in defense of rehashs

[DarkTZeratul]

People really need to stop lumping Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub together. Zul'Aman was the poor kind of rehash - it's almost exactly the same dungeon, but updated for max level. Even though the final boss is "new," he has essentially the same mechanics as Zul'jin did. Zul'Gurub was the good kind of rehash - same terrain, completely different experience. Even the bosses that returned from the original version are almost nothing like the their level 60 incarnations.

[FiveOneTwo]

my only real problem with rehashing content is how it relates to the storyline.

Deadmines, Shadowfang Keep, and Zul'Gurub i have no problems with at all (deadmines in particular i really love) because they reflect the fact that it is now many years later than when we originally saw them, the old guys are dead, these guys are new, ect. Nefarian and Onyxia in BWD is another example that i think is "good" use of rehashing because they CLEARLY have been through hell and back and were restitched together with some seriously twisted necromancy and super strong eternium thread!

Naxxramas im indifferent about, the same goes for things like seeing Barron Geddon in Hyjal. blizzard has become very loose with their definition of "death" and "resurrection". the lich king seemingly had the power to not just raise undead, but continue to re-raise them infinitely and with their full minds and powers as they were when they were undead for the first time. they seem to loosely apply this same concept to elementals.

its a bit of a cop-out explanation in my oppinion, but seeing how ner'zuhl was incomparably powerful as a necromancer and they were already undead anyway i can live with it (just please lord dont go for round 3!)

the ones i HATE are the ones that show up as content that, storyline wise, is supposed to be relevant to our characters in the present time, yet dont reflect at all the fact that these people should already be dead.

like Zul'aman. everyone in there except for Daakara should for every logical reason be dead. long dead. yet here they are fully alive, not undead, and with no explanation as to how or why this could be.

this is my fear for the new SM and Scholo in Mists. im holding out hope because we know nothing about the storyline but at this point it unfortunately it seems that all of our old friends in the scarlet crusade are back, when they really should not be. scholo goes back to the naxx bit, because the lich king isnt raising undead but we know that gandling was still around after anderhol. and hes probably powerful enough to bring back a few minor minions of reasonable power. again i dont love it, but scholo was a cool place so i wont complain.

SM seems like it could be a PERFECT place to continue the very interesting story of Lillian Voss. so heres hoping that they choose to go that route!

[grandpab]

so let me get this straight... You want 0 rehash AND you want Blizz to do content faster? So I take it you've never had the same dinner twice? or watched the same sports team more than once? or sex more than once? or taken a shower more than once?

People repeat things all the time, the fact you have to do it ingame doesn't make it bad, it reflects life. I suppose we should just close Europe after that whole WWII thing, I mean its all rehash anyway right?

None of this is even relevant.

Personally, I don't give a shit what excuses they throw at us, as a customer I simply don't care about their methods, I expect results. Blizz is pissing all over any positive reputation they had with this kind of crap.

Rehashes are el cheapo ways to keep people entertained, there's really nothing more to it than that.

Edit: Can't believe there's even a thread proclaiming this shady business practice to be honourable or enjoyable.

Pretty much how I feel...I don't understand how people can just accept it so easily. Blizz takes the easy way out but nobody cares. I bet they get a riot out of the people that are so accepting of everything shady they do (like a cash shop in a p2p game), it's keeping them a lot richer than they deserve to be that's for sure.

W/e...it doesn't even matter and I don't really care, just thought I'd argue my opinion a little bit but it's pointless with peoples heads so far up Blizzs ass.

[Falrinn]

It's one of those things that can be done right or wrong.

When an instance is done over, it should feel like a continuation to the original instance story-wise. It should also have as many updated bosses and mechanics as possible.

ZG/ZA are an interesting case. Originally ZG was just going to be a standalone sequel to the events of the original ZG raid, and was so as late as the early builds of the PTR, and ZA wasn't going to be remade at all. However at some point Blizzard decided to make ZG chapter 1 of a new Zandalari storyline (which might of been created specifically for MoP), and remake ZA to compliment it and drive home the point of what the Zandalari were trying to do. The reason ZA was changed only slightly from the original was because Blizzard didn't make the decision to revamp it until much later then ZG. This means giving ZA a proper revamp was never a serious option since doing so would of demanded significantly delaying an already-finished ZG.

