Survival of the fittest

[Laize]

But Brawndo has what plants crave.

Lol. Brawndo.

[Deleted]

Darwin never said that natural selection was based on survival of the fittest.

What Darwin actually said was that, natural selection and evolution is driven by "survival of the most adaptable."

It's a common misquote which has lead to a lot of bad theories and practices.

[Rec]

Darwin never said that natural selection was based on survival of the fittest.

What Darwin actually said was that, natural selection and evolution is driven by "survival of the most adaptable."

It's a common misquote which has lead to a lot of bad theories and practices.

Excellent post, I forgot to mention this.

Further reading, for those interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

[Deleted]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need a zombie apocalypse. Sort out the thick from the thin.

The thick being fat people, so us thin people can run away whilst they get eaten.

[birdfly]

But what about emotional empathy? what about morality?

Do you all feel for others? how does that play in survival of the fittest?

I read somewhere that there are tribes of monkeys where the males are picking ticks from other males, (feminist quality) so the males are not trying to dominate.

Is that a survival of the fittest? i mean evolution breed male monkeys to be kind to each other, you never know.

[Laize]

But what about emotional empathy? what about morality?

Do you all feel for others? how does that play in survival of the fittest?

I read somewhere that there are tribes of monkeys where the males are picking ticks from other males, (feminist quality) so the males are not trying to dominate.

Is that a survival of the fittest? i mean evolution breed male monkeys to be kind to each other, you never know.

I wouldn't say male monkeys are kind to each other.

[Catta]

/sigh

This is my primary problem when i post, i'm never clear enough in my arguments, thus, i fail to deliver my message properly. Maybe because my main language is french and my english is not 100% perfect.

Oh well.

The human race survived because even though we were not the physicaly strongest, were are intelligent enough to adapt to surrounding threats through cunning and tools we were able to shape.

If there were a nuclear disaster and toxic wastes would ruin the atmosphere, humans would probably die, but not cockroaches. Etc.

What i mean is that the human, whether it be individualy or in society, evolves really slowly.

If there were to be a World War 3, only the ''fittest'' country would prevail: The ones with the better army and/or better weapons.

Another exemple of what remains of the current evolution: Each century, humans are becoming taller, why? taller humans with a stronger look usualy have a better time finding a mate, thus, the human race is becoming slightly taller each generation.

As for science, beside some improvements and some discovery, nothing groundbreaking as been discovered yet.

The reason why i talked about Jules Verne and Leonardo Da Vinci is because they were able to imagine things that were not even close to exist yet. Flying was considered impossible for humans until Leonardo Da Vinci brought up the idea. What about Jules Verne that could visualize spaceships almost a hundred years before they were even created.

Comparing humans to cockroaches now are we?

Humans have evolved quite quickly compared to other species - thing is... Once a creature fills a niche perfectly they dont NEED to evolve further hence why crocs and sharks look very similar to fossils

[Humungo]

Haha, of course survival of the fittest still exists, the definition of "Fit" has changed to who can survive in our society is all.

[Deleted]

Evolution is simply change. Any kind of change, good, bad, or neutral. Every time two humans reproduce, the resultant offspring has on average 2 - 3 new mutations that were not present in either parent. Most of these will be neutral, not effecting any functioning part of the offspring, but it is still a change. And this is happening to all organisms when they reproduce, so really it's impossible to say that any species ever stops evolving.

What you are talking about is evolution by natural selection. But you have to remember what is "doing" the selecting in natural selection. It is the environment in which the species in question lives and functions. As long as individuals in that environment have offspring who have offspring etc etc, then those individuals are as fit as a penguin in Antarctica or a lion in the Serengeti. We have altered our own environment, and created an environment with medicine and doctors and hygienic conditions and ample nutrition, etc. And we survive and reproduce very well in our environment. If you very quickly and very drastically change our environment, then yes, we could be in trouble. But the same could be said of any other organism on the planet. If the Serengeti was suddenly flooded and turned into a giant lake, you can bet lions wouldn't manage so well there. And failing to find any other suitable place that they could survive long enough to adapt, they could easily die out.

You adapt to the conditions of the present, not the past and not the future. The fact that you're alive and able to reproduce in present time is testament to that, as you clearly understand why that would be unlikely a few thousand years ago. The human population hasn't just "degraded" under the influence of technology. It did what all life does - evolve and adapt. Technology and medical care are part of the "environment" that we've adapted to. Yes we've shed a lot of our physical fitness, but that's because it's no longer the biggest determinant of our evolutionary fitness (the ability to produce offspring and pass on our genes). If/when the time comes where physical fitness is the major selector, we'll adapt in that direction (though not necessarily to where our ancestors used to be - possibly in an entirely new direction).

[Catta]

Evolution is simply change. Any kind of change, good, bad, or neutral. Every time two humans reproduce, the resultant offspring has on average 2 - 3 new mutations that were not present in either parent. Most of these will be neutral, not effecting any functioning part of the offspring, but it is still a change. And this is happening to all organisms when they reproduce, so really it's impossible to say that any species ever stops evolving.

Actually i believe its 7 new mutations - its not much but its not like they dont have the time

[Aristeia]

Well I can tell you never took a college course in evolution.

Evolution is just the descriptive theory of what actually occurs in nature, it is neither a "good" or "bad" thing, it is merely adaptation. So it's not something we EVER want to impose upon ourselves, because if we already adapt to our environment through other available means (technology for instance) then we have no need for adaptive pressures from the environment. Who's to say what will truly be advantageous traits in the future? We can't know and so probably having a more diverse population is best, perhaps stupidity will be a beneficial trait evolutionarily speaking in the future for our species, who can tell.

