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  1. #81
    Stood in the Fire Tintenkiller's Avatar
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    It doesn't need to be slowed down. But it needs to change somewhat so it actually teaches you to play your class.

    Don't give me the crap that somebody leveling 1-85 learned how to play, because they didn't. Rotations and playstyle change CONSIDERABLY when you go from 82-85, because in the lower levels weird stuff is way more effective then the normal rotations you're going to use after you're done leveling. Just take shadow priests and smite healing. Dang, till lvl 80 it's more effective to dps as smite-heal than as shadow in dungeons, which means you learn nothing about how real healing is done or how shadow dps is done. And once you ding 85 and step into your first heroic dungeon you can't play neither and have to learn it. Similar for most other classes. But in my opinion this learning process of how to do it right shouldn't be done as late as lvl 85, it should be done earlier.

  2. #82
    Pit Lord aztr0's Avatar
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    The leveling process needs to speed up. I can understand your first or second toon in your entire WoW life you'd want it to be nice and slow. But once you get to alts five and on... I really don't care about the whole adventure, I just want to be max level using the least time possible.

  3. #83
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    got all my alts to 85 a few weeks back so go for it! ^^

  4. #84
    Fluffy Kitten Millennía's Avatar
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    I actually agree that it should be slowed down. I levelled a paladin alt and up until Outland you can do 2-3 dungeons and ding for each level, sometimes just 2 if there are a lot of quests. So it should be slower so people can learn a bit about their class more and get used to their abilities in time for max level.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by panalfik View Post
    I believe there are ways to make all people happy. Make the leveling process longer (but not EXTREMELY longer), so that your level actually flows with the area you're in.
    No. Why? Just No. Leveling is fine L2P lol.

  6. #86
    That`s funny because, the thing i hate the most about this game...is leveling. I mean, all the fun comes at max level in most games, sure there`s fun leveling but it`s not exactly the same. as long as i`ve played this game, every time i create a character I wish it would be 85.

    leveling to me, is just a boring grind that i hate. maybe other people enjoy it, maybe you enjoy it... I hate it. SwTOR? I loved it, I didn`t skip anything my first character. WoW isn`t the same. it`s accept this quest, read some boring quest text, go kill 25 mobs or collect some guys boots that he lost 25 times and wants to build a house out of them now.

  7. #87
    No. Leveling is already painfully boring, why would you want to slow it down? This game is 8 years old this year, leveling outside of the newest expansion pack should be simple and quick. There's no reason why you should still take 5-6 days played to get to 85 at this stage in the game's life.

    I think the 2-3 days it takes now is fine and even less so for heirlooms.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    You not learning how to play from leveling is probably not very concrete evidence that no one ever learns through leveling. I learned quite a few things that ended up being important while I was leveling, even my first character - a hunter, one of them being that if the mob starts running towards you, hit feign death. There are hunters that still don't know that, but I learned that while leveling. Some people are bad learners.

    I have an incredibly easy time playing a spec that I leveled as when I play an alt, but if I respecc it takes a lot of research and getting used to. Usually when I look up how to play a specc that I leveled as, I was already doing it right.

    Of course, me learning through leveling up is also not definitive proof, but at any rate we have established that some people do learn and some people don't.
    So you learned what feign death was from leveling, that means it taught you how to play your character? Sorry but how many abilities did you hunter regularly have to use in a raid? How many of those abilities did you learn to use, and in the correct order, while leveling?

    I think youre confusing getting familiar with a spec with learning a spec. Yes you will know ability names and have a general idea of what does what, but youre definitely not prepared for end game by going out and killing 15 wild boars over and over.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedleyazg View Post
    It should be slowed down so new players can actually learn how to play the game.
    No. This does not help in my opinion. People "learn" to play their game, by learn I mean how to max DPS for example, by seeking an external source provided by other players. Effectively these are like the game guides people can choose to buy in addition to other games.

    Blizzards provided nothing in the game to teach people how to play their to their maximum potential. Slowing the levelling with not help.

  10. #90
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Rather than slow things down, why not feature single-player instances that offer strong rewards (like high-powered blues that will last you a good while while leveling) for accomplishing a tough class quest, something that requires you to get to know your class and spec as you go? Like, let's say a fury warrior does his level 30 scenario (for want of a better term). He accepts the quest in, say, Stormwind. He ends up in a phased version of Sentinel Hill where he needs to demonstrate knowledge of his shouts, defensive cooldowns, offensive cooldowns, and when and how to use his skills (i.e., applying a twenty-second debuff that lowers damage and increases damage taken for using Whirlwind or Cleave in a single-target fight).

    In this way, you provide incentive to do the scenario, and the scenario teaches you your abilities as you level by providing a trial by fire wherein you hit the ground running and learn through trial and error, what to use in what situations.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  11. #91
    Field Marshal LastNightsLoad's Avatar
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    I quit WoW some time ago, but I still occassionally check what's going on in Azeroth.
    Why do you even care then?