[Roose]

Blizz is too lazy!: You see, back in BC it was much easier to make anything new. models were not that great, textures were low res, many many many pieces of gear were reskinned vanilla gear, et cetera.

Nowadays everything is much more detailed, and all gear is all new.

That is where I stopped. BC gear the most transmogged gear there is. It is better than the stuff they do now and the statistics prove that.

I quit Cata (1st time) at the ZA/ZG patch. Tried them and it made me sick to know that was what my subscription money was going towards.

More rehashing is my #1 problem with WoW right now. Not saying they are lazy, just that I think rehashed content sucks.

[FiveOneTwo]

That is where I stopped. BC gear the most transmogged gear there is. It is better than the stuff they do now and the statistics prove that.

I quit Cata at the ZA/ZG patch. Tried them and it made me sick to know that was what my subscription money was going towards.

More rehashing is my #1 problem with WoW right now.

BC has some awesome gear, no question. but the reason BC gear is the most transmogged gear is probably because of how easy it is to obtain. most of it can be soloed and their pvp sets were just recolors of the equivalent PvE sets, and at their super low honor cost it is pretty simple to complete a cohesive set.

and even more in favor of BC for transmog gear is that ~90% of the dungeon gear is just recolors of the vanilla teir 1-2 sets. if you like to use transmogging as a way to fill your downtime and rarely plan it in advance, soloability is a huge plus. and with lvl 60 onyxia gone and BWL having an unsoloable first boss due to fight mechanics, the BC recolors make for a perfect compromise.

you can get wraths teir 10 with justice points, but beyond that, obtaining any cool raid gear from level 80 requires a consolidated effort of at least a handful of people. its not hard by any stretch, but definitely lacks the impromptu convenience of BC content.

the second reason would be aesthetics. which is somewhat of a moot point in this discussion because even though you may like the look of the BC sets better, its really impossible to argue that there was any more or less work put into them than the Wrath teir and pvp sets.

[checking facts]

That is where I stopped. BC gear the most transmogged gear there is. It is better than the stuff they do now and the statistics prove that.

I quit Cata (1st time) at the ZA/ZG patch. Tried them and it made me sick to know that was what my subscription money was going towards.

More rehashing is my #1 problem with WoW right now. Not saying they are lazy, just that I think rehashed content sucks.

I never said BC gear was bad, but most BC dungeon gear are recolors from vanilla tier sets. a recolor is easy to make. no new models, no drawing it from scratch, just photoshop the old textures and it's done!

[clevin]

The truth is the player base LOVES cool retro content. Haters call it rehash because they are grasping for something negative to say.

No, we don't like it because it becomes the only new content in some patches. ZA/ZG for example (even given that ZG was substantially reworked). If a content patch has 3 new instances and 1 is a redo, eh. If it has 2 new instances and they're BOTH redos? That's worse.

The other reason I dislike them is that it feels like a copout creatively - "we can't think of any cool new stuff, we know you liked this instance... HERE! Catch!!" But face it - we're paying the equivalent of a AAA game every 4 months... why can't we get some great original content for that money?

Finally, consider this - aside from ZA every single redo has been from vanilla. SM? Scholo? SFK? VC? Naxx? Ony? ALL from vanilla. I fully expect to see Kara 2.0 soon.

[Gaios]

I don't mind rehashing. I get to revisit all those cool places from my own history in Azeroth. I really was pumped about the ZA/ZG-rework. Yes, ZA stayed basically the same, but I didn't mind. The ZA boss design was far more advanced than the ZG one, so it's only natural to give ZG a lot more work. And if they are reusing the scarlet monastery for MoP ... please do so. I love the monastery just as much as I enjoyed running Shadowfang Keep. And if there is ever the possibility then please redo Karazhan with maybe two wings for 5 players. Even today I take the trip down there almost once a week, because the raid is just awesome.

Yes, rehashing is a fast way to create content and I that's fine by me. Rehashed dungeons get thrown in the mix and the variety of available dungeons increases. The three newest dungeons in 4.3 were no rehashes and I'm already bored of them, because there are just 3. Throw in 2-3 heroic versions of old dungeons and I would have been a happy little camper.

