluff" the extra features, and if that bothers you or you dont agree that PvP really is just a measily little sprinkled on feature then please look at Diablo 2. PvP there was tacked on, they clearly spent 10 minutes doing PvP for that game. I am pretty sure they could give you that, but that is not good enough, not even acceptable anymore.

    At the end of the day, it must be hell in those offices these past few months, its crunch time and i bet most of the people there work overtime, 10-14 hour shifts on this game.

    I dont think its fair to claim that PvP is "50% of the game" that shows total ignorance and quite frankly pure idiocy when describing a Diablo game, but i do understand those PvPers who ponder "what the **** have they been doing for the past few years?" but guess what, that question is most likely being asked by their investors who expected a Q4 2011 launch. So the people in the lead will get plenty of heat...if that makes you feel any better that is.

  14. #14
    I think this is is a pretty strong example of Jay Wilson saying they wouldn't let PvP considerations get in the way of people enjoying the PvE game.

    It also shows they do still follow the "when it's ready" philosophy - they could launch it with whatever system they have now and change it later but they won't release what they feel to be an below-par feature, even if the alternative is nothing.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I think this is is a pretty strong example of Jay Wilson saying they wouldn't let PvP considerations get in the way of people enjoying the PvE game.
    That's a very good point. Blizzard did explicitly say that the PvP of Diablo is purely going to be an extra added feature for funsies, with absolutely no illusion of 'balance,' and they weren't really going to try to make it balanced either.

    With that thought freshly in mind, I mind even less that they may take the extra month or two before patching it in, just to add even more arenas and random features to it.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...but Blizz would normally wait until the ENTIRE GAME is done to release it. That's kinda my point. This way they really WOW the crowd with a massively polished game vs just patching it up later.

    What you wrote is absolutely true, and is what EVERY OTHER game company does... and by NOT DOING what you outlined above is what set Blizz apart from the rest of the "herd".

    Blizz just worked on the game... ALL ASPECTS of the game... played it over and over and over and over... and polished it more and more and more... and THEN they release it. They knew there were no time limits on fun... they knew they can just make a game as fun as possible, and people will love it no matter what BECAUSE it was as fun as it could possibly be.

    This time it's arguable that they're not doing it.

    My point is thus... so what if the majority wants the game right now? Blizz has NEVER catered to that mentality with a new-game release... they waited until the whole game is done and then REALLY WOW everybody with the game.

    Either they release a game now and people say "Wow, this is Cool!" or they wait 2 months and release a game that people say "HOLY HELL! This is AWESOME!" A major feature such as a polished Arena could very well be the thing that takes it from a 10 to a 10++. Blizz hasn't ever strived for 10, they always went 10+++. You can argue if the "+++" is really worth the wait... and, again, THAT is what always separated Old Blizz from today. Old Blizz KNEW that 10+++ is what you wanted, that first impressions are the MOST important.
    If they waited until "the ENTIRE GAME" was done than no game would have patches. Would never have or require updates. Would be perfect in every way.

    However, back here on Earth, they balance between the game being "perfect" (all the features that they can get sorted in a reasonable time to the highest level possible) and being released soon (tm) (ie, some time BEFORE the end of time).

  17. #17
    However, did everyone notice the most important entence in the post?

    we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.
    ...core solo/co-op content...just about complete.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    However, did everyone notice the most important entence in the post?
    Hold the holy shittin' phone right there, cowboy. Gimme D3

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...but Blizz would normally wait until the ENTIRE GAME is done to release it. That's kinda my point.
    But that is the entire game. In D2, there were absolutely zero features to supplement PvP other than being flagged for it. Having the occasional separate instance for 3v3's on the side doesn't make or break Diablo...
    Oswald was over hit cap.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Hold the holy shittin' phone right there, cowboy. Gimme D3
    I just checked b-net, download not available yet.

    I'll try again in an hour...and every hour therafter.

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