  12. #92
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    With the new revamp done 1-60, No one is stopping you to level, if anything Blizz encourages you to finish the content even if you out leveled it. You get achievements for completing the new revamped zones. I also agree it doesnt teach a player how to play their class.

    This was my first toon. My first experience, really learning to use my abilities was when Blizz had class specific quest. The hunter one was the best example, couldnt use a pet, had to learn to kite, trap, and only use the shots you gave you back then(which wasnt alot). Blizz needs to bring those quests back.
    The Warrior ones were fun also.

    Someone also mentioned the fact they have grey quests and what not. Thats the problm right there. The community is so stuck on this "Color indicator" that the mindset changes. Blizz need to change that method. Make everything one color or no color. Should be applied to gear also. "OMG a purple dropped" or "OMG blues" This is what causes all these ninja looters,griefers,QQ'ers, etc.. They always want the Epics or Blues, even if its not for their class.

    Might of went off topic abit but had use to the best examples i could think of.

    I agree with both sides arguing this issue. I personally dont want my level experience slower. I hate repeatative stuff. I have 10 85s on Ally and 10's toons on Horde ranging from 30s-80s. The starting quests are cool, but then it all ties in together later on, which is boring. I've experienced it once, dont wanna do it 9 more times. Thank God for randoms.

  13. #93
    After having played this game since the release of BC, I can say that i find very little to no enjoyment in leveling whatsoever. *its a worst grind than just about any rep grind or achievement grind i can think of thus far (except maybe Insane in the Membrane), and offers little to nothing in return for this effort until you finally do grudgingly make it to endgame content (which as of late has been more and more disappointing).
    Having also played from the release of TBC, I can say that I love quests at any level. Maybe because you only think of it as "levelling up", you see it as an obstacle. I see it as 3/4 of the game, in fact I see it as the MAIN point of Wow, I want to play through it all, not skip through it as fast as possible.

    I do not want to overlevel quest zones, it's not fun. I do not want to have to run back and forth from cities turning my exp off & on. All we are calling for is an option to slow down the levelling speed to match our own playstyle.


    With the new revamp done 1-60, No one is stopping you to level, if anything Blizz encourages you to finish the content even if you out leveled it. You get achievements for completing the new revamped zones. I also agree it doesnt teach a player how to play their class.
    You dont understand. We will finish the zone even if we outlevel it BUT the problem is that itself: When we outlevel it everything becomes ridiculously easy to kill, there is no more threat, no enjoyment. If we stay to finish every zone we play in we will eventually not just outlevel our current zone, we will compltely outlevel the next zone as well. The problem gets worse and worse the higher level you get.

    My Hunter for example is lv83 and I'm only halfway though Hyjal.

    Also the achievements are awarded before you finish the zone, at about two-thirds of the way through.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2012-03-11 at 04:39 PM.

  14. #94
    For some reason people often refer to "endgame" as main game, while in fact it is end of game, accented on farming same few places for ages. You no longer grow in power naturally, you don't have much left to explore. I am sorry, but I don't see main game in WoW as doing same DS or HoT 5-men for ages.

    And it is not for me only, for many people "endgame" is actually that, especially with LFR supplying raid for everyone to see, end of game.

    Tell me, if during levellling you were stuck in absolutely same zone for hours on daily basis for monthes to move your progress? No, it is always different atmosphere, specific to it's own zone. Do you have to kill same mob each day in hope he will finally drops what you want? No, you were adventuring and growing in power naturally by levelling up.

    Endgame is here so you had something to do when you are finished with your adventure (be that dinging 85 or first Deathwing LFR/normal kill). Heroic modes, RNG drops etc. are all made to make player to play longer when he is actually done with all content.

    WoW got stuck too much into max-level gear treadmill model. It was formerly RPG, which is around world, exploring, adventure, growth in power, now it is more about some max-level Arena PvE/PvP. Levelling process should at least have options to be slowed down, levelling penalties (from ratings/mana cost) should be removed, levelling zones should be given some more interesting factions etc., as many old players remember this game as something else than "ding 85 asap and farm DS LFR then Normal then HC for monthes till new 3 versions of Arena are released".

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    In this way, you provide incentive to do the scenario, and the scenario teaches you your abilities as you level by providing a trial by fire wherein you hit the ground running and learn through trial and error, what to use in what situations.
    You probably already realize this but I think it is very, very unlikely blizzard is going to put challenging content in the game that gives a useful reward. The entire 'cosmetic' reward for challenge dungeons makes that clear.

    Furthermore, I just don't think they are ever going to put something that ACTUALLY challenges the player to use various abilities with some skill. Can you imagine the old hunter class quest going live today?[COLOR="red"]
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2012-03-11 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #96
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    A simple solution could be that a check box at the character screen says something like; "1x Experience gain --- 0,5x Experience gain --- 0,25x Experience gain" or something of that sort. It should not pose any challenge for the developers to actually put in a multiplier into the equation.