[Illuminance]

In an ideal world, Blizzard would not resort to rehashing, but instead give us interesting and novel environments to explore. I remember the first times I walked into Stratholme, Karazhan, and Scarlet Monastery, and how awe-struck I was. I would rather Blizzard focus their creative energies on showing me fun, new places to explore, because I feel that rehashing environments is simply a way for them to cut corners.

[checking facts]

The other reason I dislike them is that it feels like a copout creatively - "we can't think of any cool new stuff, we know you liked this instance... HERE! Catch!!" But face it - we're paying the equivalent of a AAA game every 4 months... why can't we get some great original content for that money?

it's not about thinking. they think about expansions way before time. it's about doing it. even I can think about some cool dungeons that could get into the game, but the problem is when there's just no more you can do to make those things see the azerothian daylight lol

cata was tough because so many resources were put into remaking the old world. they could imagina some new dungeons, but would there be enough time to make them? of course not. remaking the old world was a massive effort.

[Scewts]

If you honestly believe the primary reason Blizzard rehashes things is because "some people have not experienced it, yet!", you're a sucker. Not really any other way of putting it. That's pr spin-doctoring that you gobbled right up. They didn't rehash zg/za because people hadn't experienced it, they did it because it was convenient and easy and way cheaper than creating something new(see: lazy). And yeah, you're right. ZA/ZG weren't the focus. At all. It's almost as if they just "rehashed" two old raids into filler content and invented some bogus "TEH ZANDALARIS ARE BACK AMG" bs so it'd "fit".

And you know what? In dragon soul, 2 of the bosses are relatively new - spine and madness. The environments are all recycled locations from previous raids/locations. What? You think they wanted more people to experience EoE and Wyrmrest? Oh please. lol

[clevin]

it's not about thinking. they think about expansions way before time. it's about doing it. even I can think about some cool dungeons that could get into the game, but the problem is when there's just no more you can do to make those things see the azerothian daylight lol

cata was tough because so many resources were put into remaking the old world. they could imagina some new dungeons, but would there be enough time to make them? of course not. remaking the old world was a massive effort.

And any of that is the players' issue... how? Right, it's not. And let's not pretend that the entire creative team did the old world revamp - which, btw, was done at launch.

[checking facts]

And any of that is the players' issue... how? Right, it's not. And let's not pretend that the entire creative team did the old world revamp - which, btw, was done at launch.

how much time do you think it takes to make a dungeon nowadays? firelands and well of eternity were probably already in development when cata launched.

you can't have a new dungeon if the teams who make zones are too occupied. and they redid the entire world.

what do you do than?

you get an already existing raid and put new stuff in it.

but that's a rehash!

oooohhhh, now I see

[Scunosi]

If you honestly believe the primary reason Blizzard rehashes things is because "some people have not experienced it, yet!", you're a sucker. Not really any other way of putting it. That's pr spin-doctoring that you gobbled right up. They didn't rehash zg/za because people hadn't experienced it, they did it because it was convenient and easy and way cheaper than creating something new(see: lazy). And yeah, you're right. ZA/ZG weren't the focus. At all. It's almost as if they just "rehashed" two old raids into filler content and invented some bogus "TEH ZANDALARIS ARE BACK AMG" bs so it'd "fit".

And you know what? In dragon soul, 2 of the bosses are relatively new - spine and madness. The environments are all recycled locations from previous raids/locations. What? You think they wanted more people to experience EoE and Wyrmrest? Oh please. lol

No one said they redid the Zuls because people didn't experience. You're about one expansion late; they clearly stated that was one of the points of Wrath's Naxx. The Zul update was supposed to be filler, mostly fun, but also a lead for new stories. Not everything has to be started and ended in one expansion. Unfortunately the majority of the playerbase seems to not read series much as anything not wrapped up neatly for them by the time an expansion ends sends them into a frothing rage.
Remember Alleria and Turalyon in BC? Everyone wondered where they were, and were zomg angry when we didn't find them. That's a lead in for new material later, for Blizz to use when they see fit. Sure, it would've "worked" in BC, but why throw all the awesome stuff into one expansion? What does that leave you with for later ones? They can't just keep retelling WC3 after all, even though some people seem to so desperately want that.