I think you very handily underestimate those "improvements" that we've accomplished with science in the past decades and simply go, "Hmph, the Wright brothers already invented the plane, all we've done is improve it, so pointless!"

[Fireslave]

"""In the past decades, there were no real evolution in science, only improvement in what we already had. Smaller and smaller computers that perform more than ever, Blu-ray, cars that consume less, etc.

Nothing new, just improvements."""


Is there something you want inventing? If so, I dont think anyone in this forum will stop you mister.

[MisterSheep]

Is there something you want inventing? If so, I dont think anyone in this forum will stop you mister.

I'm working on it =D

[Deleted]

unfortunately this isn't true, we haven't been around for a fraction of the time the dinosaurs were.

[------------------------------------------------------------------------] dinosaur life time
[---] humanity

quite sad when you think we may not even get as far as they did, and its not like they were much more than snarling beasts or peaceful herbivores

It is in fact true, everything that has happened was created to create us - and perhaps other self-aware beings around the universe. From the creation of the universe, to the forging of carbon in stars, to the countless lifeforms who slowly evolved and became more and more intelligent, we are the final product, there is nothing beyond us now, physically we can become stronger, but this is not a universe of survival, this is a universe of creation, we were created, we do not need to fight for survival anymore, now we need to fight for consciousness, for inner peace and understanding.

In the beginning there was oneness. Oeness split itself into two - the masculine and the feminine principle, radiation and absorption, expression and impression, then that split into an infinity of things and became the universe. Then the universe started to create the basis for life, forged in the furnace of stars.

And why? Because in the beginning there was oneness. And oneness cannot know itself, because it is one, it can be, but it cannot know. So it split itself, to know itself, and through humans who purified their mind of thoughts, consciousness flows through, oneness flows into a human, allowing oneness for the first time, to look upon itself through the eyes of a human. It is really a universal love story, and it continues until every particle of the universe has become self-aware and enligthened. Then it returns to oneness, and then what happens next, I have no idea.

[Aristeia]

It is in fact true, everything that has happened was created to create us - and perhaps other self-aware beings around the universe. From the creation of the universe, to the forging of carbon in stars, to the countless lifeforms who slowly evolved and became more and more intelligent, we are the final product, there is nothing beyond us now, physically we can become stronger, but this is not a universe of survival, this is a universe of creation, we were created, we do not need to fight for survival anymore, now we need to fight for consciousness, for inner peace and understanding.

Wishful thinking. Hubris at its finest.

[Deleted]

Wishful thinking. Hubris at its finest.

You see what you are, not what I am, remember that.

[Heathy]

Thinking the universe was created for humanity has got to be WAY more naive than thinking it wasn't. if we are superior beings then how have we simply multiplied, consumed and destroyed where as prehistoric life lived in harmony for millennia in its eco-system. The truth is man could disappear tomorrow, and the world and the rest of its life would basically get along just fine probably better..

[Malcho]

Survival of the fittest does exist.
It's going to happen faster than you think with the way we engineer against our planet.


Eventually, we will have subjected this world to so much abuse that it won't be able to sustain normal human life. Animals will start to die off, save for the miniscule amount who, by whatever random glitch, gain a favorable adaption. We will rush to accommodate the changes through technology, but the ball will begin rolling too fast for us to keep up. Eventually billions of humans will begin to die. If we are lucky, an amount of us will have a tolerance to our own engineered avalanche.

In the aftermath of all of this, it will come to the decisions of the survivors on whether to analyze and abandon conventions that brought them to this point, or to finish driving in the stake and cause the extinction of the humans.

Imagine all the power we hold right now. We are really approaching the end of it with the ability to nuke our own planet on purpose or by pure accident. No other creature can achieve this at the moment. Our planet has no collective care for us, not to personify it. At the very worst, we will die out long before we can obliterate it, and it will renew itself.

Then the next bright creature can develop the appetite for fossil fuel and pump our fossilized remains out of the ground.

[Aristeia]

You see what you are, not what I am, remember that.

I see you clearly believe that the universe was meant for us and that there will be nothing of note afterwards, to assume you know as much is quite naive and rather telling.

[Deleted]

Thinking the universe was created for humanity has got to be WAY more naive than thinking it wasn't. if we are superior beings then how have we simply multiplied, consumed and destroyed where as prehistoric life lived in harmony for millennia in its eco-system. The truth is man could disappear tomorrow, and the world and the rest of its life would basically get along just fine probably better..

Who said anything about superior? Your whole thinking is off.. There is no such thing as superior or inferior in the universe, as life is not meant to fight.

And about man disappearing tomorrow, I suggest you do some research into how many times earth and man kind has been threated to die from the countless asteriods and god knows what shit keeps flying at us from outer space, although they always manage to never hit.

The world wasn't created for HUMANS, humans was created for the UNIVERSE. And if there are other beings across the galaxies who are self-aware it is the same story, the whole big organism that is the universe has been set in motion to create life that had such advanced bio-intelligence that it could be able to channel consciousness to it's full extent. We are that intelligent life, and our job is to become vessels for consciousness, to bring the Oneness, or God, or Godliness, or Truth, or whatever word you want to call it, into the world.

---------- Post added 2012-03-11 at 10:37 PM ----------

I see you clearly believe that the universe was meant for us and that there will be nothing of note afterwards, to assume you know as much is quite naive and rather telling.

Whichever way you choose to protect your ignorance is up to you.