    As to people saying that you're learning your class through leveling is rather weird. You start to learn your character when you're interacting with other players. Just leveling for 10 days /played you won't obtain awesome skills. What's going to increase your skills and awareness are groups and dungeons/raids. So I would rather see more group quests in the fashion of something you're immediately grouped with others upon accepting the quest (others on the same quest that have accepted it within a certain time frame and area restriction). There are so many ways to improve your "skills" within the game, and I would say leveling isn't a major part of that.

    What people tend to do during levelling of a new game is to develop their own way of doing things, something they might be working into their fingers. And by that it might be hard to "leave" that sort of gameplay when you finally find out that it's "wrong" or just to hard. Clicking vs. keybinding is a major part here. So many rarely uses keybindings (in the earlier days) when levelling their first ever toon within World of Warcraft. I were one of those clicking for months (or well, a mix between both clicking and keybinding) before I realized keybindings are far superior.

    I'll end it here, since my dinner is ready. But to sum it all up: Adding an option is a great idea, but forcing this upon everyone is a bad one.
    Last edited by Pancha; 2012-03-11 at 08:24 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    For some reason people often refer to "endgame" as main game, while in fact it is end of game, accented on farming same few places for ages. You no longer grow in power naturally, you don't have much left to explore. I am sorry, but I don't see main game in WoW as doing same DS or HoT 5-men for ages.
    Leveling (pre-2.3) used to have a very large /played replay value, probably could level over 4 toons (2 per faction) without too much quest duplication from 10--60, and then maybe a bit more duplication 60-70. the actual played time investment per toon was non-trivial as well.

    By eliminating the time investment necessity and even the need to leave a city at all for leveling, they effectively eliminated a substantial part of the game from the options players had.

    Of course, by making sure every player could have several max-level toons easily, they possibly have increased their value-added service revenue from xfer/factionchange/etc.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-11 at 08:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancha View Post
    A simple solution could be that a check box at the character screen says something like; "1x Experience gain --- 0,5x Experience gain --- 0,25x Experience gain" or something of that sort. It should not pose any challenge for the developers to actually put in a multiplier into the equation.
    they could also put 'instant 60' instant 70 instant 80 etc.

    then, given how they give free gear to the 80, it isn't a big leap to imagine the instant 60 getting dungeon set 1 (bring it back!), instant 70 dungeon set 3, etc. The dungeon set 2 questline doesn't meet modern standards of 'accessibility' and probably should have the whole line reduced to the difficulty of the first stage (15 gold and 15 winterspring drops). I guess no more 4-boss summoners.

    Since the game already has implement instant 80 with free gear, none of this is beyond the imaginable anymore, and I do in fact expect we will be seeing more instant level x toons with free gear in the future. What used to be a signature feature of private servers is now a blizzard feature.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2012-03-11 at 08:22 PM.

  18. #98
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedleyazg View Post
    It should be slowed down so new players can actually learn how to play the game.
    Indeed.

    And also, no matter how many tools you take off, guild, heirloom... you still rush areas and over level them.

    Lvl up should be, at least, 35-40% of the game, specially after a revamp... that should bring the world pvp back, also removing lfr, lfd and lfbg but that'¡s another point.

  19. #99
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It would be nice if they'd scale the price of this like they do the price of training, etc. I understand the whole thing with twinks but it's virtual money so if they're going to make you level before you're halfway through the zone, you should be able to do this cheaply. I do this from time to time, usually about every 10 levels, so I can track back for things I want to do that I missed.
    Or free! But cheaper would be nice too. xP

    What I'm hoping for is that someday they'll make it a UI option rather than having to go to an NPC. Having to go back to Stormwind/Orgrimmar is more annoying than the gold cost sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    New players don't level as fast as older players due to heirlooms and such. Go level with no guild and no heirlooms and tell me it's too fast.
    I've leveled tons of characters with no heirlooms or guild since Cataclysm came out and even without them I still outleveled zones pretty quickly.

  20. #100
    Epic! Peyj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panalfik View Post
    The low-level questing content just doesn't go in par with the current experience system and it feels too fast and rushed overall. All of the low-level areas have been revamped in Cata and it pains me that I can't fully experience their content, because I just keep outleveling everything. I always follow the questlines, never grind, do instances just one time to get the achievement and complete quests associated with them, and I still outlevel every single area I come to. And I don't mean just some slight overleveling. After some time I find ONLY grey quests in my questlog, which is disturbing. I talked with a lot of my friends about this concern, and they agree that something is off. This thing happens to people even when they attempt to minimize the experience flow by avoiding killing unnecessary NPCs.
    I agree. I decided to level an alt with zero heirlooms and no guild just to try and actually see an area through and it still didn't happen. The levels just absolutely fly by, and all your quests and mobs are grey before you can even do half of the area.

    Cata successfully turned me from an altoholic into someone who seriously struggles to play alts at all. There is so much wrong with 1-60 it's not even funny.
    Originally Posted by Tseric
    When you can understand how a group of belligerent and angry posters can drive away people from this game with an uncrafted and improvisational campaign of misery and spin-doctoring, then perhaps, you can understand the decisions I make.

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