Also, complaining about art assets is pretty lame I think. So a model was recycled, who cares. Does it mean the fight is someone worse? From what I've been hearing most of the DS fights involve some pretty fancy mechanics we hadn't seen before. Sure you could argue "it's just another dance," but then if you want to go that basic 99% of fights these days are. And it's not like they were just throwing in random props to fill space. All areas used were highly relevant to the lore and the fight at hand. Were you expecting Deathwing to somehow quit with the motif his own minions used? That would be much more jarring than "amg it's another crab man, this fight is so recycled."

[Artravus]

I'm sorry, I like most rehashes, but by doing them, Blizzard IS being lazy. They do it so the art team can have more time to reskin mounts and companions so they can rake in some more cash.

[clevin]

how much time do you think it takes to make a dungeon nowadays? firelands and well of eternity were probably already in development when cata launched.

you can't have a new dungeon if the teams who make zones are too occupied. and they redid the entire world.

what do you do than?

you get an already existing raid and put new stuff in it.

but that's a rehash!

oooohhhh, now I see

Oh please. You're one of these that thinks the zone redo meant the entire team couldn't do anything else. That's BS, esp for the 4.2 and 4.3 patches. And again... WHY DO I CARE? The topic is redos... there are plenty of other threads where you can bitch about how the zone reworking killed cata.

No one said they redid the Zuls because people didn't experience. You're about one expansion late; they clearly stated that was one of the points of Wrath's Naxx. The Zul update was supposed to be filler, mostly fun, but also a lead for new stories.

Then don't make them the only new 5 mans in their patch... or make NEW troll instances.

And the troll instances weren't the only redos in Cata. We also got SFK and VC as redos. 4 of the instances this xpac were recycled places. Of those, VC and ZG were somewhat nicely redone. ZA was the level 70 raid scaled down and with Zuljin replaced.

[mistuhbull]

Oh please. You're one of these that thinks the zone redo meant the entire team couldn't do anything else. That's BS, esp for the 4.2 and 4.3 patches. And again... WHY DO I CARE? The topic is redos... there are plenty of other threads where you can bitch about how the zone reworking killed cata.


Then don't make them the only new 5 mans in their patch... or make NEW troll instances.

And the troll instances weren't the only redos in Cata. We also got SFK and VC as redos. 4 of the instances this xpac were recycled places. Of those, VC and ZG were somewhat nicely redone. ZA was the level 70 raid scaled down and with Zuljin replaced.

The Zul's weren't supposed to be their own patch. They were supposed to come with Firelands, but Blizzard saw the monumental bitching about how long Flands was taking so they tossed out the Zuls early.

[Conscious]

The largest most successful MMO in the world that should have the most resources and they rehash so much...Shouldn't really be any excuses.

Going to go with this.

Rehashing is either sheer laziness, or greed. I just don't see any gray area with the situation.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The largest most successful MMO in the world that should have the most resources and they rehash so much...Shouldn't really be any excuses.

Oh you just wait, it'll be the same for "the messiah" GW2 eventually, and already is. They don't have 100% new stuff and lore and whatnot. Still an amazing game according to Beta players (most of them).

Didn't you read the post, or did you just see a WoW thread and decided to bite?

On topic:

I like the reuse of content, it's to be expected of such a huge game that's been around for so many years. As long as they keep the high quality of the content and make tweaks and it doesn't remove old mounts and such (like from ZG, but as HC before nerfs it was a lot of fun still!) then I'm all for it as filler content between patches, or to bring an interesting story along. I can't wait to see what's become of Lilian Voss and eventually the Koltira story and especially Scholomance has always been a favourite of mine.

If they would redo Karazhan and bring it back as an elite HC (5 people but too hard and too long for pugs) or even a 90 raid, I'd be one happy camper!

All in all...some people just HAVE to whine, they look at the negative and overlook the positive completely. They have such a deep running bitterness toward Blizzard or whatever that they look for anything to jump at and they just cannot grasp how ANYONE could disagree or think that what they do is good and high quality.